Jayson Shaw victim or defeated foe

OLD NO 9 said:
With Earl's southern drawl would anyone, that has listened to the cell phone video, really bet their life that he said two instead of ten?
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After listening to that video, I'll wager something...

He said 'two ball'.

The intended shot was the ten ball. Plain as day.

Not a great showing by either player if you ask me, not staying in the playing area,

and calling that foul, is a wash for me, I now have two players I can continually

root against.
 
JAM said:
I'm late to the party, but could it be that Earl was trying to carom off the 10 to make the 2 in the corner?
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No chance. Even Shaw said he knew Earl was shooting the 10. It's bad all around. A win on a technicality like that is bs but so is the way the whole match went down.
 
noMoreSchon said:
After listening to that video, I'll wager something...

He said 'two ball'.

The intended shot was the ten ball. Plain as day.

Not a great showing by either player if you ask me, not staying in the playing area,

and calling that foul, is a wash for me, I now have two players I can continually

root against.
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You miss the gist of my post if you think I've offered a wager. After listening to it ten more times I still hear it both ways.
 
My comment after the spectator's video of the shot is released:

1. Although this is not a WPA sanctioned event (correct me if I'm wrong) this is essentially "the" current Straight Pool World Championship. Even though the background is a "warm" kind one, at least for the semi finals and final it should be considered (if possible) to have them in a more "isolated" atmosphere (no criticism to the people making a huge effort to keep this great game alive). Referees are hard to find (even on pay roll) and this in general is a problem in Pool. In this case the sitting player could ask the referee to watch the shot closely, he didn't (forgot maybe) so there were no perfect "referee conditions".

2. It is clear that the 2 ball is called, and we have to take it from commentators the 10ball was the one the shooter wanted to pocket (we have no clear view from this video, but it does look so).

3. It's hard to believe if a spectator's video captured the call on the 2 that the official equipment didn't (the final decision was based on that too), that is to be further examined.

4. It is clearly a loss of turn, the sitting player could out of "sportsmanship" let it go, but on the other hand rules are rules and calling the right ball is part of them, so he can't be blamed for asking them to be applied properly.

5. The final decision, although a wrong one, should be respected after that, or an official protest should follow. No need to argue with the opponent, which also had the option to call the foul on himself but didn't (not necessarily because he wanted to cheat, it doesn't look so), anyway.

6. Not obvious why the winner didn't shake hands in the end, too much tension, maybe he didn't want to finish the match this way.

Points 5 and 6 from another relative video. The rest is history.
 
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Agreed, there is no doubt on the Facebook video Earl calls the two.

If pool ever wants to be taken seriously as a professional game then this kind of thing can't happen.

If this was an amateur club game I'd let it go...but it wasn't it was a professional match and pro's shouldn't just let things go, it's their job to play to the rules.

Jayson was correct to raise it to the ref who unfortunately didn't hear the call and was unable to provide the correct judgement.
 
I watched video of it on his web site. He definitely made the ball he was intending to make but he also got confused and said the wrong ball. Pool seems to be a gentlemen game when some people on here want it to be. You want people to call fouls on them self but don't want to let a simple mistake when he obviously made the ball he was trying slip by.

For the record I don't calls on myself. That's your job and in the semi finals of the world championship I'm calling the foul that you didn't make the ball you called. I guess the official had a different op.
 
Consider this:

How would this situation have played out if everything happened the same way except that Earl had shot at and somehow made the 2 ball? It may have looked unintended or flukey, but since everyone heard Earl call the 2 ball he would have gotten away with it and the ref would have called it in his favor.

If you agree that he could have legally shot the 2 ball instead of the 10 due to his call, then you must admit that he shouldn't have been allowed to shoot the 10 ball. That is why the rules matter.
 
Vohladio said:
Consider this:

How would this situation have played out if everything happened the same way except that Earl had shot at and somehow made the 2 ball? It may have looked unintended or flukey, but since everyone heard Earl call the 2 ball he would have gotten away with it and the ref would have called it in his favor.

If you agree that he could have legally shot the 2 ball instead of the 10 due to his call, then you must admit that he shouldn't have been allowed to shoot the 10 ball. That is why the rules matter.
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My thoughts exactly - but you said it much better than me.
 
trob said:
I watched video of it on his web site. He definitely made the ball he was intending to make but he also got confused and said the wrong ball. Pool seems to be a gentlemen game when some people on here want it to be. You want people to call fouls on them self but don't want to let a simple mistake when he obviously made the ball he was trying slip by.

For the record I don't calls on myself. That's your job and in the semi finals of the world championship I'm calling the foul that you didn't make the ball you called. I guess the official had a different op.
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Most people are also forgetting that Jayson plays pool for a living. He was literally cheated out of the difference between 3rd and 2nd place prize money.

It says a lot about the current state of pool when people want to call that being a nit.
 
GideonF said:
BTW, Darren said on Facebook he thinks the rule shouldn't be that Earl loses his turn (but said they should have been consistent and applied the same technical ruling they did before).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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And it was a crap ruling the first time around too because as I understand it, it was a clear case of simply misspeaking but the intended ball was obvious. It's really pretty shameful behavior on Shaw's part.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Jesus Christ! How do you and half of the moral-less people here still not get it?!

Intent is irrelevant in a call shot game WHEN you call the WRONG shot![/QUOTE

What if he had called a ball that had already been made?

I see what he intended to do. That is enough for me. If there were any question, that may be a different story.
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trob said:
I watched video of it on his web site. He definitely made the ball he was intending to make but he also got confused and said the wrong ball. Pool seems to be a gentlemen game when some people on here want it to be. You want people to call fouls on them self but don't want to let a simple mistake when he obviously made the ball he was trying slip by.

For the record I don't calls on myself. That's your job and in the semi finals of the world championship I'm calling the foul that you didn't make the ball you called. I guess the official had a different op.
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I agree with this analysis. Here is a transcript of the video with time stamps of what was said:

[00:00:33] EARL: Two shots.
[00:00:35] EARL: 15 In the side, cut the 10, and play the carom. What would happen [?] play?
[00:00:41] EARL: You play the carom.
[00:00:50] EARL: That's a [?] shot.
[00:01:08] EARL: 2 ball.
[Earl points his cue stick towards left corner pocket and shoots the shot.]
[00:01:14] EARL: 10 ball!
[00:01:16] JAYSON: You called the--you called the 2.
[00:01:17] EARL: Agh!
[00:01:18] JAYSON: You called the 2.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Am I missing something here? What other ways could the ruling have gone against Earl?
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Ummmmmm, Earl manning up & being honest that he had a senior moment & called the wrong ball and forfeited his turn as he should have for his mistake instead of making Shaw appear to be a liar when he stated Earl called the 2. It's called personal accountability.

Instead in an act of desperation to show he's still relevant in the game he sticks to the lie in an effort to win. So sad.
 
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Petros Andrikop said:
My comment after the spectator's video of the shot is released:

1. Although this is not a WPA sanctioned event (correct me if I'm wrong) this is essentially "the" current Straight Pool World Championship. Even though the background is a "warm" kind one, at least for the semi finals and final it should be considered (if possible) to have them in a more "isolated" atmosphere (no criticism to the people making a huge effort to keep this great game alive). Referees are hard to find (even on pay roll) and this in general is a problem in Pool. In this case the sitting player could ask the referee to watch the shot closely, he didn't (forgot maybe) so there were no perfect "referee conditions".

2. It is clear that the 2 ball is called, and we have to take it from commentators the 10ball was the one the shooter wanted to pocket (we have no clear view from this video, but it does look so).

3. It's hard to believe if a spectator's video captured the call on the 2 that the official equipment didn't (the final decision was based on that too), that is to be further examined.

4. It is clearly a foul, the sitting player could out of "sportsmanship" let it go, but on the other hand rules are rules and calling the right ball is part of them, so he can't be blamed for asking them to be applied properly.

5. The final decision, although a wrong one, should be respected after that, or an official protest should follow. No need to argue with the opponent, which also had the option to call the foul on himself but didn't (not necessarily because he wanted to cheat, it doesn't look so), anyway.

6. Not obvious why the winner didn't shake hands in the end, too much tension, maybe he didn't want to finish the match this way.

Points 5 and 6 from another relative video. The rest is history.
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I know your intent, but since you said it's "clearly a foul" in point 4, and it's not a foul, should I consider your whole post all wrong? I mean, we know your intent, but you had a senior moment, so....
 
Disclaimer: I haven't watched the stream. I wasn't there. All I watched is the video on Arturo Reues Facebook and have read this thread.

To me it is obvious. People who were there said that he called the 2. People who watched the stream saying that the commentators were talking about the cut on the 10, so this was the intended shot.

How on earth would anyone rule on Earl's favor is beyond me. I don't care what the intended shot was. The rules say that you have to call a ball. He didn't call the correct ball, so it is a foul. I don't care if he even called a ball that had already been pocketed. He made a mistake, he should be punished for it. They are profesionals. They are not playing a game for fun and laughs. It is their jobs. And to do your job well you should follow the rules. Plain and simple. (Also, wtf... Ruling was "people here heard the 2 ball but i watched the stream and couldnt hear what the player said because of the commentators, so i say good shot earl".. This is beyond stupid.)

And on another thing. People calling out Shaw for bad sportsmanship?? This is rediculous. I saw nothing wrong with his behaviour. He did flip out and conceded the match. This is completely understandable. Seriously, what did you expect?? He sees that they are not following the rules and he was sopposed to just seat there quietly? Give me a break.

Earl has the worst sportsmanship on the history of this god forsaken game, and now you are calling out Shaw, because he flipped out that he sees that the tournament doesn't follow simple rules?? Again, give me a break
 
Vohladio said:
Consider this:

How would this situation have played out if everything happened the same way except that Earl had shot at and somehow made the 2 ball? It may have looked unintended or flukey, but since everyone heard Earl call the 2 ball he would have gotten away with it and the ref would have called it in his favor.

If you agree that he could have legally shot the 2 ball instead of the 10 due to his call, then you must admit that he shouldn't have been allowed to shoot the 10 ball. That is why the rules matter.
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Why consider something that isn't even close to this situation? It's tough enough with the current reality.
 
Cornerman said:
I know your intent, but since you said it's "clearly a foul" in point 4, and it's not a foul, should I consider your whole post all wrong? I mean, we know your intent, but you had a senior moment, so....
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My intent does not mean I used correct phrasing, that is why I corrected that one. Still remains I made a mistake, has nothing to do with the rest of what I wrote.
In case of official tournament conditions (especially of this caliber), a clear mistake of this kind (calling a wrong ball) is dealt by loss of turn according to the rules of the game.
 
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