joints! joints! joints!

A

Andrewjoseph

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
HELLO AGAIN AZers,

where do I begin?! OkAY, this is something that I have wondered about since I first learned about 2pc. cues.

Is there a specific joint that gives a more solid connection of the butt and shaft? do joints have an effect at all? Do any of you have a favorite joint? or favorite joint material (i.e. steel, ivory, phenolic, ect)? I'm really just curious about whatever you AZers have to contribute on the topic!

I would also lie to say that I understand that this question can be subjective, but I'm not looking for any definetive answer. just more opinions of people that have tried a few different things.

THANK YOU to hall that reply, and I can't wait to read what you all have to say!:thumbup:
 
Different joints have different qualities, steel joints have a different "report" than wood joints, to me that's the only substantial difference, I like wood slightly better. All the other stuff I couldn't tell unless I broke down the cue.
 
PGHteacher said:
Different joints have different qualities, steel joints have a different "report" than wood joints, to me that's the only substantial difference, I like wood slightly better. All the other stuff I couldn't tell unless I broke down the cue.
Click to expand...
According to an experiment John McChesney did years ago at a tournament, in blind tests players can't tell the difference between joint types. My belief is that if a joint is solidly constructed and tight, its nature is more or less undetectable.

I think better reasons to select a joint is whether it will be durable and whether it will remain tight during play. When you see a player constantly tightening his cue during a match, ask him after the match what kind of cue/joint he has. Then avoid that type.
 
It's a facinating topic. It's also been beat to death around here for years. Common points are that it's a matter of personal preference. There are a million variables, well, a hundred anyway. Tip, shaftwood, joint collar material, butt and shaft weight, butt wood, low deflection shafts vs maple shafts.

Popular tips include Moori Medium, Kamui Black Med and soft, Triangle, Pressed Elkmaster etc. There are many more.

Ferrule material. I forgot that above. I like ivory and linen based melamine. Old micarta is very good but also very hard to find.

We almost ALL like heavy, dense shaftwood, with many annular rings, unless the player likes an LD (low deflection) shaft. Then there are many choices.

I have decided after playing pool for 50 years that I like wood to wood joints. The collar could be phenolic or ivory, and I've heard that a sleeved SS collar plays very well, but I haven't tried one yet. I like all the big pins, Radial, 3/8X11, 3/8X10. It seems to me that with a big pin and a wood to wood joint you get a nice level of feedback from the hit, but again, that's a matter of personal preference. I've also come to favor wrapless cues lately, but I like leather too. Many better players than I like a SS joint with a piloted smaller pin and an Irish linen wrap. Go figure....and that's what you have to do...go figure it out for yourself :p. Just have fun doing it !
 
Bob Jewett said:
According to an experiment John McChesney did years ago at a tournament, in blind tests players can't tell the difference between joint types. My belief is that if a joint is solidly constructed and tight, its nature is more or less undetectable.
...
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Maybe it is in my imagination, but the wood joint cue has a softer hit/feel. Both Mezz cues, both have Alpha shaft and Moori Med tip.
 
opinions, we all have one

i personally like my wood pin with a wood to wood flat face joint. its probally just in my mind, but i think wood to wood will transfer more feel than wood to steel to wood.
and that is what makes it work for me, I THINK wood to wood is better, so, i play better with wood to wood.
 
ronscuba said:
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wj.jpg


Maybe it is in my imagination, but the wood joint cue has a softer hit/feel. Both Mezz cues, both have Alpha shaft and Moori Med tip.
Click to expand...

Not your imagination. Look at the size of the big pin. It is significantly smaller than the shaft insert on the small pin cue. At the face of the joint, there's less wood on the small pin cue. The big pin cues have more wood:wood surface contact. At what point does the amount of wood:wood contact become noticeable? I don't know. My suspicion is that it's relative to the individual player's sensitivity. If you personally feel a difference, then there's a difference. Somebody else may not feel a difference, so there is no difference. This is why it's great that we have options.
 
Bob Jewett said:
According to an experiment John McChesney did years ago at a tournament, in blind tests players can't tell the difference between joint types. My belief is that if a joint is solidly constructed and tight, its nature is more or less undetectable.

I think better reasons to select a joint is whether it will be durable and whether it will remain tight during play. When you see a player constantly tightening his cue during a match, ask him after the match what kind of cue/joint he has. Then avoid that type.
Click to expand...

I did this test one time with all sorts of joint materials and pin sizes, steel, wood to wood, capped ivory, 3/8x10 steel, 3/8x11 brass, radial g-10, etc. My results were the same, when handed a cue blindfolded and hitting the cue ball, it was impossible for me to tell the difference.

-dj
 
qbilder said:
Not your imagination. Look at the size of the big pin. It is significantly smaller than the shaft insert on the small pin cue. At the face of the joint, there's less wood on the small pin cue. The big pin cues have more wood:wood surface contact. At what point does the amount of wood:wood contact become noticeable? I don't know. My suspicion is that it's relative to the individual player's sensitivity. If you personally feel a difference, then there's a difference. Somebody else may not feel a difference, so there is no difference. This is why it's great that we have options.
Click to expand...

Yep, options and opinions. I guess the overall feel for a cue comes from the combination of all the different parts, but with all else equal, you can feel a difference between joints. At least in my case I did and so did my wife.
 
Has anyone ever used Micarta for the shaft joint material instead of a wood insert?
 
First, thank you to everyone who took the time to reply!

I think this question begs another question.

What would you say actually gives a cue a solid hit?

if not the joint? The shaft obviously plays a factor along with tip. But if you take any butt with decent construction put an after market shaft with a good tip then in theory it should be just as good as a schon or joss or south west or any other cue with reputation of a solid hit... Thoughts?


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android
 
tpdtom said:
It's a facinating topic. It's also been beat to death around here for years. Common points are that it's a matter of personal preference. There are a million variables, well, a hundred anyway. Tip, shaftwood, joint collar material, butt and shaft weight, butt wood, low deflection shafts vs maple shafts.

Popular tips include Moori Medium, Kamui Black Med and soft, Triangle, Pressed Elkmaster etc. There are many more.

Ferrule material. I forgot that above. I like ivory and linen based melamine. Old micarta is very good but also very hard to find.

We almost ALL like heavy, dense shaftwood, with many annular rings, unless the player likes an LD (low deflection) shaft. Then there are many choices.

I have decided after playing pool for 50 years that I like wood to wood joints. The collar could be phenolic or ivory, and I've heard that a sleeved SS collar plays very well, but I haven't tried one yet. I like all the big pins, Radial, 3/8X11, 3/8X10. It seems to me that with a big pin and a wood to wood joint you get a nice level of feedback from the hit, but again, that's a matter of personal preference. I've also come to favor wrapless cues lately, but I like leather too. Many better players than I like a SS joint with a piloted smaller pin and an Irish linen wrap. Go figure....and that's what you have to do...go figure it out for yourself :p. Just have fun doing it !
Click to expand...

Why is old Micarta good versus say, new Micarta? Does Micarta last indefinitely and thereby provide a tighter fit for a longer period of time?
Thanks,
JoeyA
 
tpdtom said:
It's a facinating topic. It's also been beat to death around here for years. Common points are that it's a matter of personal preference. There are a million variables, well, a hundred anyway. Tip, shaftwood, joint collar material, butt and shaft weight, butt wood, low deflection shafts vs maple shafts.

Popular tips include Moori Medium, Kamui Black Med and soft, Triangle, Pressed Elkmaster etc. There are many more.

Ferrule material. I forgot that above. I like ivory and linen based melamine. Old micarta is very good but also very hard to find.

We almost ALL like heavy, dense shaftwood, with many annular rings, unless the player likes an LD (low deflection) shaft. Then there are many choices.

I have decided after playing pool for 50 years that I like wood to wood joints. The collar could be phenolic or ivory, and I've heard that a sleeved SS collar plays very well, but I haven't tried one yet. I like all the big pins, Radial, 3/8X11, 3/8X10. It seems to me that with a big pin and a wood to wood joint you get a nice level of feedback from the hit, but again, that's a matter of personal preference. I've also come to favor wrapless cues lately, but I like leather too. Many better players than I like a SS joint with a piloted smaller pin and an Irish linen wrap. Go figure....and that's what you have to do...go figure it out for yourself . Just have fun doing it !
Click to expand...

My only worry with wood to wood is the lifetime. I don't picture it laying as long as stainless steel.




Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android
 
tpdtom said:
It's a facinating topic. It's also been beat to death around here for years. Common points are that it's a matter of personal preference. There are a million variables, well, a hundred anyway. Tip, shaftwood, joint collar material, butt and shaft weight, butt wood, low deflection shafts vs maple shafts.

Popular tips include Moori Medium, Kamui Black Med and soft, Triangle, Pressed Elkmaster etc. There are many more.

Ferrule material. I forgot that above. I like ivory and linen based melamine. Old micarta is very good but also very hard to find.

We almost ALL like heavy, dense shaftwood, with many annular rings, unless the player likes an LD (low deflection) shaft. Then there are many choices.

I have decided after playing pool for 50 years that I like wood to wood joints. The collar could be phenolic or ivory, and I've heard that a sleeved SS collar plays very well, but I haven't tried one yet. I like all the big pins, Radial, 3/8X11, 3/8X10. It seems to me that with a big pin and a wood to wood joint you get a nice level of feedback from the hit, but again, that's a matter of personal preference. I've also come to favor wrapless cues lately, but I like leather too. Many better players than I like a SS joint with a piloted smaller pin and an Irish linen wrap. Go figure....and that's what you have to do...go figure it out for yourself . Just have fun doing it !
Click to expand...


Btw, thanks for your post.

I am new to Pool so i don't know about all the cue materials.

What is Micarta?




Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android
 
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