jumping full stick

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poolshrk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was watching turning stone this weekend and of course you cant use a jump stick. most players didnt really attempt but Putnam jumps very well... i think he jumped like 5 times in that match with success...

My question... I can jump very very well with a jump stick... i have tried full stick because i want to go pro at some point and i need to learn. But i have had no success. Is there a trick or special tip... harder tip... any help would be appreciated!
 
poolshrk said:
I was watching turning stone this weekend and of course you cant use a jump stick. most players didnt really attempt but Putnam jumps very well... i think he jumped like 5 times in that match with success...

My question... I can jump very very well with a jump stick... i have tried full stick because i want to go pro at some point and i need to learn. But i have had no success. Is there a trick or special tip... harder tip... any help would be appreciated!
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it will be very difficult if you are using a medium or softer tip.
 
Try jumping with your break cue instead of your player... Hard tips seem to help... Forward balance seems to help... I will full cue jump, with my BK2, if I am not having to jump over a full ball... Start by practicing jumping over half a ball and when you get proficient move on to trying a full ball.....

If you are using a LD shaft getting the ball up in the air at all is usually near impossible.... I did at one point have a predator 314 on a McDermott that would do it but it has been the only LD combo I have seen that worked... I have a custom Gibbs LD on the same D19 McDermott butt that the pred was on and I can't clear half ball more than 1 in 10......
 
No jump cues at Turning Stone this year??? Hmmmm I saw a few players on the stream break them out and got airbourne with them. As far as I know Zuglan does not allow jump cues but maybe that changed?? :confused:
 
poolshrk said:
I was watching turning stone this weekend and of course you cant use a jump stick. most players didnt really attempt but Putnam jumps very well... i think he jumped like 5 times in that match with success...

My question... I can jump very very well with a jump stick... i have tried full stick because i want to go pro at some point and i need to learn. But i have had no success. Is there a trick or special tip... harder tip... any help would be appreciated!
Click to expand...

Shawn's cue may jump, not sure... if he had a different playing cue; good question for him, I would love to see if its the cue? I've never been able to jump with any of my playing cues, but one day when I had my booth I was showing someone to jump with the Frog...and then showed them how a regular cue won't jump the same...So I picked up one of my low end cues to show them...and it jumped...shocked me more than it did them.
The key is to find out what your playing cue will and will not do....don't try to jump if your cue won't...just kick...remember percentage matters!
 
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A friend of mine got an odega tip on his break cue and i can get over a full ball about 6 to 8 inches away (full cue) with that tip. (it helps that im 6 foot 5). That tip is a very good jumping and breaking.
 
Make your own full jump cue

Pick up a cheap cue with a removeable weight bolt and make sure the shaft isn't too whippy. Take out the weight bolt and chances are, the wood will cheap and featherlight leaving you with a very light, centrally-balanced cue. Now throw
a hard JB tip like a Samsara on it and voila, instant homemade full jump cue! The fact that the cue is longer and slightly heavier than a traditional jump cue means that you can get quite a bit of draw on jumps shots as well, with a little practice. If you like lighter break cues you can make it your breaker too.
 
IMO, it's more about technique than the cue so much. Strickland was doing full table, full ball jumps AND drawing back table length 20 years ago...and using his playing cue to do it. I can jump a full ball with my playing cue too, but I need a foot or two between CB and OB. I think a hard tip helps. Obviously I can jump much closer with my jump cue.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
if you watch real close as they jump full stick, they seem to not only hit the ball at a downward angle but also kinda flick or lift the ball at the end of the stroke. Not really a legal jump shot but as long as the ferrule doesn't touch the cue ball no one will call it.

Kim
 
Scott Lee said:
IMO, it's more about technique than the cue so much. Strickland was doing full table, full ball jumps AND drawing back table length 20 years ago...and using his playing cue to do it. I can jump a full ball with my playing cue too, but I need a foot or two between CB and OB. I think a hard tip helps. Obviously I can jump much closer with my jump cue.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott, How does the tecnieque differ between full length and 40" jump cues???

Pete
 
I learned how to jump w/ my full cue and have never had a problem. I actually can pocket balls better w/ a full cue but my jump cue helps in a tight jam. If you are taller it helps, if you are not choke down on the cue. Technique is important but the problem is finding somewhere that you can practice doing it.
 
How to Full Length Jump

poolshrk said:
My question... I can jump very very well with a jump stick... i have tried full stick because i want to go pro at some point and i need to learn. But i have had no success. Is there a trick or special tip... harder tip... any help would be appreciated!
Click to expand...


Anyone can jump using a jump cue, but full cue jumpers takes a stroke, if you really want to learn how to become a good jumper using a full length cue start out setting up 1/4 ball jumps with the cue ball at least six inches from the object ball your jumping, then progress to 1/2 ball jumps and so on untill your comfortable with full ball jumps.

Don't start out trying full length jumps with the cue ball 3 or 4 inches or closer from object ball your jumping, or you'll never learn or develope the stroke required for the shot, and you will just get frustrated and quit trying the shot.

Start out with small jumps and work your way up to fuller jumps and the further away you are from the object ball your jumping the EASIER the jump!

I learned from the best Big Ball Jumper there ever was Erman Bullard just by watching his stroke, hit down on the cue ball at about 48 -50 degree angle with a follow through stroke and it will hop!

With trial and error you will learn which shots to jump and which ones you can't, Never try to jump a ball angled to the rail where the object ball is off only a few inches, that shot jumps off the table everytime!

Hard tips hop the cue ball better than the soft ones.

David Harcrow
 
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I use my break cue which tends to be on the light side of weight. Definitely a hard tip is needed; just put a White Diamond on my break cue and it works great for jumping.

One thing that helps me is to choke up on the cue. Hold the full length cue almost like you were holding a jump cue. And, obviously, having a good stroke and follow-through is necessary.

Jump cues were not allowed at Turning Stone. Zuglan made that clear at the beginning. If someone thought they saw it during the live stream, then it was a mirage or they went against tournament rules without being caught.

It is definitely more satisfying making a jump shot with a full length cue since everyone and their grandma can jump with the short sticks.
 
I can jump a full ball with my playing cue (a Fisher) with a Kamui black medium, but I need some space between the cue ball and the blocking ball, probably at least 8 - 10 inches. It just took a little practice, and I still have one heck of a time jumping barbox cue balls, they just seem heavy.
 
whammo57 said:
if you watch real close as they jump full stick, they seem to not only hit the ball at a downward angle but also kinda flick or lift the ball at the end of the stroke. Not really a legal jump shot but as long as the ferrule doesn't touch the cue ball no one will call it.

Kim
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Uhhhhh Dr Dave?
 
I can jump a full ball with my BK2 but would only do it if I had a foot or two of space and a large landing area. When the conditions are right, I like it better because I can feel the extra weight and can get more spin on the ball, drawing back easily if needed. Hard to do the same with the 314-2 or Z2 because of the shaft construction, but with my standard Schon shaft I can do pretty well too.

Can't get as much spin with the jump cue, but better success at shorter distances, probably because I don't practice much with it. I've seen Neil (fujiwhopper) do it with my same jump cue, full ball jump and table length draw, so I know it's possible and like most things just requires good technique. I find my kicking ability and 3 cushion knowledge are more useful than jumping all the time and only try jumping when it's clearly the higher percentage option. If they ever get outlawed again, as they were years ago, wouldn't bother me a bit...

Scott
 
Clearing up MYTHS about jumping with a full cue/jump cue

Jumping balls has to do with your stroke first and the cue second.

It is "possible" to jump a full ball with almost any cue.

Starting with the stroke. If you don't have proper stroke technique then you will not be able to jump with a full cue. You MUST be able to deliver the tip at the correct angle and follow through. The problem is that when you get jacked up, that is when you bring the butt of the cue ABOVE your stomach and into chest height or higher then you are are dealing with an unbalanced weight.

So now you are trying to control a heavy weight along a 58" thin pole while standing in an awkward position. The NATURAL motion here is to DROP the shoulder when stroking the shot which then RAISES the tip and brings it to the wrong angle for the jump shot.

This is the most difficult part of the whole process. You MUST train your body so that you are able to stay in position and FOLLOW THROUGH.

Most people are very uncomfortable in this position in the first place. Then you have the added fear that you will hit the table and damage the cloth. So people don't shoot with a proper follow through. And if they don't then this also retards the forward motion and takes the energy out of the cueball. Thus the cue ball cannot rebound with enough height when it's not fully struck.

Next comes TOUCH. You must make the cue lighter by not gripping it so tightly. This one cannot be explained you have to feel it. This is the critical part that separates the good full cue jumpers from the hacks (I am a hack.) Good full cue jumpers like Rafael Martinez who is five feet tall have the ability to deliver the tip at the right angle with a good follow through and a light but sure grip on the cue.

A tight grip makes the cue heavier, impedes the stroke and changes the angle.

THE CUE:

Contrary to popular belief all full cues are not equally suited to jumping. Some "jump" very well while others are very difficult to use. This has to do with balance, stiffness, and deflection.

Any cue which is BUTT HEAVY, most of the weight at the very rear is not easy to use because that weight is hard to control when the cue is not level. The higher the grip hand goes the more difficult it is.

Conversely any cue which has the weight distributed more above the grip hand is easier to control the downward stroke when jacked up.

Low Deflection cues seem to absorb the energy and they are difficult to jump with. But they CAN be used if one changes the technique. Most of the time the shooter can adapt to the cue and change the angle to compensate for the cue.

However this requires a lot of practice to get familiar with a cue's range and your personal range. If you put any cue on a machine at say a 50 degree angle then it will have a certain distance from the blocking ball at which it becomes ineffective simply because the properties of the cue do not allow for any more energy to be transferred to the cue ball even with a perfect stroke. The shooter must find out what this limit is so that they KNOW what they can and cannot do with the full cue they are using.

I have seen people jump a FULL BALL using a FULL CUE with only a chalk's width or less distance. I have seen it done intentionally and accidentally by very very good players.

SO - it is POSSIBLE to do this. But when I speak of the range then I am speaking of shots that are PROBABLE given your skill and the properties of the cue you are using.

TIPS:

Jumping relies on instant energy transfer. Using a trampoline as an analogy. Backyard Wal-Mart trampolines are very soft and they absorb all the energy of the person jumping on them, the heavier the person the lower the rebound. Professional trampolines are made of tightly woven cords which repulse energy rapidly. Thus more height is easy to obtain on a tight bed.

A soft tip absorbs energy and a hard one repulses it. Or put another way a hard tip TRANSFERS energy with little loss which a soft tip transfers energy with a lot of loss. So the harder the better for jumping as you do not want energy loss. This is why phenolic tips work so well.

Again the shooter can compensate for the tip by adjusting the approach to the shot. But the softer the tip is the more the difficulty increases and the ability to compensate decreases.

CLOTH:

It is easier to jump on thicker cloth than on slicker cloth. This also has to do with energy transfer. Slicker cloth has less friction and this dissipates energy. Thicker cloth allows more energy to go through the cueball from the cue and gives the shooter just a tiny bit of extra "juice" to impart to the cueball before it takes off. You can see this your self by taking an extra piece of cloth and jumping off of it compared to using no extra piece.

SLATE: It is easier to jump on thicker slate than thinner slate. For the same reason as the trampoline example above. Thicker slate pushes back harder and does not absorb the energy as much as thin slate does. Thus it's easier to jump on 1.25-2" slate than it is on .75" to 1" as found on bar tables.

CUE BALL: Not every cue ball jumps equally. People don't discuss this because people don't generally have access to or need to mess around with a variety of cue balls. The fact is that cue balls are composed of all sorts of different plastics. Even from batch to batch they can vary in composition. I tested about a dozen cue ball from various brands and found that some "jumped" easily while others were much more difficult. Heavier balls are more difficult and lighter balls easier in general. So if you are having trouble and you are certain that your stroke is pure and proper then play with different cue balls.


So to conclude about jumping with a full cue. #1 you must be ABLE to maintain a pure stroke with the cue addressing the cue ball at an angle 45 degrees or above. #2 you must understand your cue completely AFTER you are SURE that you can stroke properly. Once those two things are taken care of then you can better understand the other factors you will have to compensate for when trying to jump with a full cue.

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Using a JUMP cue.

Since jump cues are short, 41" minimum to about 50" and are lightweight they are easier to handle when the cue is addressing the ball at a 45 degree angle or higher. It is easier for the player apply a pure and adequate stroke to the cue ball when in an otherwise uncomfortable position. Jump cues come with a super hard tip to facilitate energy transfer.

Jump cues work almost equally well on all slates and all cloths and with all balls. Not entirely equal but the amount of adjustment required on the shooter's part is a lot less than jumping with a full cue.

With a jump cue the shooter is able to get into positions that are almost impossible with a full cue and thus the range of probable shots that can be made is greatly increased.

People who have disabilities that leave them physically unable to properly lift a full cue into awkward positions or unable to maintain those positions long enough to deliver a proper stroke are able to use a jump cue instead.

The stroking technique when using a jump cue and a full cue is exactly the same. The tip must be delivered at the right angle purely with follow through. Only the comfort is much greater when using a jump cue. That greater comfort combined with the hard tip and stiff shaft engineered to be optimal for jumping is what allows the shooter to FOCUS on their delivery without having to overcompensate for the other factors.

And actually people who practice diligently with a jump cue and the underhanded stroke are more prepared to learn to jump with a full cue than if they never used a jump cue and try to learn. That has been my experience at least.

Lastly: My credentials on this subject for the people who don't already know them.

I spent the years from 1998-2003 giving exhibitions around the world selling jump cues and teaching people to jump. I can teach to jump with a jump cue and a full cue. When I play I use my full cue to jump when it's the right shot to use that cue and I use the jump cue when it's needed.

Learning to jump with a full cue is a worthy endeavor. But it's not easy and is shrouded in myth and mystery. As if someone who can do it is somehow more talented than the rest of us. This is not true. The person who knows how to jump with a full cue simply learned the right way and they know WHEN they can jump using a full cue and when they can't. So when they pick the shots that they CAN jump they look like a hero.

I hope that this post clears up some of that mystery and myth for you all.
 
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