John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

I watched the match and the accelerating stroke looks to me to be a cross between a draw and stun shot. You look like you have combined the two into one. I also noticed that it looks like you use the inside teachnique maybe half the time?
 
Deceleration actually can happen frequently to players that raise up during the shooting motion... This is one of the main reasons that raising up is a bad idea....

As far as the inside technique I can only speak for myself but the stroke I have tuned in for the inside technique is what I call an upstroke... I know we have discussed upstroke and attack angles before... I want to make sure I do not drive the ball down into the cloth where swerve becomes a factor... By strokeing on an upward attack angle I feel like I am never going to add swerve...

For the technique to work I have to maximize the squirt aspect with pace and upward attack angle so that the cueball is still running away when it arrives at the object ball....

I have no idea if this description makes any more sense than accelerating stroke or not but for me it's the best way "I" can describe it......
 
you can accomplish {most} any shot with the "Touch" of Inside.

sammmy said:
I watched the match and the accelerating stroke looks to me to be a cross between a draw and stun shot. You look like you have combined the two into one. I also noticed that it looks like you use the inside teachnique maybe half the time?
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You could describe it as a Draw/Stun stroke ... and I'd say I used the "Touch" of Inside 80% and the accelerating stroke 90% of the time. If it was less than this it wan't because I tried to use it less, it just came up less because of the layout of the balls.

When I practice I "try" to use it EVERY time to get the sensation and touch that "connects me to the pocket". To achieve the highest performance always feel like you can accomplish {most} any shot with the "Touch" of Inside.
 
sammmy said:
Does an accelerated stroke mean to just hit the shot harder than you normally would?
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What people usually mean when they say "accelerate into the ball" or "finish the stroke" is: "don't decelerate into the ball" (i.e., don't slow the cue before cue ball contact). Decelerating into the ball can result in very poor speed control.

FYI, more info (and a video demo) concerning stroke acceleration can be found here:

Check it out,
Dave
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
When I"m playing my best game I use it almost 100% of the time....the exceptions is when I"m straight in and when I have to change the angle of the cue ball AFTER going to a rail.

Remember, the key thing is not the bigger pocket zone it creates. The biggest difference is when you do miss a ball you know exactly why, and you can adjust it with shot speed. When you spin balls or try to hit center you never really know why you are missing. The problem is you will be inclined to make adjustments that my NOT be the problem.

When a champion player misses (and we all do, especially early in matches) we know EXACTLY why and how to adjust. That's why developing one particular type of shot is superior to shooting several types of shots. You can certainly play both ways, and be at choice about your style.

This style is about taking control of the table, rather than the table controlling what type of shot you shoot. You can see what this style looks like if you want to watch this match with Steve "The Miz" and CJ Wiley
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Why is that? Why not all the time.(playing good or bad)
The comfort zone maybe.:smile:

Thanks for the video, I will watch it today.

Thanks for your replies on know it cant be easy with everyone coming at you from all directions.:smile:
 
Ok I don't know yet what accelerating the stroke is. I did play today for about an hour with the touch of inside. It's a bit hard to force myself to do this but it actually works to improve accuracy and the net effect is that you kind of force/float the cueball for position rather than roll it for position. I also found that when I forced myself to address the cueball this way that I could go just a hair more and get the cue ball spinning just as much as if I were to use BHE and go a bit farther out on the ball. It's awkward at the moment but I can see that it has merit and can pay off.
 
JB Cases said:
Ok I don't know yet what accelerating the stroke is. I did play today for about an hour with the touch of inside. It's a bit hard to force myself to do this but it actually works to improve accuracy and the net effect is that you kind of force/float the cueball for position rather than roll it for position. I also found that when I forced myself to address the cueball this way that I could go just a hair more and get the cue ball spinning just as much as if I were to use BHE and go a bit farther out on the ball. It's awkward at the moment but I can see that it has merit and can pay off.
Click to expand...


John this what Im doing ,I use back of ball aiming(always thick on the shot)I aim at a spot on the cloth not on the ball.There is one place off center with my 314 thats been giving good results.Distance helps with this method only thing that is tough is when the balls get close and you have much more of a angle.What I do is make sure the ball keeps it speed during the shot.(at least when it makes contact).The ball cannot slow down anytime during the shot before contact.(Im not saying to shoot hard here either)

This is what Im doing ,could be wrong.:smile:
Anthony
 
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8pack said:
John this what Im doing ,I use back of ball aiming(always thick on the shot)I aim at a spot on the cloth not on the ball.There is one place off center with my 314 thats been giving good results.Distance helps with this method only thing that is tough is when the balls get close and you have much more of a angle.What I do is make sure the ball keeps it speed during the shot.(at least when it makes contact).The ball cannot slow down anytime during the shot before contact.(Im not saying to shoot hard here either)This method will take time .:smile:

This is what Im doing ,could be wrong.:smile:
Anthony
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I use CTE to line up and then use the touch of inside to address the CB.
 
peteypooldude said:
Without reading through countless post. Are we aiming for the side of the pocket nearest the OB?
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Here's my deal I already know its short of the pocket dont need to look at anything but learn the speed.The results are only what matters.I have to connect the balls other wise I'm trying to be good at guessing.I've learn to always come at the shot thick.Having direction in your aiming process is key.The movement is ONE WAY.Thats strong. (Ghost ball aiming)you could be on either side of the shot.Not good:wink:

Im rambling ...Sorry
 
Update on thread length.

This thread is the longest ever on the Aiming Conversation forum.

To this point, its length (in number of replies) is exceeded only by
  • 4 threads on the Main Forum;
  • 4 threads on NPR;
  • 1 Sticky thread in W/FS;
  • 1 thread in the Gallery;

[and possibly a thread or two removed from the current listings.]

This thread has provided a good lesson in the valuable (and some not so valuable) twists and turns that a thread can take. It was started to highlight a couple pros' off-the-cuff comments that seemed to be anti aiming systems, but has led to even greater awareness of the intricacies of aiming techniques.
 
Neil said:
No. Do you know what a sine wave looks like? If so, look at the sine wave as your acceleration curve. You want to hit the cb at the peak of the curve, not on the downside of the curve. You don't want to hit the cb while slowing down the stroke but while accelerating it or while at a constant speed.
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Neil, a nitpick here, but maximum speed (or equivalently, minimum peak force for any speed), occurs when contacting the cueball after the peak for acceleration profiles roughly resembling a sine wave, and specifically at a phase angle of 113 degrees for a perfect sine wave. (The peak occurs at 90 degrees). With a "corrupted" but realistic profile, i.e., a mixture of many different sine waves, it varies. If I recall correctly, for mixtures that yield a more realistic profile based on accelerometer measurements, the optimal lag after the peak is larger (i.e., you want to make contact even later.) After the peak has been reached, you're still accelerating, just not as much.

Okay, a super nitpick.

Jim......and maybe supercilious too
 
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AtLarge said:
Update on thread length.

This thread is the longest ever on the Aiming Conversation forum.

To this point, its length (in number of replies) is exceeded only by
  • 4 threads on the Main Forum;
  • 4 threads on NPR;
  • 1 Sticky thread in W/FS;
  • 1 thread in the Gallery;

[and possibly a thread or two removed from the current listings.]

This thread has provided a good lesson in the valuable (and some not so valuable) twists and turns that a thread can take. It was started to highlight a couple pros' off-the-cuff comments that seemed to be anti aiming systems, but has led to even greater awareness of the intricacies of aiming techniques.
Click to expand...

Well we should throw John, Corey, TAR and PSA some jelly. Can we make an award for PSA if the thread goes to number one? So much for the aiming forum being a wasteland. And finally we have reached somewhat civil discussion on these topics! YAY.
 
peteypooldude said:
Without reading through countless post. Are we aiming for the side of the pocket nearest the OB?
Click to expand...
Since you use inside to squirt the CB to a thinner hit, you have to aim at the side of the pocket that needs a more full hit - which could be the nearest or farthest side from the OB.

The descriptions have been a little confused...

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The descriptions have been a little confused...

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

PJ:

Can you expand a little on this? I think it's fair to say you either love it or hate it; but I think CJ has been uber clear on describing this technique. What exactly is still a little confusing (just curious)? One of the guys who get it on here might be able to answer your questions.

Dave
 
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