Jayson Shaw victim or defeated foe

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Blue Jam

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
gunzby said:
The problem is he didn't cheat. He called the ten. I've listened to the tape over a dozen times. I had to use a headset and turn the volume all the way up to hear it. Right before he got down on the shot he called the ten.
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I think you're watching the wrong video. There's one on facebook and elsewhere that is very, very clear that he calls the two. You don't need to turn the volume up, it's utterly unequivocal.

But regardless if it's the two or the ten or even the twenty six ball that he called, he then states he didn't call ANY balls to try and persuade the ref/Jayson to let him keep shooting.

That's a lie and means he was cheating - no two ways about it.
 
gunzby

gunzby

My light saber is LD
Silver Member
Blue Jam said:
I think you're watching the wrong video. There's one on facebook and elsewhere that is very, very clear that he calls the two. You don't need to turn the volume up, it's utterly unequivocal.

But regardless if it's the two or the ten or even the twenty six ball that he called, he then states he didn't call ANY balls to try and persuade the ref/Jayson to let him keep shooting.

That's a lie and means he was cheating - no two ways about it.
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Considering that he calls the ten about two seconds before shooting it I don't think I watched the wrong video. That is unless there is a rule stating that the first ball you call is the one you have to shoot.
 
mattkenefick

mattkenefick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For fun devils advocate, since this thread is already a trainwreck...

Communication is 7% spoken words, 38% tone of voice, and 55% is body language, gesturing, posture, etc.


He was very clearly eyeballing, test aiming, analyzing, and thinking about the 10 ball for a long time (minutes). Not once did he even look at the 2 ball.

If real communication is 55% body language and gesturing, then he 100% called the 10 ball.
 
BRussell

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Blue Jam said:
You don't know about the lie?! Have you watched the video? Just after earl calls the two then pots the ten, he says he didn't call any ball. It's the lying that got Jayson so hot. Earl could have smoothed things out very easily by telling the truth. But because he already lost his innings earlier in the match for the same thing (rightly or wrongly, that's another story) he lied to try and avoid losing his innings here too.

Earl tried to gain an advantage by lying. That makes him both a liar and a cheat. You don't have to like it, but it's the truth. I'm not excusing Jayson messing up the table after Earl refused to shake his hand in concession, but facts are facts.

Earl is a lying cheat. Fact.

Also, let be clear that the shot wasn't obvious. Earl looked at a number of shots, talked about playing a carom then about a second after calling the two, played into the stack it was in at pace sending balls all over the table. This was not an obvious shot and Jayson not having a straight pool background was quite correct to clarify this point.
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Yes I heard Earl say something like "I didn't call no ball," which was a lie. There was a lot of other talk that wasn't audible to me.

But you're wrong that the shot wasn't obvious. That term 'obvious' has a specific definition in all rules of pool, and it means that the shot is not a bank, combination, kick, etc. This ball was a cut shot that went straight into the pocket, and was therefore obvious.

So I've directly addressed your comment about Early lying, and I want you to directly address this: Is it true that Jayson tried to hold an obvious verbal misstatement against Earl? And do you think the failure to win on that is being cheated?
 
A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Blue Jam said:
... I'm not excusing Jayson messing up the table after Earl refused to shake his hand in concession, but facts are facts. ...
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Grantstew said:
... and then Earl refused to shake hands when he resigned. ...
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Though reluctantly and briefly, Earl did shake Jayson's hand when Jayson walked over to Earl right after Leyman announced his decision. And Jayson unscrewed. It's on one of the videos. The concession happened at that point, not when Jayson later tossed a couple balls around the table.
 
Tooler

Tooler

AhSheetMaDruars
Silver Member
I believe Jayson said "I concede" as he started unscrewing, before the blowup.

Earl said something at the table,as Jayson was unscrewing, and he went off....

Wonder what he said....? :speechless::rotflmao1:
 
PoolBum

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
Tooler said:
I believe Jayson said "I concede" as he started unscrewing, before the blowup.

Earl said something at the table,as Jayson was unscrewing, and he went off....

Wonder what he said....? :speechless::rotflmao1:
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I think he called the 2 ball.
 
Kris_b1104

Kris_b1104

House Pro in my own home.
Silver Member
Tooler said:
I believe Jayson said "I concede" as he started unscrewing, before the blowup.

Earl said something at the table,as Jayson was unscrewing, and he went off....

Wonder what he said....? :speechless::rotflmao1:
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I think he whispered "You'll never get to play in the Mosconi Cup for Team Euro no matter how many Eurotours you play in"
 
cleary

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
I played a guy in the 8ball BCAPL nationals a couple years back. He got funny on the 8ball and said "cross corner" and pointed his cue at the side pocket. He then banked the ball into the side pocket he tapped with his cue, yet he said "cross corner". I shook his hand and said good game. I knew what he was doing, he just made a verbal mistake.
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
cleary said:
I played a guy in the 8ball BCAPL nationals a couple years back. He got funny on the 8ball and said "cross corner" and pointed his cue at the side pocket. He then banked the ball into the side pocket he tapped with his cue, yet he said "cross corner". I shook his hand and said good game. I knew what he was doing, he just made a verbal mistake.
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Or you could throw pool balls and send them into the stands.

Freddie <~~~ thinks Cleary made the right choice
 
K

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Big Bad Bern said:
So let me ask this question, if Irving Crane was playing Willie Mosconi and Crane called the two and shot the ten at the world championship what do you think would have happened?
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Inapt attempt at an analogy. The referee called the shot out loud on every shot in the big matches in those days. Watch the youtube video of Mosconi v. Jimmy Caras to see how they did it back in the day, when pool had not yet fully descended into the muck. Notice no sharking or funny business at all.
 
Kris_b1104

Kris_b1104

House Pro in my own home.
Silver Member
cleary said:
I played a guy in the 8ball BCAPL nationals a couple years back. He got funny on the 8ball and said "cross corner" and pointed his cue at the side pocket. He then banked the ball into the side pocket he tapped with his cue, yet he said "cross corner". I shook his hand and said good game. I knew what he was doing, he just made a verbal mistake.
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What a liar and cheater he is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should've called the ref over and threatened your opponent with the butt end of your cue, like a real man. Where is your dignity?
 
B

Blue Jam

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kris_b1104 said:
What a liar and cheater he is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should've called the ref over and threatened your opponent with the butt end of your cue, like a real man. Where is your dignity?
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Maybe not, he might have admitted his error and taken responsibility, like a real man.
 
J

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Get_A_Grip said:
Had the ref not stepped in between them, it almost seemed like it could have gotten physical and fists or cues could have started swinging...
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Earl kept repeating over and over again, "He's the one that's out of control," meaning Jayson.

Oh, those Boxing Brits. No wonder the United States loves the Brits as an ally. :D They've got spunk and grit. Definitely want them on our side! ;)
 
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