Jay Helfert, re: Gary Spaeth

[jay helfert]

If I wasnt so visable on the internet forums I probably wouldnt squawk, but I never seem to get a plug in the bank area from you. When it comes to top bankers, you keep leaving me out. So let me set the record straight.

Gary and I never played for money. I was headed downhill then and he was on the rise. However, in a very contentious bank tournament with almost every bank champ in there except Bugs (he was in jail overnight), Gary beat me in the finals 23 to 21. Jason Miller and Brumback were too current for me to compete with. But I had my day with Wade Crane in Johnston City, spotting him 9 to 8 and banking 9 and out the last game before he pulled up. Jarvis I beat all his life before we had to quit playing because of all the sh*t he pulled to keep from paying off the last time we played.

James Youngblood Brown suffered many strummings at my hands (he came out ahead about 20% of the time) Varner would never play until deep into his rise and my down slide.

The last time I played Sigel was during the filming of the Color of Money, I beat him three in a row, banking 8 and out the last game. He quit and we went to dinner.

I beat Buddy banking on the bar table in Johnston City (the only year they had one), after that he would only play 8 to 7 for many years. However, I did not have much success with the 8 to 7 game. We played even in the 80s and I lost twice.

Unbelievably, I had phenomenal success with Cannonball lefty Chapman. Every time we played, I played my absolute best and beat him 80% of the time.

Donny Anderson, who played almost as good as anybody suffered an 8 game strum at Bensingers in the 70s. I mentioned this win someplace on the forums once and Donnie personally called me up on the phone to contest my claim. Donnie had a case of pool player senility, whereby you only forget all the losers. Donnie finished his rant with the claim that he had only lost 5 times in his 50 year career anyway.

Tony Fargo and I only played twice and he lost both times.

Jimmy Fusco and I never played, and as far at the banking devil, Truman Hogue went, I have no shame saying I ducked him -- as did just about everybody else. Truman, like Bugs instilled a sense of dread in me.

I also had no problem ducking CornBread Red playing even banks.

Finally, I played Ronnie in Big Mama's in the early 70s 9 to 7 for $1500. The session ended incomplete, when he called a ridiculous foul on me when I was banking out.

So you see Jaybird, I hate to have to be this contentious, but your opinion is held in too high of an esteem around these forums for me to allow this obvious oversight on your part to go uncorrected. I'm sure you just forgot, thank you very much. If not, then you can consider yourself historically enlightened.

Beard

You're the best Freddie! I'm still 1-0 against you though! I hope you haven't forgotten our little match. :wink:

Freddie I always give you props for your books and DVD's. By far the best stuff ever produced on Bank Pool with no close second. You must have missed them or just don't want to acknowledge that I recommended you.

I'm sorry if I didn't rate you as high as you'd like, but I never saw you at your best in Chi town. Only that one match with Medina, which was pretty hotly contested. But if you try to tell me you schooled Bugs and broke even with Taylor I'll begin to wonder about you. If you did actually beat Cannonball anywhere close to his prime I'm very impressed. He was a damn good one, but did drink on occasion, which was his downfall more than once. I smoked some weed with him once. He was a funny motherfcker. Of course you and I shared a doobie or two ourselves. You might have been a speed or two funnier.

Getting the best of Donny Anderson (even in Chicago) is also quite impressive. He had a lot to do with making Gary the banker he became. I'm glad you drew the line at Truman. He was a FREAK at Banks. Taylor loved little Truman and treated him like his lost little boy.

Scoring a win at Banks against Tony Fargo is also quite a feat. Pretty impressive list of victims you put up there. ALL good Bankers! You didn't look for any soft action did you?

 

[CrossSideLarry]

Granpa Spaeth

Most people don't know that Gary Spaeth's grandpa, aka, "Northside Eddie Spaeth" was an awesome player and he taught his son, Joey Spaeth how to play. No one could come close to Eddie's speed in the 1940's and 50's. He played at Mergard's bowling alley in Northside, a tough subdivision of Cincinnati, Ohio. My dad bowled three nights a week at Mergard's and took me with him. I was 11 years old then and never was questioned when I would walk back to the pool area while my dad bowled. Eddie, Joey and Gary... what a fitting threesome to personify the old adage, "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree"

I hope someone reads this and can write something about Eddie Spaeth. I'm sure he beat the best of his era on more than one occassion including for sure, Cornbread Red, Nine ball Harry Sexton, aka "Poochy" and countless others

In 1967 after getting out of the military, I would often play in the monday night nine ball tournament at Western Bowl in Western Hills, Cincinnati. Balcomino assisted the tournament director and was always woofing at someone, usually trying to get a bet down. I remember one Monday night when Joey Spaeth was in the finals with a black guy who was a very good player. You could not get a place to stand anywhere as they were four deep around the final table. The match went hill-hill until Joey ran out the last rack to win the match.

I couldn't help but notice a clean well dressed looking guy who was standing outside the entry into the pool room. After a few minutes of staring at him, I realized who it was... Eddie Spaeth. I was surprised to see him leave without coming in to congratulate his son, Joey on his win?

It is my understanding that Sherm at one time was considering doing a commemorative series of Joey and Gary Spaeth cues. I would hope he would add Eddie in that series. I would be the first to buy!


Cross-Side-Larry


"Learn from the best, and beat the rest"

 

[cuesmith]

You're the best Freddie! I'm still 1-0 against you though! I hope you haven't forgotten our little match. :wink:

Freddie I always give you props for your books and DVD's. By far the best stuff ever produced on Bank Pool with no close second. You must have missed them or just don't want to acknowledge that I recommended you.

I'm sorry if I didn't rate you as high as you'd like, but I never saw you at your best in Chi town. Only that one match with Medina, which was pretty hotly contested. But if you try to tell me you schooled Bugs and broke even with Taylor I'll begin to wonder about you. If you did actually beat Cannonball anywhere close to his prime I'm very impressed. He was a damn good one, but did drink on occasion, which was his downfall more than once. I smoked some weed with him once. He was a funny motherfcker. Of course you and I shared a doobie or two ourselves. You might have been a speed or two funnier.

Getting the best of Donny Anderson (even in Chicago) is also quite impressive. He had a lot to do with making Gary the banker he became. I'm glad you drew the line at Truman. He was a FREAK at Banks. Taylor loved little Truman and treated him like his lost little boy.

Scoring a win at Banks against Tony Fargo is also quite a feat. Pretty impressive list of victims you put up there. ALL good Bankers! You didn't look for any soft action did you?

Freddy I have to give you props too. I don't mention you much because we just didn't cross paths much back in the day. You and Gary played that one time (that I know of) in the tourney and I did tell that story a couple of times. lol You played very well in that tourney and knew all the moves to keep Gary out of his "comfort range". I now have a new found respect for you having purchased your "Banks That Don't Go, But Do" series. Having spent many years around top flight bank pool action I've seen pretty much all the shots before, but never could anyone I knew explain the shots in a way that made sense. Gary could make the shots but wasn't a good teacher at all. He often didn't understand why he needed to use a certain english to make a shot work, only that he had to use that english, from years of hitting them certain ways and observing the results or having been told by Joey or Donny or maybe even you when he was a kid, I wasn't around pool then. I've recommended to several people that they pick up your DVD's when they've told me they needed help with their banks, and will continue to do so! I also attend the One Pocket/Bank Pool Hall of Fame dinner at the DCC every year, usually with Danny. I will always remember those nights fondly. The stories and comraderie about brings tears to my eyes sometimes and you are always one of the most interesting story tellers there, and that's saying something because there are some beauts! I also appreciate your contributions to the forums, to your fans and to the sport in general. I wish you well in all you do. If you're ever passing through Cincinnati, please give me a shout and stop by! Danny D calls my place his "home away from home" and he'll tell you we have a good time when ever he comes. Billy Carrelli is over a couple of times a week too and I'm sure he'd like to get together and swap war stories too. Later Buddy!

 

[freddy the beard]

That's better, Jaybird

You're the best Freddie! I'm still 1-0 against you though! I hope you haven't forgotten our little match. :wink:

Freddie I always give you props for your books and DVD's. By far the best stuff ever produced on Bank Pool with no close second. You must have missed them or just don't want to acknowledge that I recommended you.

I'm sorry if I didn't rate you as high as you'd like, but I never saw you at your best in Chi town. Only that one match with Medina, which was pretty hotly contested. But if you try to tell me you schooled Bugs and broke even with Taylor I'll begin to wonder about you. If you did actually beat Cannonball anywhere close to his prime I'm very impressed. He was a damn good one, but did drink on occasion, which was his downfall more than once. I smoked some weed with him once. He was a funny motherfcker. Of course you and I shared a doobie or two ourselves. You might have been a speed or two funnier.

Getting the best of Donny Anderson (even in Chicago) is also quite impressive. He had a lot to do with making Gary the banker he became. I'm glad you drew the line at Truman. He was a FREAK at Banks. Taylor loved little Truman and treated him like his lost little boy.

Scoring a win at Banks against Tony Fargo is also quite a feat. Pretty impressive list of victims you put up there. ALL good Bankers! You didn't look for any soft action did you?

Seriously, thank you for your "retraction?" I knew you were going to bring up that pounding for $500 a game I took against Danny Medina on my home court, with you in with Danny, and then that time when you "drizzled out " on me at Derby City. As you have already noticed, I have a touch of that pool players Alzheimer's, just like Donny Anderson, whereby you only forget the losers.
Lucky for you, you werent in with Danny the next time we played a few months later at Akron? or Toledo?, I forgot which tourn. when I gained revenge. Eight in a row for $200 a game (we were both betting our own). Danny broke it down with the most delicious pool compliment I ever got, "I cant beat you playing bank pool." Jay, you knew how cocky and confident Danny was, so you know what it took for him to say that.

Cannonball was my hero when I was a kid. He was the first guy I ever seen bank 8 and out (on Danny Jones), so I was always sky high when we played and he was usually a little oiled. He did imbibe a bit, as you well know. He also, as did Javenly Youngblood Washington, spend a few vacations in the booby hatch.

Excerpt from my book The GosPool:
Some Great Black Players That I Knew:
John "Cannonball Lefty" Chapman from Chicago's West Side. He played all games, including a smattering of Three-Cushion Billiards. This is how he would warm up before a match: He had such a supple body he would roll up into a ball on the floor; knees up against his chest, head between his legs, arms around his ankles. You could have rolled him down a hill. "Mexican Johnny" Vasquez used to go to the West Side and play Lefty bank pool. I once asked how Lefty played him, and what kind of handicap was involved. Johnny replied that Lefty spotted him 14 to 8 playing banks on a 4' x 8' pool table. I gasped. I couldn't believe anybody on earth could give a journeyman player like Johnny that much spot. I asked him, "How the hell could you possibly lose getting that much weight?" Johnny replied in his inimitable style, "Sheet, man, dat ain't sucha good game. Lefty git a shot, he bank 'leven, bank twelve, bank ten."
Javenly "Youngblood" Washington from Chicago's South Side, the original Youngblood. He was one of the all-time great bank-pool players. Besides his fabulous pool skills, 'Blood had some mental problems. He was periodically institutionalized at a mental center in Chicago. His backers used to help him get over the wall at Manteno's mental institution to escape and go to the West Side to play "Cannonball Lefty" Chapman bank pool. 'Blood would still have the hospital bracelet on his wrist. Those sessions would bring sweators in from everywhere. The poolroom would be packed wall-to-wall. When the session was over, the backers would take him back to the hospital and hoist him back over the wall to be recommitted.

Beard

 

[freddy the beard]

Thanks Sherm..

Freddy I have to give you props too. I don't mention you much because we just didn't cross paths much back in the day. You and Gary played that one time (that I know of) in the tourney and I did tell that story a couple of times. lol You played very well in that tourney and knew all the moves to keep Gary out of his "comfort range". I now have a new found respect for you having purchased your "Banks That Don't Go, But Do" series. Having spent many years around top flight bank pool action I've seen pretty much all the shots before, but never could anyone I knew explain the shots in a way that made sense. Gary could make the shots but wasn't a good teacher at all. He often didn't understand why he needed to use a certain english to make a shot work, only that he had to use that english, from years of hitting them certain ways and observing the results or having been told by Joey or Donny or maybe even you when he was a kid, I wasn't around pool then. I've recommended to several people that they pick up your DVD's when they've told me they needed help with their banks, and will continue to do so! I also attend the One Pocket/Bank Pool Hall of Fame dinner at the DCC every year, usually with Danny. I will always remember those nights fondly. The stories and comraderie about brings tears to my eyes sometimes and you are always one of the most interesting story tellers there, and that's saying something because there are some beauts! I also appreciate your contributions to the forums, to your fans and to the sport in general. I wish you well in all you do. If you're ever passing through Cincinnati, please give me a shout and stop by! Danny D calls my place his "home away from home" and he'll tell you we have a good time when ever he comes. Billy Carrelli is over a couple of times a week too and I'm sure he'd like to get together and swap war stories too. Later Buddy!

See you at the next Hall of Fame Dinner at Derby City, Sherm. Bring that fricken Billy Carrelli with you. He's a terrific undercover banker too. I'm gonna expose his ass to the public. He tricked me a few times down in Hot Springs AR, masquerading as a horse trainer (which he actually was).

Beard

 

[jay helfert]

See you at the next Hall of Fame Dinner at Derby City, Sherm. Bring that fricken Billy Carrelli with you. He's a terrific undercover banker too. I'm gonna expose his ass to the public. He tricked me a few times down in Hot Springs AR, masquerading as a horse trainer (which he actually was).

Beard

I wonder if Billy remembers me from Mergards. He was always on my ass to play. I played him 9-Ball once and lost. That was enough for me. I got a lot better later though. I should have gone back for him. :wink:

 

[jay helfert]

Seriously, thank you for your "retraction?" I knew you were going to bring up that pounding for $500 a game I took against Danny Medina on my home court, with you in with Danny, and then that time when you "drizzled out " on me at Derby City. As you have already noticed, I have a touch of that pool players Alzheimer's, just like Donny Anderson, whereby you only forget the losers.
Lucky for you, you werent in with Danny the next time we played a few months later at Akron? or Toledo?, I forgot which tourn. when I gained revenge. Eight in a row for $200 a game (we were both betting our own). Danny broke it down with the most delicious pool compliment I ever got, "I cant beat you playing bank pool." Jay, you knew how cocky and confident Danny was, so you know what it took for him to say that.

Cannonball was my hero when I was a kid. He was the first guy I ever seen bank 8 and out (on Danny Jones), so I was always sky high when we played and he was usually a little oiled. He did imbibe a bit, as you well know. He also, as did Javenly Youngblood Washington, spend a few vacations in the booby hatch.

Excerpt from my book The GosPool:
Some Great Black Players That I Knew:
John "Cannonball Lefty" Chapman from Chicago's West Side. He played all games, including a smattering of Three-Cushion Billiards. This is how he would warm up before a match: He had such a supple body he would roll up into a ball on the floor; knees up against his chest, head between his legs, arms around his ankles. You could have rolled him down a hill. "Mexican Johnny" Vasquez used to go to the West Side and play Lefty bank pool. I once asked how Lefty played him, and what kind of handicap was involved. Johnny replied that Lefty spotted him 14 to 8 playing banks on a 4' x 8' pool table. I gasped. I couldn't believe anybody on earth could give a journeyman player like Johnny that much spot. I asked him, "How the hell could you possibly lose getting that much weight?" Johnny replied in his inimitable style, "Sheet, man, dat ain't sucha good game. Lefty git a shot, he bank 'leven, bank twelve, bank ten."
Javenly "Youngblood" Washington from Chicago's South Side, the original Youngblood. He was one of the all-time great bank-pool players. Besides his fabulous pool skills, 'Blood had some mental problems. He was periodically institutionalized at a mental center in Chicago. His backers used to help him get over the wall at Manteno's mental institution to escape and go to the West Side to play "Cannonball Lefty" Chapman bank pool. 'Blood would still have the hospital bracelet on his wrist. Those sessions would bring sweators in from everywhere. The poolroom would be packed wall-to-wall. When the session was over, the backers would take him back to the hospital and hoist him back over the wall to be recommitted.

Beard

"Drizzled out"! what kind of compliment is that? You hate admitting that someone may have beaten you one little time. I had just got done whipping it on Mike Lebron when he was the U.S. Open champ (won $400 from the book), and I beat Larry Humphreys for $350 at fifty a game short rack. He was a good banker out of Oklahoma. Dave Piona set up the game. The next day I played you and Billy made the line I wouldn't get three going to five. I bet $400 (two by me and two by Danny) on the match and won 5-3. Where was the drizzle? What I remember was a lot of SIZZLE! By me!

Ha Ha :thumbup: Love you Freddie. Let me have my one moment of glory. There weren't too many. Oh and one more thing, while you were playing Danny, I was playing your backer Big Wayne short rack Banks for fifty a game. Do you even remember how many games I beat him out of? No? Well try FIFTEEN! Tommy Spencer watched part of it and afterward said, "I'm not playing you any Banks. So don't even ask!"

P.S. Danny and I cleared ten thousand on that little three week road trip. So it wasn't all bad. Thanks for your contribution!

 

[12squared]

For a brief moment this thread brought tears to my eyes. I remember Bugs, the warrior he was, limping around the tables in Los Angeles in 1993 and still playing good Banks. He never complained or offered any excuses. That's not the kind of man he was. All the years I knew him (and maybe only spoke to him once or twice), he always carried himself in a very dignified manner. No raised voices, no bragging, no nothing. He would walk in the pool room and just stand there. He was the quiet assassin, looking for his prey.

Everyone would know Bugs was in the house, and the whole mood in the room would change. He had a God-like presence in the pool world. People/players were in awe of him. Hubert Cokes was the only other person I ever saw who commanded this kind of respect. Bugs was a legendary figure, who most people wouldn't even approach. He talked very little, just observed. He made his games quietly and without fanfare, usually having someone (like Sylvester or Paul Jones) match it up for him. When he was satisfied with the game, he just went to the table and got it on. He went about his business just as quietly too. And when it was over, he disappeared into the night. Never saw another one like him!

Very poignant, Jay. I tried to rep you but couldn't. I know what you mean, I bought Bug's instructional bank tapes when they came out just to support him, have them, and see Bugs hit balls.

Good post.

Dave

 

[cuesmith]

See you at the next Hall of Fame Dinner at Derby City, Sherm. Bring that fricken Billy Carrelli with you. He's a terrific undercover banker too. I'm gonna expose his ass to the public. He tricked me a few times down in Hot Springs AR, masquerading as a horse trainer (which he actually was).

Beard

Yeah, Billy told me about running into you and George Michaels in Hot Springs once. And about giving you a tip on a pony once that you were happy about. lol

 

[lfigueroa]

If I wasnt so visable on the internet forums I probably wouldnt squawk, but I never seem to get a plug in the bank area from you. When it comes to top bankers, you keep leaving me out...

Beard

Why is that whenever these great bank pool player lists come out, Freddy is always the guy with an asterisk next to his name?

Lou Figueroa
just kidding Freddy

 

[freddy the beard]

There you go again

Why is that whenever these great bank pool player lists come out, Freddy is always the guy with an asterisk next to his name?

Lou Figueroa
just kidding Freddy

I cant get nothing past you, Lou Lou.

Beard

 

[freddy the beard]

Wayne

"Drizzled out"! what kind of compliment is that? You hate admitting that someone may have beaten you one little time. I had just got done whipping it on Mike Lebron when he was the U.S. Open champ (won $400 from the book), and I beat Larry Humphreys for $350 at fifty a game short rack. He was a good banker out of Oklahoma. Dave Piona set up the game. The next day I played you and Billy made the line I wouldn't get three going to five. I bet $400 (two by me and two by Danny) on the match and won 5-3. Where was the drizzle? What I remember was a lot of SIZZLE! By me!

Ha Ha :thumbup: Love you Freddie. Let me have my one moment of glory. There weren't too many. Oh and one more thing, while you were playing Danny, I was playing your backer Big Wayne short rack Banks for fifty a game. Do you even remember how many games I beat him out of? No? Well try FIFTEEN! Tommy Spencer watched part of it and afterward said, "I'm not playing you any Banks. So don't even ask!"

P.S. Danny and I cleared ten thousand on that little three week road trip. So it wasn't all bad. Thanks for your contribution!

Wayne going off, just killing time while I was playing, often ran into more money than I could win in the middle. To put me at ease he would say he was only playing for $10 a game. It took a long time before I found out them 10s was really 50s.

Beard

By outing your win over me, you gave my nemesis, San Jose Dick cannon fodder to use against me. He's in hog heaven right now.

 

[lfigueroa]

I cant get nothing past you, Lou Lou.

Beard

Well shoot, Fred, Fred -- if you just want to come up with nicknames, I can easily go with Freddy "The Asterisk" Beard in all future correspondence

Lou Figueroa

 

[jay helfert]

OMG I just turned 15,000!

I'm older than Methuselah! Let's see, 15,000 posts in six years means 2,500 a year. That's sick! Get a life Jay! :thud:

 

[cuesmith]

I'm older than Methuselah! Let's see, 15,000 posts in six years means 2,500 a year. That's sick! Get a life Jay! :thud:

Thanks for cheering me up Jay. I'm 59 1/2 , have 1150 posts in 7 years. And I thought I had a problem.... :thumbup:

 

[freddy the beard]

Gosh...

Well shoot, Fred, Fred -- if you just want to come up with nicknames, I can easily go with Freddy "The Asterisk" Beard in all future correspondence

Lou Figueroa

Jeez, how thin skinned are you? I was actually being slightly affectionate. Dont you think I could have been a little more creative if my intention was to slight or insult?

I take that as an insult that you would think that that was meant as an insult.

Beard

Asterisks aint gonna hide the hides of the top bankers I accumulated throughout the years. I aint no one-year-wonder, Roger Maris.

 

[CrossSideLarry]

I must defend my home boy, Bugs. Gary was a great player, and I really liked the kid, but I believe Bugs was a better banker, especially for giant money.

I'll concede the rest of the field to Gary. As I said, I really liked the kid. I knew him from when he was little, and he was always respectful to me, and considerate enough to not embarass me by asking me to play.

Beard[/QUOTE]

 

[lfigueroa]

Jeez, how thin skinned are you? I was actually being slightly affectionate. Dont you think I could have been a little more creative if my intention was to slight or insult?

I take that as an insult that you would think that that was meant as an insult.

Beard

Asterisks aint gonna hide the hides of the top bankers I accumulated throughout the years. I aint no one-year-wonder, Roger Maris.

Geez, Freddy, I put a happy face at the end of it. No biggie.

AND, I take it as an insult that you took it as an insult that you thought I took it as an insult!

Lou Figueroa
or suumthin'
like that

 

[TheCueHunter]

Yes that was a trip,he always wore his shirt's untucked and when his shirt touched a ball they called a foul,pissed Gary off so much he stripped to the waist and beat them into submission!

Thanks Jay,Sherm and Freddy for the memories of Gary,he was a fun loving guy that played top speed pool that was taken to early,he is greatly missed by many.

Nice signature:thumbup: Bill said thats the best he ever seen you play:killingme:

 

[Doug]

Re:Gary Spaeth

Never knew Gary and not many of the great players mentioned in this thread. But Vernon Elliott was a close friend of mine so via his stories to me of his experiences playing most of these great players I feel like I knew them. Vernon never played tournaments otherwise his name would be as prominently mentioned as any. Notice that Jack Cooney isn't mentioned as well and I suspect he wouldn't be far off the mark in any game either. Vernon never had exceptionaly high praise for anyone who didn't gamble and gamble high but he had very high praise for Gary Spaeth. When I asked him about Gary Spaeth his eyes would light up and he would say; Gary is a player. From that comment I knew Gary was the real deal.