judging and clocking another player

[ShootingArts]

Someone was just asking if there was any subject we hadn't flogged to death on here already and this is something that I do think would be of huge benefit to some.

How do you clock another player?

Not the guy that is playing his heart out and laying it all on the table, the people that are stalling just a little or really laying down a stall? I worked at both sides of this for many years when I was gambling, hiding my speed and rating others trying to do the same thing.

From the time the other person walks in the door all through when they are playing you, what are you looking for? What are the signs large and small that you use to judge a player's true speed?

Hu

 

[ftgokie]

Someone was just asking if there was any subject we hadn't flogged to death on here already and this is something that I do think would be of huge benefit to some.

How do you clock another player?

Not the guy that is playing his heart out and laying it all on the table, the people that are stalling just a little or really laying down a stall? I worked at both sides of this for many years when I was gambling, hiding my speed and rating others trying to do the same thing.

From the time the other person walks in the door all through when they are playing you, what are you looking for? What are the signs large and small that you use to judge a player's true speed?

Hu

Me personally....if I see someone walk in the pool hall wearing a black t shirt with VINCENT in white lettering.....I try to not play them!

 

[Cuebuddy]

The few things that I look for are easy to fake but I watch the subtle things like chalking and the bridge. Of course the equipment they bring in or choose before play can sometimes be a hint. I have also learned to trust my gut feelings and am right much of the time sometimes it's something that you can't put your finger on.

 

[ShootingArts]

a thousand and one things

The few things that I look for are easy to fake but I watch the subtle things like chalking and the bridge. Of course the equipment they bring in or choose before play can sometimes be a hint. I have also learned to trust my gut feelings and am right much of the time sometimes it's something that you can't put your finger on.

That is the thing, an experienced player is getting a thousand and one signals about the other player mostly processed below the conscious level. From the time a person walks through the door, are they in a strange place or are they "home"? Same thing around the table. Are they comfortable? How do they interact with the table itself? How do they make balls, how do they miss balls? How do they handle the stick? The list is very long starting with their eyes and demeanor when they walk through the door.

I met a fellow AZB'er in Dallas last year. I was the first one in the pool hall and didn't say anything when he set up on a nearby table. He came in with a friend which I wasn't expecting and I was playing a local that had asked. However we both were reasonably sure who the other was without ever having seen a picture of the other one. Just the little giveaways that are very hard to hide, not that either of us were trying to hide anything at the time.

Hu

 

[sixpack]

Someone was just asking if there was any subject we hadn't flogged to death on here already and this is something that I do think would be of huge benefit to some.

How do you clock another player?

Not the guy that is playing his heart out and laying it all on the table, the people that are stalling just a little or really laying down a stall? I worked at both sides of this for many years when I was gambling, hiding my speed and rating others trying to do the same thing.

From the time the other person walks in the door all through when they are playing you, what are you looking for? What are the signs large and small that you use to judge a player's true speed?

Hu

There are about a million subconscious signals. But here are some that have risen to the conscious level for me:

1) If a player doesn't take off their jacket - good indication road player or hustler.
2) If they watch the cue ball all the way until it stops on misses early in the session they are probably still gauging the table and intentionally missing. But they are watching intently to save for later when they need it.
3) If the wins and losses are too 'even'. i.e. if you are losing or winning every third game. You're not in control.
4) I always watch which hand they chalk with, drink with and which pocket they have their keys in to try and figure out if they are playing right or wrong handed.
5) When you're talking, there's a slight aggressiveness to a good players 'jump' on a bet. Hard to define this one, but if you've heard it, you know what I mean. The masters don't have this, you feel like you're the one controlling the pace of the bets.
6) If a player is playing with a house cue and they are 'really' keeping track of it. Look out. I don't mean a sneaky. I mean a house cue that they have figured out.

That's enough off the top of my head.

~rc

 

[gunzby]

Stance, bridge, chalking and the occasional shot they just can't deal with missing. Watch their eyes and head. When their head is pointed towards the point of a corner pocket and it stays for a moment it means they want that ball to be there.

 

[Klink]

I once moved to a new town and of course is wasnt long before i found the local pool hall. I was sitting at the bar the second night i was there, and there was some woffing going on. I had never hit a ball in this place and nobody knew me. The owner of the place starts in and next thing i know he makes a game for stoch doubles, a hundred a game per person, he can pick anyone in the room he wants as his partner. Guess who he picks? me of course! I became good friends with him, but he never would tell me how he knew I could play. Im not sure till this day day he really knew how he could tell.

 

[Rocket354]

From the time a person walks through the door, are they in a strange place or are they "home"? Same thing around the table. Are they comfortable? How do they interact with the table itself? How do they make balls, how do they miss balls? How do they handle the stick? The list is very long starting with their eyes and demeanor when they walk through the door.

Hu

I agree with this. I think it all boils down to one word: confidence. Not arrogance, but confidence.

I played a tournament recently, and during the practice beforehand a player on the next table was missing every other shot. But the rest of him screamed confidence. His gait, his stroke, his focus, his demeanor all told me he was a very good player. All other aspects of his game just seemed way too good for his results. He kept looking over at our table, and my buddy wanted to play him for money but I just shook my head. Sure enough, once the tournament started the player never missed a shot and won handily.

On the flip side is arrogance. I was shooting late one night by myself and a guy walks in with his girl and a few buddies and just brashly walks up to me and offers (nearly demands) that we play for money. His chest all puffed out, a huge grin on his face, friends who clearly were non-players watching, I took him up on it. "Ok guys, give me some time to win our table time for tonight!" he called over his shoulder as he started racking. I'm not a great player by any means, but I beat him pretty handily for a good amount.

 

[RiverCity]

The break is a big one that even top players have a hard time hiding. Some will go ahead and hit them hard with control, others, and here is the one to watch for..... a softer break, like they dont seem to care about it. But oddly enough they are making balls consistantly, and putting the cue ball where they want it for the low ball (ie the 1 is coming down to the kitchen.... the cue ball is coming back too).
How are they moving the cueball..... lots of draw..... no big worries; force following through the corners? Worry. Lots of sidespin for no reason? No worries...... Little bit here and there, with reverse side spin being used well? Worry.
Playing the proper patterns and positions even though their stroke seems a little wobbly or awkward? Worry.
Chuck

 

[ShootingArts]

ouch!

The break is a big one that even top players have a hard time hiding. Some will go ahead and hit them hard with control, others, and here is the one to watch for..... a softer break, like they dont seem to care about it. But oddly enough they are making balls consistantly, and putting the cue ball where they want it for the low ball (ie the 1 is coming down to the kitchen.... the cue ball is coming back too).
How are they moving the cueball..... lots of draw..... no big worries; force following through the corners? Worry. Lots of sidespin for no reason? No worries...... Little bit here and there, with reverse side spin being used well? Worry.
Playing the proper patterns and positions even though their stroke seems a little wobbly or awkward? Worry.
Chuck

I usually got away with force follow! Too many "lucky rolls" can bust you or warn you about somebody else too. I had a sneaky varmint scout me for three nights before deciding to pass on playing me so then we talked. He admired my level of play and I gave my usual response about the balls rolling good and luck. He said, "The first night I thought you were lucky, the second night I still thought it might be luck, the third night, nobody in the world gets that lucky three nights in a row!"

Fortunately very few were as canny as that fellow or scouted me that long before playing. He told me his name but back then I couldn't have named a half-dozen road players and I have long ago forgotten it. I don't know if he was known either. It was quite possible to fly under the radar even twenty-five years ago.

Hu

 

[androd]

How do you clock another player?


what are you looking for? What are the signs large and small that you use to judge a player's true speed?

Hu

My bankroll, if it's large they can't play, if it's small, they musta been able to play some.