Jump sticks have changed the game

The_JV said:
Here's a question to all...

Does anyone have an issue with a player shooting directly into a rail to create a rebounding/jumping action...? I mean it still totally negates the need to learn to kick right...? No jump stick required though ;)
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Totally legal shot and this shot was probably already around in the nineteenth century. As far as I know, the only jumps that are expressly forbidden in the rules are a) the scoop. and b) a jump with a cue that is less than 40" in length.
 
sjm said:
Totally legal shot and this shot was probably already around in the nineteenth century. As far as I know, the only jumps that are expressly forbidden in the rules are a) the scoop. and b) a jump with a cue that is less than 40" in length.
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maha said:
that is legal. and should be as you are using the cushion to have the ball jump. but still that makes using the space above the table and really isnt in the true spirit of pool.
jumping is a subject that has many opinions. so only what the rules allow settles the issue.
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Thanks guys... I hadn't heard of a set of rules that would disallow such a shot.

What I was curious about is if this particular style of jump shot is acceptable by those who distain the art of hopping a ball with a direct strike of the cue. You did comment as such Maha, and I commend the continued stance of the vertical domain being 'not pool'.

I guess my take on jumping as a whole, is merely where you draw the line. A player can easily hop over the edge of a blocker with his player. Once it begins to take force for the vertical move, then what's the difference in swapping in a breaker for sake of 'tip protection' for that shot, and swapping in a cue to perform the jump...? I carry a jump/break from the Falcon/Varner era. Jumping with it at full length is totally doable, but difficult to stop before burying the tip into the table.

The breaker morphed from being a player with a harder tip, to a cue designed specifically for maximizing break performance. No one really seems to have a problem with it. The jumper switched from being a smaller section of a full length cue, to what it is now for sake of jump performance. I get that the tech in the jumper has made life easy for most just looking to get a ball in the air. However that's where the tech ends and skill of the player is forced to do the rest.

Although I'm as 'pro jumper' as anyone. I wouldn't have a problem with events that would only allow a single cue. No jumper, no breaker. Any top notch player worth his ass has more than one playing shaft. Tip blow outs really aren't that big of a deal imo.
 
Personally I wouldn't mind if jump cues were banned, but they won't be because there is money to be made.

I invested a lot of time, years ago, to get very proficient with a jump cue, to a level where I can play position with sidespin, draw and follow and make balls extremely reliably. I've neglected practising for a few years now, but let me tell you, most people can't jump for sh... Even pros are not good at it, compared to how well they play other shots. Whenever my opponent pulls out a jump cue, I smile. For most players it's a very high likelyhood they will miss or even foul. Most players also jump when they should kick and also the opposite. They select the wrong shot a high percentage of the time. Likewise, especially when I practised the jump shot a lot, it won me more matches than any other skill.

Instead of being salty about jump cues, invest some time in learning how to do it properly. If you put in just a few hours a week, you will be better than 99.9% of every player, providing you practise correctly. I cringe when I see pros over-elevating their cue and bouncing the cueball all over the place with no control at all. It's ugly. You can get better than that with very little time invested.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Instead of being salty about jump cues, invest some time in learning how to do it properly. If you put in just a few hours a week, you will be better than 99.9% of every player, providing you practise correctly. I cringe when I see pros over-elevating their cue and bouncing the cueball all over the place with no control at all. It's ugly. You can get better than that with very little time invested.
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Against weak jumpers, I’ve been known to push out intentionally into a position where a jump is a good option but a kick is problematic. As often as not I’m either rewarded with ball in hand when they miss the object ball, or an opportunity to regain control of the table if I’m told to shoot again.

Just another tool...
 
JB Cases said:
People were shaft jumping in the 80s. My first "jump" cue was a dowel that installed a pin into for one of my shafts. That was 1991.

Sammy Jones did a video on jumping using meucci jump cues in the late 80s.
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Straightpool_99 said:
Personally I wouldn't mind if jump cues were banned, but they won't be because there is money to be made.

I invested a lot of time, years ago, to get very proficient with a jump cue, to a level where I can play position with sidespin, draw and follow and make balls extremely reliably. I've neglected practising for a few years now, but let me tell you, most people can't jump for sh... Even pros are not good at it, compared to how well they play other shots. Whenever my opponent pulls out a jump cue, I smile. For most players it's a very high likelyhood they will miss or even foul. Most players also jump when they should kick and also the opposite. They select the wrong shot a high percentage of the time. Likewise, especially when I practised the jump shot a lot, it won me more matches than any other skill.

Instead of being salty about jump cues, invest some time in learning how to do it properly. If you put in just a few hours a week, you will be better than 99.9% of every player, providing you practise correctly. I cringe when I see pros over-elevating their cue and bouncing the cueball all over the place with no control at all. It's ugly. You can get better than that with very little time invested.
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There in lies the problem it's a catch-22. The occasional jump shot in a pool room doesn't really bother anybody it doesn't honestly come up that much. But the guy spending 90 minutes practicing jumping, that guy is getting thrown out.

Unless you have your own table really learning to jump is going to be kind of difficult. You can use a pad for jumping off of to practice it changes the ball's reaction a little bit but at least you developed a fundamental. You can even use a piece of carpet sample as a landing pad.
 
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middleofnowhere said:
There in lies the problem it's a catch-22. The occasional jump shot in a pool room doesn't really bother anybody it doesn't honestly come up that much. But the guy spending 90 minutes practicing jumping, that guy is getting thrown out.

Unless you have your own table really learning to jump is going to be kind of difficult. You can use a pad for jumping off of to practice it changes the ball's reaction a little bit but at least you developed a fundamental.
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Talk with the houseman and use a spare bit of cloth under the cueball. It's better than nothing. I think the number one thing people do wrong is over-elevating and not controlling where the cueball lands. They're happy to clear the object ball and don't really refine their technique to the level needed. I think you can practise that just as well with the "pad" as without, keeping in mind that you may need a tiny change when you play without it. Also, you can easily learn putting draw and other english on the ball with the pad, and it will transfer to real life conditions. Naturally, the stance and stroke won't be changed so that bit will also transfer. If the houseman is a real fudd, you could have a complete "long strip" of cloth all the way to the object ball. It still will teach where the cueball lands and technique, though the spin won't work. I think the most important thing learned is how to land on the object ball, or at a specific point on the way there to make sure it's not bouncing.
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
Personally I wouldn't mind if jump cues were banned, but they won't be because there is money to be made.
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I'd be cool if 'jumping' in general was banned. Truth is, jump sticks increase control and lower the likelyhood of actual table damage.

Thunderous breaks at the beginning of every rack wear a groove into tables. The random spattering of jump stick attempts will never equal that level of cloth damage.

Honeslty..., I think the only time I ever fear for a table is when I see someone attempting a full cue jump.
 
The_JV said:
I'd be cool if 'jumping' in general was banned. Truth is, jump sticks increase control and lower the likelyhood of actual table damage.

Thunderous breaks at the beginning of every rack wear a groove into tables. The random spattering of jump stick attempts will never equal that level of cloth damage.

Honeslty..., I think the only time I ever fear for a table is when I see someone attempting a full cue jump.
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^^^ This exactly ^^^
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I invested a lot of time, years ago, to get very proficient with a jump cue, to a level where I can play position with sidespin, draw and follow and make balls extremely reliably. I've neglected practising for a few years now, but let me tell you, most people can't jump for sh... Even pros are not good at it, compared to how well they play other shots. Whenever my opponent pulls out a jump cue, I smile. For most players it's a very high likelyhood they will miss or even foul. Most players also jump when they should kick and also the opposite. They select the wrong shot a high percentage of the time. Likewise, especially when I practised the jump shot a lot, it won me more matches than any other skill.

Instead of being salty about jump cues, invest some time in learning how to do it properly. If you put in just a few hours a week, you will be better than 99.9% of every player, providing you practise correctly. I cringe when I see pros over-elevating their cue and bouncing the cueball all over the place with no control at all. It's ugly. You can get better than that with very little time invested.
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I can't say that I purposely invested time into learning to jump. I did however take every opprotunity to do so.

My jumper is piss poor compared to today's specialized equipment, but what it does for me is set limits. I cannot reliably hop over a full ball unless it's at least 6" away. That's not great, but once I'm that far a part I'm >90% to hit the OB and I'd venture ~50% to pot it. Nice controlled jump at less then half the power of my break. Which translates to less burn on the cloth.

I also enjoy it when I see opponents grab for their short cues. In my neck of the woods, successful hits are a plenty but controlled outcomes have to be near 10%. ...and that includes the strongest players.
 
The_JV said:
I'd be cool if 'jumping' in general was banned. Truth is, jump sticks increase control and lower the likelyhood of actual table damage.

Thunderous breaks at the beginning of every rack wear a groove into tables. The random spattering of jump stick attempts will never equal that level of cloth damage.

Honeslty..., I think the only time I ever fear for a table is when I see someone attempting a full cue jump.
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The game is meant to be played. Honestly there are so many fuddy-duddys out there. No masses, no jumps, whats next, no breaks? Every power shot, the ball jumps. Every time you elevate and shoot hard (power draws) you put burns on the cloth. Honestly, some people should play with a mace and be done with it, or put a big plate of glass over their table so nobody can play on it, thus solving all their problems.

Snooker and blackball ban jumps. They don't ban masses. If you truely hate jump shots, those are the games for you. But really, there is room for interpretation. If you have a shot that barely is obstructed by the object ball and you shoot a power draw or power follow, the cueball jumps. In theory (and sometimes practise) that is a foul in snooker. IMO it leads to absurd rulings.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Personally I wouldn't mind if jump cues were banned, but they won't be because there is money to be made.

I invested a lot of time, years ago, to get very proficient with a jump cue, to a level where I can play position with sidespin, draw and follow and make balls extremely reliably. I've neglected practising for a few years now, but let me tell you, most people can't jump for sh... Even pros are not good at it, compared to how well they play other shots. Whenever my opponent pulls out a jump cue, I smile. For most players it's a very high likelyhood they will miss or even foul. Most players also jump when they should kick and also the opposite. They select the wrong shot a high percentage of the time. Likewise, especially when I practised the jump shot a lot, it won me more matches than any other skill.

Instead of being salty about jump cues, invest some time in learning how to do it properly. If you put in just a few hours a week, you will be better than 99.9% of every player, providing you practise correctly. I cringe when I see pros over-elevating their cue and bouncing the cueball all over the place with no control at all. It's ugly. You can get better than that with very little time invested.
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When I started practicing the jump cue I started watching others use there's (shot selection, execution, etc.) and VERY quickly determined nobody really knows how to jump - including me :) There's a local player here (550-575) who was bragging about jumping one day (I can jump and stick, I can jump and cut, etc.).

That was close to 2 years ago - I've never seen him make a jump a shot and I'm guessing I've seen him try 1/2 dozen or more.


This guy knows how to jump! I used this to learn short jumps when I was practicing. I didn't put nearly enough time into the jump cue but if I did this type of control would be the goal.




And this is just funny...

 
Chili Palmer said:
When I started practicing the jump cue I started watching others use there's (shot selection, execution, etc.) and VERY quickly determined nobody really knows how to jump - including me :) There's a local player here (550-575) who was bragging about jumping one day (I can jump and stick, I can jump and cut, etc.).

That was close to 2 years ago - I've never seen him make a jump a shot and I'm guessing I've seen him try 1/2 dozen or more.


This guy knows how to jump! I used this to learn short jumps when I was practicing. I didn't put nearly enough time into the jump cue but if I did this type of control would be the goal.




And this is just funny...

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If you want to learn to make crazy jumps like these, you must learn to land on the ball and also put a little bit of draw on. Landing on the ball is also the key to get great draw action. I made a shot quite similar to the first shot he made in a national championship. Believe me, it can be done even by mere mortals like myself.

If you put the time in to learn landing on the ball on the easier jumps, you can quickly find yourself making shots similar to these. Once you do that, try to put some heavy draw action on the cueball. Set up a jump shot nearly straight in and draw as far as your tip. Your game will never be the same again.
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
If you want to learn to make crazy jumps like these, you must learn to land on the ball and also put a little bit of draw on. Landing on the ball is also the key to get great draw action. I made a shot quite similar to the first shot he made in a national championship. Believe me, it can be done even by mere mortals like myself.

If you put the time in to learn landing on the ball on the easier jumps, you can quickly find yourself making shots similar to these. Once you do that, try to put some heavy draw action on the cueball. Set up a shot straight in and draw to your tip. Your game will never be the same again.
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I can draw and follow on jump shots - but not with consistent results. I quit practicing right about the time I learned to follow and draw so that explains why it's inconsistent - which I'm well aware of ;) I'm confident enough in my abilities to know that if I did practice enough I would also be very efficient with the jump cue - I simply like kicking more because I can control the CB much better.


And funny sidebar - I've watched that video a zillion times and I just now realized it was posted by Tanner Pruess. I don't know Tanner personally but I have met him and he's a good guy. He also recently started a training program and we are working on getting him to Boise.
 
Even at the pro level, fedor gorst aside, jumps are typically sell outs. I'm also seeing plenty of kicking going on at the pro level. Safety play is evolving as well. Get closer to blockers, leave distance and don't leave the ob near a pocket, it's not rocket science, although there is a lot of physics involved.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
 
erhino41 said:
Even at the pro level, fedor gorst aside, jumps are typically sell outs. I'm also seeing plenty of kicking going on at the pro level. Safety play is evolving as well. Get closer to blockers, leave distance and don't leave the ob near a pocket - or a rail, it's not rocket science, although there is a lot of physics involved.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
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I added the bold part, leave the OB in the middle of nowhere ;)
 
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