Jump sticks have changed the game

[middleofnowhere]

Obviously so, but the debate is over when jump cues entered the mainstream, and there's no way that was before 1995. Few players carried them until then, and even then, most didn't.

Full cue jumps go back to the nineteenth century. Former AZB poster extraordinaire Hemicudas shared that the first jump shot with a short cue was in about 1970, and was performed by Marcus Collier, arguably the greatest ever bumper pool player, who was, at the time, playing in a pool event. He used his bumper pool cue, which looked awfully similar to the modern jump cue, to execute a jump shot at the pool table, and it was said that this caused pool players to take notice of the fact that a jump is more easily executed with a short cue. Some suggest that this was the day the jump cue was invented.

If you think there were many jump cues around in the 1980s, you are mistaken.

Pat Fleming pretty much invented the light weight jump cue. The jump/break cues were around in the mid 80s and a lot of players had them. In no time most cue companies had them in their line of cues.

That's funny your comment about the bumper pool player, you made that same post 13 years ago.

 

[sjm]

Pat Fleming pretty much invented the light weight jump cue. The jump/break cues were around in the mid 80s and a lot of players had them. In no time most cue companies had them in their line of cues.

Yes, I knew Pat back then and played pool against him on occasion at the Golden Q in Queens, NY. In about 1986, it seemed he showed up with a different type of jump cue every time, whatever he had just concocted. One of them was made of fiberglass, one of them had a tip that must have been 20 millimeters, and so on. Most of them were pretty ridiculous until about 1987, but Pat is undeniably one of the forefathers of the modern jump cue.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Yes, I knew Pat back then and played pool against him on occasion at the Golden Q in Queens, NY. In about 1986, it seemed he showed up with a different type of jump cue every time, whatever he had just concocted. One of them was made of fiberglass, one of them had a tip that must have been 20 millimeters, and so on. Most of them were pretty ridiculous until about 1987, but Pat is undeniably one of the forefathers of the modern jump cue.

Yeah Pat was always coming up with ideas such as of course accu stats. I remember him showing me a thing it was like a 3 oz weighted sleeve that you put on your shaft to hold down and weight the cue forward for shooting off the rail.

His best was when he started playing with a 52 or 54-in cue. I don't really remember how successfully he was with that or how long he played with it but it was interesting.

 

[alstl]

Jump cues have diminished the game but there is no turning back. A Mosconi cup member lost to a senior citizen in a money one pocket game a couple years ago. Efren is nearly 70 and you don't see the youngsters with their jump cues offering him 9-6 in one pocket because their jump cue won't rescue them from their lack of skill.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Chris in NC:

Funny to me that all these discussions regarding jump cues that virtually no one has mentioned how hard they are on the cloth on the tables in a pool room, from the prospective not only as a pool room owner but also in attempting to maintain our cloth / tables in the best possible condition for the enjoyment of all our players. Not as much for those already proficient at it, but for those who aren’t and are learning how to use a jump cue - it’s absolutely brutal!

 

[bb9ball]

Funny to me that all these discussions regarding jump cues that virtually no one has mentioned how hard they are on the cloth on the tables in a pool room, from the prospective not only as an owner but also in trying to maintain our cloth / tables in the best possible condition for the enjoyment of all our players. Not as much for those already proficient at it, but for those who aren’t and are learning how to use a jump cue - it’s absolutely brutal!

Where I play, every banger scoops the ball to "jump". No one says a word to them. I have to bite my tongue because I know I would be wasting my time.

I only know of one room that has a sign about no jump shots or masses.

 

[David in FL]

Where I play, every banger scoops the ball to "jump". No one says a word to them. I have to bite my tongue because I know I would be wasting my time.

I’m guessing a local bar? I don’t think I’ve seen that in years in an actual pool room.

If you don’t say a word either, you’re part of the problem.

Just sayin’...

 

[bb9ball]

Hey, you saw what you saw, so I'm in no position to disagree, but .....

... I'd say I rarely saw a jump cue used in competition before about 1994, at which point I'd guess about 10% of the pros carried one. I attended plenty of pro events all over the country in the 1980s and 1990s. You did see, starting in l the early 1990s, along with full cue jumps, people jumping using their shaft alone, but in about 1997 or so, a rule was added mandating that a jump cue be 40 inches or longer, so jumping with the shaft was no longer an option.

Sammy Jones and Pat Fleming were the most prominent players developing the jump cue around 1986-87, and it was possible to buy one, but rest assured, jump cues were not seen in PBT events regularly until the late 1990s.

The Super Billiards Expo, which I usually attended, further corroborates the timing of the entry of the jump cue into the mainstream. Seemingly every major cuemaker had a booth at the Expo, but one could not buy a jump cue at the Expo until about 1996 or so. The first jump cue you could buy at the Expo was called "The Frog" and Robin Bell Dodson was the marketing rep for the product. I never bought a jump cue, but I did try a few of them over the years at the Expo.

I'm sticking with my guess of 1998 for when pro pool reached the point where jump cues were carried by most pros in the biggest PBT events.

Thanks for sharing. Sounds like the Midwest was, indeed, ahead of the curve.

I remember seeing a lot of the kids start showing up with jump cues about the same time I started seeing the Predator spliced shafts, 92 or 93. I suspect you started seeing players of this group as they got good enough to compete with the older pros. And, a few of the older pros that saw the potential and less resistant to change, and/or got beat by a shot from one.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Jump cues have diminished the game but there is no turning back. A Mosconi cup member lost to a senior citizen in a money one pocket game a couple years ago. Efren is nearly 70 and you don't see the youngsters with their jump cues offering him 9-6 in one pocket because their jump cue won't rescue them from their lack of skill.

One foul BIH anywhere on the table diminished the game.

 

[ChrisinNC]

One foul BIH anywhere on the table diminished the game.

Many including myself would disagree with that statement - it sped up / improved the game, much like tournament 8-ball rules are a vast improvement over outdated bar room 8-ball rules, whereby committing a foul was actually a strategic advantage - which made no sense.

 

[alstl]

One foul BIH anywhere on the table diminished the game.

How is that?

 

[AtLarge]

Yeah Pat was always coming up with ideas such as of course accu stats. I remember him showing me a thing it was like a 3 oz weighted sleeve that you put on your shaft to hold down and weight the cue forward for shooting off the rail.

His best was when he started playing with a 52 or 54-in cue. I don't really remember how successfully he was with that or how long he played with it but it was interesting.

Pat has been selling the Counter-Weight (about 4 1/2 oz.) for a few years now: https://store.accu-stats.com/the-counter-weight/?pk_vid=3a1ac8ea73c501d01620855446d91d88

And I think he still uses a shorter-than-normal playing cue.

 

[sjm]

One foul BIH anywhere on the table diminished the game.

While this is, of course, a matter of opinion, I think it made the game better, forcing players to improve their billiard knowledge and their defense.

I am old enough that I first played nine ball one-shot shootout style and, while I agree that it was a bit more of a shot maker's game than that of today, that doesn't mean it was better. It was also a bit slower, as pushouts slow the game down. I didn't really come to really enjoy nine ball until Texas Express came along.

 

[JB Cases]

Just like jumping with a modern jump cue, minutes to learn the basic skill, years to maste

What's "artificial" about saying no to gimmick gear?

Next thing you know people will be convinced playing video pool on their phone is better than playing on a table.

Oh wait, these morons already exist.

Jump cues are stage 3 cancer to the game.

So chalk is a gimmick? Leather tips are a gimmick?

 

[JB Cases]

Obviously so, but the debate is over when jump cues entered the mainstream, and there's no way that was before 1995. Few players carried them until then, and even then, most didn't.

Full cue jumps go back to the nineteenth century. Former AZB poster extraordinaire Hemicudas shared that the first jump shot with a short cue was in about 1970, and was performed by Marcus Collier, arguably the greatest ever bumper pool player, who was, at the time, playing in a pool event. He used his bumper pool cue, which looked awfully similar to the modern jump cue, to execute a jump shot at the pool table, and it was said that this caused pool players to take notice of the fact that a jump is more easily executed with a short cue. Some suggest that this was the day the jump cue was invented.

If you think there were many jump cues around in the 1980s, you are mistaken.

People were shaft jumping in the 80s. My first "jump" cue was a dowel that installed a pin into for one of my shafts. That was 1991.

Sammy Jones did a video on jumping using meucci jump cues in the late 80s.

 

[sjm]

People were shaft jumping in the 80s. My first "jump" cue was a dowel that installed a pin into for one of my shafts. That was 1991.

Sammy Jones did a video on jumping using meucci jump cues in the late 80s.

Thanks for sharing. Hope you're well, John.

 

[JC]

So chalk is a gimmick? Leather tips are a gimmick?

If pool was meant for balls to fly around above the slate they would move the tournaments to outer space.

 

[The_JV]

I’m guessing a local bar? I don’t think I’ve seen that in years in an actual pool room.

If you don’t say a word either, you’re part of the problem.

Just sayin’...

I nearly got in a fight at my regular room because I told two massive young jackasses that they were actually fouling when scouping the ball and trashing the table. I went to room manager first, and he did nothing. When I stepped up in an attempt to protect the equipment I played on, he disappeared.

Last time I ever bothered.

 

[The_JV]

Here's a question to all...

Does anyone have an issue with a player shooting directly into a rail to create a rebounding/jumping action...? I mean it still totally negates the need to learn to kick right...? No jump stick required though

First YT hit I found:

 

[maha]

that is legal. and should be as you are using the cushion to have the ball jump. but still that makes using the space above the table and really isnt in the true spirit of pool.
jumping is a subject that has many opinions. so only what the rules allow settles the issue.