I was looking thru one of the Byrne books and he has a section called something like, "Shots that made my jaw drop". And one of the shots is a jump shot over the first ball. Now, it's a rare shot even in pool outside 9 ball, but I've never seen anyone shoot a jump in 3C, pro or otherwise. It's up there with using the bridge - always seems like laying across the table or shooting lefty is preferable. If all else fails, maybe a rail first or a masse. I was just curious - have you ever seen a serious player do a jump shot, and/or can you think of a position where there is really no other choice?
Jump Shots?
- Thread starter eze123
- Start date
Might as well Jump...
I was under the impression that jump shots were illegal in 3C.
I was under the impression that jump shots were illegal in 3C.
Str8PoolMan said:
You're thinking snooker, maybe? Unless I misread it, under USBA rules, it's only a foul if it touches the wood of the rail or off the table. There are hard draws and such, even outside artistic billiards where the ball will hop up off the table.
The bit I'm talking about is actually online:
http://books.google.com/books?id=tA...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result
11. When the cue ball bounces and rides the cushion of the rail and returns to the playing surface, the ball is in play. It shall count as one cushion contacted (impacted), regardless of the number of impacts contacted on that cushion. If the cue ball rides two or more rails, each rail will count as one cushion contacted. If the cue ball comes to rest on top of the cushion of the rail, it is considered a jumped ball, which is a foul, and the player's inning ends. If the cue ball or either of the other two balls touches the FRAME of the rail it is a foul and the player's inning ends. If the opponent's ball or the red ball bounces and rides the cushion of the rail without touching the frame of the rail these balls are also in play.
to help EZE there.......
Say eze, if I am not mistaken, I think it is legit to jump in carom. In snooker, on the other hand, it is illegal to jump over another ball (much less to jump if I am not mistaken). But what is quite ironic is the fact that I have seen Alex "Hurricane" Higgens use slight jump on a masse shot before and I really don't know if it is legal or not-- that is just the confusing part none-the-less. BTW, how's balkline and your 3C going?
Say eze, if I am not mistaken, I think it is legit to jump in carom. In snooker, on the other hand, it is illegal to jump over another ball (much less to jump if I am not mistaken). But what is quite ironic is the fact that I have seen Alex "Hurricane" Higgens use slight jump on a masse shot before and I really don't know if it is legal or not-- that is just the confusing part none-the-less. BTW, how's balkline and your 3C going?
I played a bit last night and jumped the CB off the rail and over the edge of 2nd ball to come back around.
Nobody hollered anything when I scored the hit...at least not in English!
Nobody hollered anything when I scored the hit...at least not in English!
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I don't recall seeing any jump shot that was not an artistic billiards (set-up) shot. It's possible to set up special positions in which the jump shot, if you have practiced it, is arguably the best shot to shoot, but not many people practice them.eze123 said:
A simple jump shot demo can be done by putting the two object balls exactly one ball apart. Jump the cue ball between them to continue around the table for a cushions-first shot.
Jumping off one object ball to go over another and then complete the score is a little trickier to set up.
Here are two cuetable diagrams for a jump shot I play frequently in matches. They probably aren't the big jumps you might be hoping for, but are practical in play:
Two variations on a practical jump shot
I think jumping to make super-thin hits easier is probably the most practical application in billiards. With a wide enough shot repertoire, there is usually a better level-cue option that can be shot without having to worry about extra complications.
I intend to explore 3C jumping more (artistic and otherwise) once I get my hands on a jump cue with a tip that allows for decent offsets for combining spin with jumping. The X-jumper looked promising, but now that's not really an option anymore. I think there is still much to explore in that space that has been ignored by the traditional artistic crowd.
Robert
Two variations on a practical jump shot
I think jumping to make super-thin hits easier is probably the most practical application in billiards. With a wide enough shot repertoire, there is usually a better level-cue option that can be shot without having to worry about extra complications.
I intend to explore 3C jumping more (artistic and otherwise) once I get my hands on a jump cue with a tip that allows for decent offsets for combining spin with jumping. The X-jumper looked promising, but now that's not really an option anymore. I think there is still much to explore in that space that has been ignored by the traditional artistic crowd.
Robert
SlickRick_PCS said:
yep.... illegal to make an ANY type of jump.
No offense, but I'm inclined to go with Bob Raiford on this one.
I believe the comment was originally made on snooker, not 3C, quoth Slick Rick:
"In snooker, on the other hand, it is illegal to jump over another ball (much less to jump if I am not mistaken)."
Totally illegal to jump in snooker, totally legal to jump in billiards, just not a good choice.
Explain this to me though, only the cue ball can't leave the table? You can hop the object ball no problem? Like freaking 8 ball ball, too many godamn rules, Billiards is so simple, a four year old could understand the rules, but infinitely difficult.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Saxpfsx1KZ8
"In snooker, on the other hand, it is illegal to jump over another ball (much less to jump if I am not mistaken)."
Totally illegal to jump in snooker, totally legal to jump in billiards, just not a good choice.
Explain this to me though, only the cue ball can't leave the table? You can hop the object ball no problem? Like freaking 8 ball ball, too many godamn rules, Billiards is so simple, a four year old could understand the rules, but infinitely difficult.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Saxpfsx1KZ8
eze123 said:
Even in snooker it can be legal to jump over a ball. I believe that the rule is that you may not jump over a ball that snookers you from the ball on. So, for example, if you are on red, you may jump over one red to hit another red. I recall seeing a snooker "blooper" video in which someone did just that. I'm no snooker rule expert, and I would like to hear from someone who is about this.
Mark
Technically, most shots in billiard games are jump shots (at least, medium speed and above) since they are played with a slight elevation that (combined with squirt) causes the ball to jump.
See, for example, Dr. Dave's video showing jumping coins using a "level" follow shot:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-13.htm
The rails prevent the butt of the cue from being low enough on most shots to launch the cue ball parallel to the table with center ball or follow. It is possible to shoot with just enough draw to cancel the squirt and not jump, but even that becomes impossible at a certain distance from the rail that depends on how much squirt the cue has.
The jumping effect causes over-cutting of the object ball when it's close to the cue ball and they contact while the cue ball is airborne. That creates a shallower carom angle than normal in addition to the thinner cut. After a certain "settling" distance the ball stops bouncing and moves smoothly on the cloth, but you can miss certain shots (close cuts in pool and force-follows in 3C, for example) if you don't account for the jumping during the settling period.
Robert
See, for example, Dr. Dave's video showing jumping coins using a "level" follow shot:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-13.htm
The rails prevent the butt of the cue from being low enough on most shots to launch the cue ball parallel to the table with center ball or follow. It is possible to shoot with just enough draw to cancel the squirt and not jump, but even that becomes impossible at a certain distance from the rail that depends on how much squirt the cue has.
The jumping effect causes over-cutting of the object ball when it's close to the cue ball and they contact while the cue ball is airborne. That creates a shallower carom angle than normal in addition to the thinner cut. After a certain "settling" distance the ball stops bouncing and moves smoothly on the cloth, but you can miss certain shots (close cuts in pool and force-follows in 3C, for example) if you don't account for the jumping during the settling period.
Robert
mbvl said:
Man, that's confusing. What if you go over the red and hit a non-red in without meaning to?
Not to go off topic, but since Robert, Jim, and Bob have poked their heads in, and SlickRick and I are the only ones that ever talk about the small games, just curious, do any of you ever play straight rail? Interested if you do or not, and what you get out of it, if anything. I start playing around with it, and it's really humbling to see how really little you know about the action off a rail when you have to be precise. Over 3,4 rails you can use the whole ball or rail or corner, and say push the balls out to the middle of the table, but when you need to come in exactly in say a one inch area and all three balls need to end up exactly so, man,
it's frustrating, there are times when I feel I don't have the slightest clue about how to play
I can sympathize. My English Billiards learning has not progressed at the 'lightning-fast' pace I'd hoped for (though my 3 cushion game really wasn't strong enough for me to legitimately hope it would. Still, would have been nice :smile: )
I blame the rails!
I blame the rails!
Actually, I was practicing straight rail last night until I was interrupted by a 3-cushion game. As for what I get out of it, I find it as fun and challenging as any other cue game. I've even gone so far as to take lessons, but I'm afraid that I haven't spent the follow-up time to make all the lessons effective.eze123 said:
Hi there,mbvl said:
Actually the shot you described would indeed be a foul, but it can be legal in snooker to jump the cue-ball.
A jump shot is made when the cue-ball passes over any part of an object ball, whether touching it in the process or not, except however:
(a) when the cue-ball first strikes one object ball and then jumps over another ball,
(b) when the cue-ball jumps and strikes an object ball, but does not land on the far side of that ball,
(c) when, after striking an object ball lawfully, the cue-ball jumps over that ball after hitting a cushion or another ball.
Best wishes.
Alan.