For me I will always Kick, or Bank before Jumping as a last option.
You'll lose to a good jumper.
pj
chgo
For me I will always Kick, or Bank before Jumping as a last option.
worriedbeef said:if the jump is the best option i will take it. i'm not gonna kick just for the sake of it. one thing i don't like is the way some people make out using a jump cue is easy. to do it well it takes a lot of skill, just as much as it does to kick well.
Black-Balled said:Obviously, one cannot generalize.
worriedbeef said:people always cite the example where there's a ball over the hole and it's "so easy to just jump and make it". but it would also be just as easy in this case to swerve round and make it, or kick the ball in one rail.
shortsidek - how do you feel about full cue jumping?
btw i think cue ball fouls only is the more sensible option. you mention snooker, personally i have always thought it stupid when a players arm hair touches an object ball during his stroke and the ball has barely moved a millimetre, yet the player automatically declares a foul on himself. what difference did that make to anything? i think players should only take fouls on bumbed object balls if there is clear intent to move them to gain an advantage. just put the balls back and play the game.
eastcoast_chris said:Wrong.... jumping is easy compared to kicking. If you don't think so then you haven't practised jumping enough.
There are times to jump and times to kick, but it is usually fairly obvious which one you should do (assuming your skilled at both).
I can teach anyone to jump in 5 minutes... and then they call have it mastered in weeks/months..... kicking takes years to master (I know I still haven't after 25 years of pool)
IMHO, Chris
JB Cases said:...A certain percentage of the population is physically impaired from even being able to do this shot ...![]()
Shortside K said:I disagree with your statement that "it is just as easy to swerve around or kick the ball in one rail". I feel it is much easier to jump and make a ball laying near the pocket. Maybe you are very much better that I am at kicking, but I have my doubts.
... full cue jumping? I am against any type of jumping (over an impeding ball). Why is any type of jumping (an impeding ball) allowed? To make the game easier?
How easy do we have to/want to make it?
We're already playing on small tables with gigantic pockets.
We get "ball in hand" for every foul.
We "pattern rack" to make run-outs easier or harder.
We have turbo-charged break cues so we have a better chance to make a ball on the break.
We win the game if we make a specified ball on the break.
We have "jump cues" to make hitting/sinking the object ball easier.
We have "gloves" to keep our sweaty hands under control.
We have specially engineered shafts to control deflection.
... CB fouls only? The only reason this rule is in effect is because it reduces arguements. Refereed matches do not use this rule. If you think that it doesn't make any difference to the outcome of a game/match, try playing the real rule and see if it does. I'm betting that the fact that moving/bumping an obstructing/impeding ball will be considered a foul will dramatically affect your play. Suddenly you can't quite take the bridge or stroke that you would normally take.
I agree with all the comments that the jump cue has become an integral part of the game. I agree that it take skill to use the jump cue effectively.
I do not, however, agree that the jump cue is necessary to keep the game challenging and enjoyable.
Black-Balled said:Had to take a swipe at the Handicapables, didn't you?
catscradle said:John, Though I agree with virtually everything you said in your post. I'd still rather see the game of pool played without the jump cue. Easy enough rule to implement. Don't allow switching of cues, if somebody wants to use a jump cue for all their shots, more power to them.
I'd also like to see travelling and palming the ball enforced in pro basketball, that's not going to happen either.
eastcoast_chris said:Wrong.... jumping is easy compared to kicking. If you don't think so then you haven't practised jumping enough.
There are times to jump and times to kick, but it is usually fairly obvious which one you should do (assuming your skilled at both).
I can teach anyone to jump in 5 minutes... and then they call have it mastered in weeks/months..... kicking takes years to master (I know I still haven't after 25 years of pool)
IMHO, Chris
RRfireblade said:I prefer to kick and feel pretty confident it doing so.
I do , however , think that jumping with even a medocre jump cue is pretty easy. I feel just as confident that if the layout allows , I can accurately jump to make a ball , especially if the OB is not a hanger.
I don't like that fact.Seems like cheating but I will jump if/when it seems like the best option in a game that matters at all for some reason.
Otherwise I kick and wouldn't be upset at all if jumping went away.
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I may be the only one on here old enough to remember that an oldshinyballs said:Where were all of you when I suggested recently that I didn't think jump cues should be allowed? Everyone "jumped" all over me.![]()
I own one and can use it, but I kick really well IMO because I don't over use it.
SJDinPHX said:I may be the only one on here old enough to remember that an old
rule in golf used to be; If your opponents ball is in your line to the
hole, it was called "stymied". Your opponent did not mark his ball.
you had to chip over it to get to the cup. They found this rule un-
acceptable years ago. When enough Pool table cloths get ripped and a few people get hurt, room owners may see it for what it is.
A poor unacceptable way of distorting the rules.
Its not pro's that do the damage, it is the young bangers trying toJB Cases said:Don't you think that in the last 10-15 years that IF ripped cloths from jumping were truly a problem then the cues would have been outlawed already? Or that the jump shot would have been outlawed?
In my exhibitions I used to deliberately drive the tip of the cue into the cloth repeatedly to show that it does not rip the cloth. This is a huge red herring of an argument against jump cues. There is no epidemic of torn cloths due to the use of jump cues. Nor is there any real danger to other people.
I bet that cue balls flying off the table on break shots have harmed more people than cueballs that have gone off table due to jump shots. In Holland I once had a cueball embed itself in the drywall next to my ear when the breaker skipped it off the head ball. Had it hit me in the head then it would not have been pretty.
Jump shooters are shooting into the table which absorbs the energy.
Are you saying that jumping a ball is a distortion of the rules? If so, then how so? Jumping balls is covered in just about everyone's rules to some degree. In the last ten years no aspect of the game has received the most attention and discussion, with the possible exception of the break shot.
I believe that at this point everything that can be said concerning everyone's views on jump cues has been said. I am sure that the rulemakers have had plenty of feedback on it. I consider jump cues to be an evolutionary aspect of the game that came about because of the move to one foul nine ball. Three things have come out of the move to one foul - ball-in-hand 9 and 8 ball.
1. players now jump better.
2. players now kick better.
3. players now play safe better.
For the sake of argument lets say that kicking IS much harder than jumping. Under that scenario why should it be made EASIER to duck but HARDER to get out of it? That is exactly what happened in the move to one foul nine ball. Now the incoming player is always faced with a low percentage shot when he is forced to kick. In 2-foul push out the incoming player could always choose to push and dare the opponent to take the shot.
With the advent of jumping as an offensive weapon it effectively neutralized the easy safety and thereby increased the overall skill level even more as players have been forced to learn to play tighter safeties. Tighter safeties which also have the effect of forcing tougher kick shots.
In the last fifteen years players have learned that a poor safety is one which allows the jump shot or big ball kicks. And that a good safety is one that cuts off the most routes to the object ball. With of course the best one being that which cuts off all routes.
So how is an overall improvement in skill and artistry in all aspects of the game a bad thing?
SJDinPHX said:I may be the only one on here old enough to remember that an old
rule in golf used to be; If your opponents ball is in your line to the
hole, it was called "stymied". Your opponent did not mark his ball.
you had to chip over it to get to the cup. They found this rule un-
acceptable years ago. When enough Pool table cloths get ripped and a few people get hurt, room owners may see it for what it is.
A poor unacceptable way of distorting the rules.