Jax payout

[chipperd]

I just got back from Jacksonville. I competed in the amatuer tournament and finished in the top ten. I didn't even cover half my expenses. If I have gotten 3rd place, I would barely broken even, in a field of 91 players. I only live 2 hours away. There was almost $9000 in the pot, and it only paid back about $6000. That is 1/3 taken out! I also can't believe the condition of the tables, this was supposed to be a "US Amatuer Open". The tournaments seem to be paying less and less, If billiard companys want to promote the game, they need to start adding a little "cheese" to these tournaments.

 

[cuechick]

What was the condition of the tables and what kind of tables were they?
They were brought in for the event?

 

[chipperd]

tables

What was the condition of the tables and what kind of tables were they?
They were brought in for the event?

They were 8ft oldhausens. They cloth was actually coming off some of the rails, and almost all the table seem like they were used to practice sandwedge shots, because of all the divots.

 

[Black-Balled]

I just got back from Jacksonville. I competed in the amatuer tournament and finished in the top ten. I didn't even cover half my expenses. If I have gotten 3rd place, I would barely broken even, in a field of 91 players. I only live 2 hours away. There was almost $9000 in the pot, and it only paid back about $6000. That is 1/3 taken out! I also can't believe the condition of the tables, this was supposed to be a "US Amatuer Open". The tournaments seem to be paying less and less, If billiard companys want to promote the game, they need to start adding a little "cheese" to these tournaments.

You got paid what your finish was worth...maybe what you need to do is play better...

Would it have bothered you so much if you finished outside the $?

 

[Nine Ball]

I just got back from Jacksonville. I competed in the amatuer tournament and finished in the top ten. I didn't even cover half my expenses. If I have gotten 3rd place, I would barely broken even, in a field of 91 players. I only live 2 hours away. There was almost $9000 in the pot, and it only paid back about $6000. That is 1/3 taken out! I also can't believe the condition of the tables, this was supposed to be a "US Amatuer Open". The tournaments seem to be paying less and less, If billiard companys want to promote the game, they need to start adding a little "cheese" to these tournaments.

I went to the 1st amateur event they ever had 3 years ago I believe at the hotel in JAX..

There was a nice little write up about it.. You should read it.. Guaranteed the tables were worse than what you played on at this one and money was being taken from that as well.. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=33103

I confronted them about it as well as a few other players I got involved and in the end they put a little money back in but not as much as they took out.. Anyway, I guarantee you that event was by a mile worse than this one. Not to mention that there seemed to be a problem with the pro event they were running as well.. Money problem.. Best of luck in your future decisions on tournaments.

 

[Rubyron]

I just got back from Jacksonville. I competed in the amatuer tournament and finished in the top ten. I didn't even cover half my expenses. If I have gotten 3rd place, I would barely broken even, in a field of 91 players. I only live 2 hours away. There was almost $9000 in the pot, and it only paid back about $6000. That is 1/3 taken out! I also can't believe the condition of the tables, this was supposed to be a "US Amatuer Open". The tournaments seem to be paying less and less, If billiard companys want to promote the game, they need to start adding a little "cheese" to these tournaments.

They kept 1/3 of the entry fees? WTF? Sounds like a rip off to me.

 

[Nine Ball]

Double posted, So deleted here.......

 

[uwate]

The amateur event for the last three years that Dragon Promotions has run has ended with the same feedback from the players. Way too much money taken out and bad equipment.

It does seem that all the amateur events and many of the pro events in the USA do not seem to happen unless the players pay for the costs of conducting the event out of the prize money. Take the Super Billiards Expo for example. They NEVER EVER post the prize payouts and the # of entries. I doubt the CW will post the #of entries and the prize payout to the Amateur events that went down this weekend. Its too obvious then how much was taken out and thats not good for them to publicize. It is what it is, there is no free lunch and no free pool tournaments. Someone has to bear the cost and in this case it was the players.

There are few amateur events with $6k in the pot so maybe that is the bright side of this.

 

[chipperd]

getting bashed

You got paid what your finish was worth...maybe what you need to do is play better...

Would it have bothered you so much if you finished outside the $?

I rarely get on this forum and complain about anything, because no matter what somebody like you has to bash anything that is being said. If you think that playing in a 91 player field, and having to finish in the top "2" to make bank is fair, you need to get your head examined. I never bash anyone on this forum, but you want to bark at me over my opinion for an unfair payout? If you will watch what the other normal people are replying, they agree with me. What is wrong with people like you?????????

 

[ScottW]

Chipperd,

Maybe some more info from your end would help. Your initial post is full of "almosts" and "abouts" and non-specifics about what your expenses are.

Beyond that - is it not a fairly normal thing that only the first two or three places in tournaments pay enough to cover the player's costs to play in them? Especially when it comes to an amateur event?

 

[chipperd]

Chipperd,

Maybe some more info from your end would help. Your initial post is full of "almosts" and "abouts" and non-specifics about what your expenses are.

Beyond that - is it not a fairly normal thing that only the first two or three places in tournaments pay enough to cover the player's costs to play in them? Especially when it comes to an amateur event?

I know, and your right, I am just venting. I just wish something would get done about it. The problem is, the people involved in running the tournaments know that they will still get a substancial amount of players, even though the are robbing the pots. It is totally up to the players, to make them change these patterns. My understanding is that Florida law says that a percentage has to be added in any Florida tournament, about a third. Instead, they took out a third.

 

[uwate]

So what were the payouts? did you see to what level did the tournament payout to? any specific numbers?

 

[jay helfert]

I've always felt that it is important to let players know where their entry fee money is going. How much goes into the purse and how much goes to green fees or whatever. That way there usually is no complaining afterwards.

I don't believe in gouging the players entry money. I have often seen where an outrageous amount is taken from them before anything goes into the prize fund. This to me is very wrong. And it has been the case for years in several high profile amateur events that I'm aware of. For instance I'm aware of one such event where many hundreds of players pay a $75 entry fee and the first prize is always $5,000 and second usually about $2,000. Total pay out is in the neighborhood of $25,000 when well over double that was collected in entry fees.

I've always been pretty good on figuring out the numbers and when I see stuff like that, it bugs me. And I suspect many amateur players can do the addition as well. Number one, a tournament director should make it clear how much money is going into the purse from your entry fee. This gouging of players seems to be the norm in many events across the country. Once again I think the players can vote with their wallets and choose not to participate when they see something like this going on.

One reason the regional events we do out here are popular is because the players know they are getting a fair shake for their buck. We do four events a year at Hollywood Billiards, all with $3,000 or more in added money. The entry fee is $75 for each one, and we take out $15 for green fees (registration). And that's it! The other $60 goes into the purse. So if we have 100 players, $6,000 is added to the $3,000 and the total purse is $9,000. First place might be $2,500 in a scenario like this. Not bad for $75. You could probably finish in the top 32 and get back over $100 as well.

I've always believed that if you treat players right, they will support your events. In the above scenario, the room collected $1,500, so they got back half their added money from the green fees. From that they can pay the TD $500, and keep $1,000. Everyone ends up happy including the players!

 

[chipperd]

So what were the payouts? did you see to what level did the tournament payout to? any specific numbers?

First was 1600 and some change, second was about 700, third was 450. And then it just kept droping off. I got seventh and won 200. There was only $100 difference between seventh and 24th!

 

[thomba02]

First was 1600 and some change, second was about 700, third was 450. And then it just kept droping off. I got seventh and won 200. There was only $100 difference between seventh and 24th!

sounds like everybody there got shafted

 

[ScottW]

First was 1600 and some change, second was about 700, third was 450. And then it just kept droping off. I got seventh and won 200. There was only $100 difference between seventh and 24th!

So 91 players, and they paid at least 24 places? That's over a quarter of the field getting paid... and what was the entry fee?

 

[chipperd]

payouts

I've always felt that it is important to let players know where their entry fee money is going. How much goes into the purse and how much goes to green fees or whatever. That way there usually is no complaining afterwards.

I don't believe in gouging the players entry money. I have often seen where an outrageous amount is taken from them before anything goes into the prize fund. This to me is very wrong. And it has been the case for years in several high profile amateur events that I'm aware of. For instance I'm aware of one such event where many hundreds of players pay a $75 entry fee and the first prize is always $5,000 and second usually about $2,000. Total pay out is in the neighborhood of $25,000 when well over double that was collected in entry fees.

I've always been pretty good on figuring out the numbers and when I see stuff like that, it bugs me. And I suspect many amateur players can do the addition as well. Number one, a tournament director should make it clear how much money is going into the purse from your entry fee. This gouging of players seems to be the norm in many events across the country. Once again I think the players can vote with their wallets and choose not to participate when they see something like this going on.

One reason the regional events we do out here are popular is because the players know they are getting a fair shake for their buck. We do four events a year at Hollywood Billiards, all with $3,000 or more in added money. The entry fee is $75 for each one, and we take out $15 for green fees (registration). And that's it! The other $60 goes into the purse. So if we have 100 players, $6,000 is added to the $3,000 and the total purse is $9,000. First place might be $2,500 in a scenario like this. Not bad for $75. You could probably finish in the top 32 and get back over $100 as well.

I've always believed that if you treat players right, they will support your events. In the above scenario, the room collected $1,500, so they got back half their added money from the green fees. From that they can pay the TD $500, and keep $1,000. Everyone ends up happy including the players!

You are exactly right. I played the florida amatuer tour, and realized instanly they were robbing the pots, I could even pay my expenses for a first place finish. Please let me know when Hollywood billiards is having another event like you mentioned, and I will be more than happy to play in it.

 

[Black-Balled]

I rarely get on this forum and complain about anything, because no matter what somebody like you has to bash anything that is being said. If you think that playing in a 91 player field, and having to finish in the top "2" to make bank is fair, you need to get your head examined. I never bash anyone on this forum, but you want to bark at me over my opinion for an unfair payout? If you will watch what the other normal people are replying, they agree with me. What is wrong with people like you?????????

I gotalotta wrong with me, but it isn't seen here on AZB!

Prize money is just like any other choice- take it or not, things can always be better or worse, etc...

I am torn- I like $, but know tours do not exist to provide financial support to the top 4% of finishers- they are businesses that must support themselves and continually grow...

I have heard lots of complaints the past few years from folks who have done the (entry-fee+added money/ payout) math. See prior paragraph.

 

[chipperd]

entry fees

So 91 players, and they paid at least 24 places? That's over a quarter of the field getting paid... and what was the entry fee?

The entry was $100, if you signed up when you got there, and 10 dollars cheaper if you called ahead of time, but there wasn't many of early entries. I know they paid a quarter of the field, but they still took out a third of the money.

 

[jay helfert]

One other tourney I was involved in for many years was the U.S. Bar Table Championships. The entry fee was always $125 in each division, with $25 being a registration fee, and $100 going into the purse. There was $10,000 Added to each division! We would get fields of well over 100 players in each division. In fact the last year I did the event (2006) we got 169 players in 9-Ball and 224 in the Eight ball.

This created big purses for the players, and we were able to pay fairly deep into the field, with a first prize of $6,000 in each division! Again, not bad for a $125 entry fee. I did this event for 13 years before turning it over to Mark Griffin and the BCAPL. The fields continued to grow in the years that I produced it. I think the players knew they were getting some bang for their buck. You could finish 7-8th in each division and win back $2,000 total ($1,000 per division). Your expenses, including entry fees, might be $500-600 total. The rooms were cheap ($35/dble), and it was only 5 days total for both events.

So a player only had to score a top ten in one division to make back his nut. Not easy but doable. And even a couple of cashes usually got you about even on your expenses. These events worked all those years because the players knew they were being treated fairly.