Jayson Shaw victim or defeated foe

has people wathced teh video of the match on shaws facebook?

earl clearly calls the 2.

he says before it "you know efren would play the carom"

its amazing people still defend this man who tried to cheat earlier in the match

he has been on the bad side of pool so many times but people defend him its unreal he is a POS and disgrace to the game
 
NYC cue dude said:
I was there as well, and Stu and I spoke.

There is NO question that Earl called the 2. None. It was loud and annunciated perfectly.

The object ball was NOT obvious. If you look at the layout of the table, you will see that in order to make the back cut on the 10, it require Earl to line up and aim into the pack. He could've easily been shooting an out of the stack shot.

Earl knows he called the 2, and those watching the stream, if they are being honest, will recall Earl admitting as such when his defense immediately afterwards was "but it was obvious what I was shooting". I'm sorry, I was right there, and that was not obvious, and the picture is proof.

The call was a travesty. But was just the final straw to the most disrespectful show of sportsmanship on Earl's behalf.

For any folks on the stream, did you wonder why Earl wasn't on screen when Jayson was shooting? It's because he removed himself from the playing area and was sitting in a different zip code. He walked off and left instructions/permission that Jayson should keep shooting. He spent half of the 3+ hours sitting outside the playing area. That's immediate grounds for a warning and disqualification without remedy. This was NOT enforced. How can anyone think that that is fair to the opponent, regardless of who it is. It is incredibly bad sportsmanship. There's more to being a champion than just winning.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt what you heard at all. But can you sketch or describe the "out of the stack shot" that could have made the 2-ball by thinly cutting the 10? I really don't see it, but 14.1 isn't my game.
 
actionplayer said:
has people wathced teh video of the match on shaws facebook?

earl clearly calls the 2.

he says before it "you know efren would play the carom"

its amazing people still defend this man who tried to cheat earlier in the match

he has been on the bad side of pool so many times but people defend him its unreal he is a POS and disgrace to the game
Click to expand...

Fact. And yes, he talked about a carom.
 
PoolBum said:
Here's the table right before Earl shot. The 10 ball, which he ended up shooting in the bottom right corner pocket, is just below the cueball. The 2 ball, as far as I can tell, is the middle ball in the pack near the spot, between the 14 and the 7.

My question is, if he called the 2 ball where in the world would he be trying to make it, and how?
Click to expand...

Earl appears to be staring down the line of the 10 ball...

KMRUNOUT
 
Cory in DC said:
I didn't see this, but is there any chance that Earl said "ten" quickly in a southern accent and Jayson, with Scottish ears, thought he heard "two"? If Earl trails off a bit and doesn't clearly say the "n" at the end of "ten" then it could be misheard.

Anyway, I don't see how Earl would have possibly called the 2 from there.
Click to expand...

UPDATE. From the video at https://www.facebook.com/jayson.shaw.77 (about 1 minute in), Earl certainly did say "2 ball" but he also pointed with his cue at the pocket the 10 went into and then fired the 10.

So Earl clearly said "2" but clearly intended "10." Tough situation. I like to say I would never call that on someone. But if that someone had been annoying me with BS for the entire match, I just might.
 
Cory in DC said:
I don't doubt what you heard at all. But can you sketch or describe the "out of the stack shot" that could have made the 2-ball by thinly cutting the 10? I really don't see it, but 14.1 isn't my game.
Click to expand...

I didn't say the two had a path. But Earl called it and lined up for a shot that appeared destined for the pack. the rules state the ball must be called. There is some flexibility if the shot is "obvious". Obvious suggests a straight in shot or something similar. According to the spirit of the rule, this shot was NOT obvious, especially after he audibly and very clearly called the 2, and aimed directly towards the pack where the 2 was.
 
actionplayer said:
has people wathced teh video of the match on shaws facebook?

earl clearly calls the 2.

he says before it "you know efren would play the carom" ...
Click to expand...

Clarification -- the carom alternative had nothing to do with the 2-ball. It was shooting the cue ball off the left edge (as Earl looked at it) of the 10-ball and pocketing the 11-ball in the corner (same corner the 10-ball ultimately went in).
 
AtLarge said:
Clarification -- the carom alternative had nothing to do with the 2-ball. It was shooting the cue ball off the left edge (as Earl looked at it) of the 10-ball and pocketing the 11-ball in the corner (same corner the 10-ball ultimately went in).
Click to expand...

agree but im saying he is talking about a carom lining up the ten straight then calls the 2 so how can it be obvious?
 
NYC cue dude said:
I didn't say the two had a path. But Earl called it and lined up for a shot that appeared destined for the pack. the rules state the ball must be called. There is some flexibility if the shot is "obvious". Obvious suggests a straight in shot or something similar. According to the spirit of the rule, this shot was NOT obvious, especially after he audibly and very clearly called the 2, and aimed directly towards the pack where the 2 was.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying. At the same time, the 10 did have a clear path to the pocket, and Earl did point at the correct hole. So I see some wiggle room as to whether it was "obvious" or not. That type of cut is not extreme by pro standards, and there was no billiard, combo, or bank. I'm not a particular fan of Earl but it was obvious to me, at least.

I'm not sure that he "aimed directly towards the pack where the 2 was." He aimed at the 10 and billiarded into the stack. I think we can all agree that Earl was in fact not attempting to pocket the 2, even though he said "two".
 
Cory in DC said:
I see what you're saying. At the same time, the 10 did have a clear path to the pocket, and Earl did point at the correct hole. So I see some wiggle room as to whether it was "obvious" or not. That type of cut is not extreme by pro standards, and there was no billiard, combo, or bank. I'm not a particular fan of Earl but it was obvious to me, at least.

I'm not sure that he "aimed directly towards the pack where the 2 was." He aimed at the 10 and billiarded into the stack. I think we can all agree that Earl was in fact not attempting to pocket the 2, even though he said "two".
Click to expand...

It's not the referees, or the spectators to think for Earl and say "what is he thinking". Or say, "that's a crazy shot", after calling the 2 and then aiming in its direction.

It's not as if he was aiming at the 10 with a full, or even half ball hit. It was an extreme cut. With that in mind, and reviewing the picture, you can see the path of the cue was NOT obvious. And again, this was after he called the 2.

Had he called the 2, and aimed and shot in a completely opposite direction, it would've been obvious he wasn't shooting the 2. That wasn't the case. And that's the point.
 
NYC cue dude said:
It's not the referees, or the spectators to think for Earl and say "what is he thinking". Or say, "that's a crazy shot", after calling the 2 and then aiming in its direction.

It's not as if he was aiming at the 10 with a full, or even half ball hit. It was an extreme cut. With that in mind, and reviewing the picture, you can see the path of the cue was NOT obvious. And again, this was after he called the 2.

Had he called the 2, and aimed and shot in a completely opposite direction, it would've been obvious he wasn't shooting the 2. That wasn't the case. And that's the point.
Click to expand...

He intended to play the 10 but called "two ball" instead. Tired? Pressure? Maybe both. He slapped the cue when Shaw called it, he knew he made a mistake.
Nobody doubts his intention to make the 10, but he called the 2.
Shaw's post on FB has a point, this is a mental game and if Earl can't handle the pressure and made a mistake like that, that's on him.

Personally I would let him play, I just don't think I should win like that. Well but that's just me, and I don't play pool for a living.
 
HelloBaby- said:
He intended to play the 10 but called "two ball" instead. Tired? Pressure? Maybe both. He slapped the cue when Shaw called it, he knew he made a mistake.
Nobody doubts his intention to make the 10, but he called the 2.
Shaw's post on FB has a point, this is a mental game and if Earl can't handle the pressure and made a mistake like that, that's on him.

Personally I would let him play, I just don't think I should win like that. Well but that's just me, and I don't play pool for a living.
Click to expand...

I had this discussion afterwards with Darren and Schmidt. Clearly, none of these guys would make that call against Earl under normal circumstances. They'd be willing to overlook the foul. But not after the way Earl treated and sharked Jayson throughout the match. His behavior was completely unprofessional and quite frankly, should've been disqualified an hour before the incident took place.
 
The only thing that's clear is the situation isn't clear. Either he called the 2 and then changed his mind and went for the 10 - an extreme cut with the cue ball aimed directly towards the stack with the 2 in it, so he should have called the ball rather than just pointing the cue at the pocket - in which case JS can call him on a technicality but could also let it go. Or he was angling and hoping to pocket the 2 or the 10 in which case he was cheating. If it's the former situation then he didn't make it clear so I guess ether way JS was right. Bad refereeing decision - and terrible refereeing situation in the first place for a "World Championship".
 
NYC cue dude said:
I had this discussion afterwards with Darren and Schmidt. Clearly, none of these guys would make that call against Earl under normal circumstances. They'd be willing to overlook the foul. But not after the way Earl treated and sharked Jayson throughout the match. His behavior was completely unprofessional and quite frankly, should've been disqualified an hour before the incident took place.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. For real I'm surprise why they let him do those shit over and over again. Tournament directors let him play, and no player gives him a "lesson :cool:". Unbelievable.
 
Where did the video come from that's on Jayson Shaw's Facebook page? (I'm not able to view the video.)
 
I watched the stream and did not hear anyone calling obvious shots and the shot was obvious. I know winning is important but at the same time if Jason wins he would not win because Earl missed he would win on a technicality. Got to admire his heart to get up un front of the world and call a foul like this. Now I know why they had a referee's calling every shot in the old days. If the match had proper refereeing this would never have happened. they bill this as the world championships yet they let this happen. What a joke.But I did watch Earl run 135 and it was beautiful pool.
 
What rules are they playing by? Here are the WPA rules on calling shots:
*********************
1.6 Standard Call Shot
In games in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may be called on each shot.
For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made, so if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be played, he may ask for a call.
In call shot games, the shooter may choose to call “safety” instead of a ball and pocket, and then play passes to the opponent at the end of the shot. Whether balls are being spotted after safeties depends on the rules of the particular game.
**********************

The part in bold is operative. The only thing that matters in calling your shot is that you pocketed the INTENDED ball. There's no penalty for misspeaking unless it leads to a situation where it's no longer obvious what your intentions are.

So everyone upset about following the rules to the point of ridiculousness should actually read the rules first. Even if he had called the 2, and everyone heard it, the decision was correct, IMHO, because the important thing is that he pocketed the intended ball, and it's pretty obvious that he was shooting at the 10 ball since there's no shot on the 2. It's easy to accidentally say 2 instead of 10 when you're focused on the shot at hand...or accidentally say 2 because they're both blue and you have a brain fart, or whatever. That's no way to loose a match, and the rules are written very sensibly so that really should never happen.

If the situation was reversed, and Earl made a stink because Shaw misspoke, everyone would be down on Earl for being a jerk, trying to win on a technicality, cheating, etc.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top