Johnny Archer vs. Allison Fisher?
- Thread starter crawfish
- Start date
Bigjohn said:
Oh, so pool doesn't take a lot of physical ability? Congratulations! You just made the Guiness Book of World Records for being the only person on planet earth who believes that.
And no sir, alternate break was NOT designed for the spectator and/or TV. It was designed LIKE ALL OTHER MAJOR SPORTS ARE DESIGNED...to facilitate a CONTEST.
But I agree with you. To hell with the spectators and TV. Let's continue to let pool die a slow death here in America and get pool back to where it belongs. As a gambling game for roadies.
Regards,
Jim
Alternate breaks gives the fans and tv watchers a chance to see Both players play. Period. Without alternate breaks, the weaker players might learn what I learned the hard way. Either I learn to break the balls well, or I'll just Jump, kick and rack. Over and over. Seriously, how many balls, in a race to eleven, will Johnny actually miss. I mean shots he's trying to pocket, not two way, or safeties. Alternate is set up to make matches closer,and to give each player a chance to participate.av84fun said:
av84fun said:
Some couch potatoes may disagree with my opinion that pool does not take a lot of Physical ability but it's my opinion after 40 years of play and I stand behind it. and... Alternate break WAS designed to make a one sided match...more interesting....Period!
All things being equal "alternate" break favors the better PLAYER whereas "winner" break the better BREAKER.
Is a break contest more exciting than a 9 ball match?
Adam=====> Preferred winner break "back in the day" because I broke better than I played. Now that I'm a world class sweater (wet wool stinks
) I prefer alternate break.
Strickly MO and HNY
Is a break contest more exciting than a 9 ball match?
Adam=====> Preferred winner break "back in the day" because I broke better than I played. Now that I'm a world class sweater (wet wool stinks
) I prefer alternate break.Strickly MO and HNY
just why are women not as good breakers as the men anyway?
personally i think it's because women in general are not as co-ordinated as men, physically. in all sports men are better. they have better hand eye co-ordination and timing.
maybe i'll get some flak for saying that but the proof is in the pudding. most women can't put on a power break consistently hitting the head ball square, because it's just inherently tougher for them. strength isn't everything on the break because it's technique mostly. i would say the part of the break where strength comes into it is when the cue makes contact with the object ball - being able to hold the cue firm with minimal effort.
obviously this hand-eye co-odination and physical timing is only relevant on the break. normal shots are a different kettle of fish as they say.
personally i think it's because women in general are not as co-ordinated as men, physically. in all sports men are better. they have better hand eye co-ordination and timing.
maybe i'll get some flak for saying that but the proof is in the pudding. most women can't put on a power break consistently hitting the head ball square, because it's just inherently tougher for them. strength isn't everything on the break because it's technique mostly. i would say the part of the break where strength comes into it is when the cue makes contact with the object ball - being able to hold the cue firm with minimal effort.
obviously this hand-eye co-odination and physical timing is only relevant on the break. normal shots are a different kettle of fish as they say.
Personally I hate alternate break. But then I hate short races too. To me the most exciting thing in pool is when a great player catches that top gear and puts a big package together. Alternate break = no packages.
Well no packages unless the other guys screws up. Can a guy come back from a deficit in alernate break? Sure, but it is out of his control every other game.
When 9 ball dies I hope alternate break follows right behind it.
I am not saying what is "right" or "wrong" just what I like to watch.
Well no packages unless the other guys screws up. Can a guy come back from a deficit in alernate break? Sure, but it is out of his control every other game.
When 9 ball dies I hope alternate break follows right behind it.
I am not saying what is "right" or "wrong" just what I like to watch.
I agree....
Many people say that the women can't break as well because they're smaller....ummmmm, have any of those people seen Santos break???? I did, first hand playing him..He's like 4'11" and weighs like 90 pounds and he breaks them as good and hard as most top men thast wieigh twice as much.....
worriedbeef said:
Many people say that the women can't break as well because they're smaller....ummmmm, have any of those people seen Santos break???? I did, first hand playing him..He's like 4'11" and weighs like 90 pounds and he breaks them as good and hard as most top men thast wieigh twice as much.....
crawfish said:
Yes, of course alternate breaks aids the weaker breaker. But breaking is only ONE skill among MANY required to be a champion and it is silly beyond description, to have a format where ONE skill is the difference between winning and losing.
The weaker breaker should have the opportunity to demonstrate his/her position, shotmaking, safety and safety escaping skills to offset the breaking skill.
In football, what if you have a relatively weak QB but have the greatest defensive team of all time...one that holds the opponet's scord to low double digits.
Should that team be forced to kick off to the scoring team? Or a better analogy, should the scoring team get the ball 1st and 10 on their own 20 yard line after every score?
Silly right? The "keep that ball after a winning game/inning" format is unprecedented in any major sport for a GREAT reason. IT IS SILLY!
I know the roadies and small time local scufflers don't like the alternate break format because it robs them of the unfair advantage that we all seek in life. But I'm debating on behalf of the integrity of pool as a pro sport.
Regards,
jim
crawfish said:
THANKS for agreeing with me at least in part. But where you are wrong IMHO is your use of the word "Period."
Yes, alternate breaks give the fans exactly what they get in every major sport A COMPETITION between two players or teams. And there is exactly NOTHING wrong with that and EVERYTHING right about it.
But "period" is wrong because alternate breaks ALSO provide the weaker breaker to use OTHER skills to defeat the player who has ONE superior skill.
If there was a game called Break Ball where making a ball on the break resulted in a "point" then fine...play Break Ball.
But pool, in general, and 9 Ball in particular, is a game where NUMEROUS skills should be tested just as sjm so succinctly points out.
Regards,
Jim
Bigjohn said:
Again, I respect your right to your opinion but the truth is that great pool requires EXTREME "physical ability." You didn't say physical "strength" which is an entirely different metric.
And I, sir, have been playing pool a few years longer than you have but I don't refer to those who may disagree with me in this thread as couch potatoes.
And YOU don't stand as the world's leading authority on ANYTHING...PERIOD. And it is therefore, self-evident that my "period" is correct and yours is not.
But even if you were correct...which you are not...that alternate break was designed to make pool matches more interesting...WTF is wrong with THAT?
14.1 has become virtually extinct as a pro tour sport. Do you want the same thing to happen...or rather, continue happening to 9 Ball??
Regards,
Jim
ribdoner said:All things being equal "alternate" break favors the better PLAYER whereas "winner" break the better BREAKER.
Is a break contest more exciting than a 9 ball match?
Adam=====> Preferred winner break "back in the day" because I broke better than I played. Now that I'm a world class sweater (wet wool stinks
Strickly MO and HNY
EXACTLY ADAM!
worriedbeef said:
This isn't "flak" because POSSIBLY you are correct in regards to "physical coordination." I say possibly because I am not aware of any physiological studies on that subject.
But the chances are substantial that environmental and not physical factors are the cause of any inferior coordination...if it exists.
Societal mores are changing, thank God, but for the greatest portion of the last 100 years, young girls were not only not encouraged to take up sports, they were actively dissuaded from doing so.
Clearly, physical coordination is AT LEAST as much a learned skill as it is inate.
But I admit that the CAUSE of any deficiency in coordination was not your point...exactly...but rather that the deficiency exists. Again, you could be right.
BUT I cannot agree with that portion of your post where you assert that women have any defict to men on the issue of hitting the head ball squarely. Respectfully, that is the kind of argument that is convenient to make since it cannot be disproven (as far as I know).
However, as I only recently learned the squareness of the head ball hit has a FAR lower impact on total force applied to the rack than I thought was the case.
I don't recall exactly, but it might have been Bob Jewett who corrected my misconception on that point. So, at least to that extent, your argument is undermined.
Regards,
Jim
Jaden said:
IMHO only a few and not many people would attribute the breaking prowess difference to the issue that women are "smaller."
Everyone knows about Santos or Alex for that matter. And how many male pros are taller than karen or "bigger" than Kelly Fisher?
It is NOT size...and as worriedbeef pointed out, it is not necessarily strength either.
It is more likely than anything else that the difference is a combination of environmental issues as I spoke to in another post AND the fact that the WPBA was founded only 31 years ago. Prior to that time and even more miniscule portion of the female population actively competed in 9 Ball.
Finally, the top two women players obviously came from a snooker background. Allison never broke a 9 Ball rack until she was WELL into her 20s.
Regards,
Jim