Just a few things on my mind...

[Marvel]

Kevin and Deno made the draw for the NA-Open, by seeding the Hall of Famers, qualifiers, womens etc.. etc.. to different groups, so there wouldn't be like big surprises for anyone.

Only thing to speculate that draw, and was it fair, is the easiness of Mike Sigels first group - and the fact that they are good buddies with each others (Kevin & Mike). I don't see any other reason to discuss about the draw of NA-Open.
Second group was not anymore made by draw, but ok, it is true that it could've been controlled a bit before hand also, but not much.

In the future there will be no draw, as the players are put into groups by their position in the money list, so that would end up the speculation for that.


I don't know if Mike was put into easy group intentionally, but if you think it was, wouldn't it be wiser to cover it little bit better? Let's say like put one heavy weighter in the same group also, and as three players goes through, it wouldn't matter? Or even two heavy weighters? I'm sure if they would use corrupt manners, they would have the intelligent to do it in a way, that it wouldn't look so 'obvious', and these kind of speculations wouldn't be so 'well' entitled.


IPT is the best thing ever happened to the sport of Pool Billiards, and it seems somehow sad, that the negative posts are filling this forum mostly about this issue.

If somebody would list all the good things IPT has made, and would compare it to all the controversial things, maybe jealous people would see the difference on the scale.


Or, maybe they wouldn't. Jealousy can make you blind.

 

[Marvel]

Kevin and Deno made the draw for the NA-Open, by seeding the Hall of Famers, qualifiers, womens etc.. etc.. to different groups, so there wouldn't be like big surprises for anyone.

Only thing to speculate that draw, and was it fair, is the easiness of Mike Sigels first group - and the fact that they are good buddies with each others (Kevin & Mike). I don't see any other reason to discuss about the draw of NA-Open.
Second group was not anymore made by draw, but ok, it is true that it could've been controlled a bit before hand also, but not much.

In the future there will be no draw, as the players are put into groups by their position in the money list, so that would end up the speculation for that.


I don't know if Mike was put into easy group intentionally, but if you think it was, wouldn't it be wiser to cover it little bit better? Let's say like put one heavy weighter in the same group also, and as three players goes through, it wouldn't matter? Or even two heavy weighters? I'm sure if they would use corrupt manners, they would have the intelligent to do it in a way, that it wouldn't look so 'obvious', and these kind of speculations wouldn't be so 'well' entitled.


IPT is the best thing ever happened to the sport of Pool Billiards, and it seems somehow sad, that the negative posts are filling this forum mostly about this issue.

If somebody would list all the good things IPT has made, and would compare it to all the controversial things, maybe jealous people would see the difference on the scale.


Or, maybe they wouldn't. Jealousy can make you blind.

And by the way, even I'm a new poster, I have red occasionally the discussions here and I must say that there has been quite a few posts about IPT which have been copmletely out of line.

Jay Helferts apology is a pearl in the junk yard.

Maybe the most hilarious (=most stupid), was when somebody made accusations tha IPT is ruining lives (!!!???).
Argumentation was that now these older players have to start practise again and it will take lots of money (like they would have to sell their houses ) and they might get troubles in their works or even have to quit their works...
Luckily I've forgotten most part of it, it was written maybe somewhere in May..

 

[ironman]

I just can't be as nice as everybody else about your STUPID ASS comments and STUPID ASS thoughts about anything and everything.

It really shows how much of a DUMBASS you are. A real low/no class piece of work. Why do I keep getting the image of a nut-swinger?

You really need to accept the fact that you're a never was (please tell us how well off you are and how happy you are with your life again ) and you'll probably always remain a never will be.

I can just picture you being the type that walks into the poolroom and everybody looks to see who came in and they all look at each other with that "ohh god, it's HIM" look.


Have a nice day

You just have to like a person who gets right to the point.

 

[ironman]

Anyone that has gone to the trouble of holding tournaments or creating and running pool tours know that the negative people are always the loudest and usually the most ill-informed.

They always know what's wrong, but most wouldn't be able to operate the coat check at an event.

These are the same people that complain about politicians but never vote.

The IPT follows the Golden Rule. Whoever has the gold Rules!

You negative people are too negative to ever get the gold; hence you will never make the rules.

And that’s a good thing………………………………..

I will agree with you that the negative are often the loudest. Ill-informed?
We often percieve the negatives as negatives because they don't say what we want them to say.
Timberly simply stated points of concern and points I'm sure which concern those at the "round table".
There are always problems and there are always solutions to those problems. One of the solutions as Timberly pointed out, is do what you say you are going to do. Don't change your plan in the middle of the game.
The IPT Golden Rule? I hope not! It is a childish, self-serving statement. It is very arrogant. Let's face it, self-serving statements are usually wrong and most with IQ of a carrot have figured that out.
Arrogance is the ultimate form of negativity.

 

[Blackjack]

To be perfectly blunt my dear,

I don't think Kevin and his staff give a rats ass what you think.

It is his show, his money, his game. He will do it his way.

Get that into your dumb head.

Jake

It is pathetic responses like this from people like yourself that keep me looking cross-eyed at the IPT the way that I do. Take that anyway you want to Jake.

Timberly intelligently mapped out clear concerns that any normal, rational person would have concerning the practices of the IPT. If KT doesn't give a rats ass, then good for him. He can take his show, his money and game down the toilet - with the players, Mark Trainer, you, and anyone else that's not smart enough to jump ship when it starts sinking. Either way, that is no reason to lash out at somebody that was very diplomatic and supportive in her message.

KT and his "staff" obviously have a lot to learn about pool and the industry. The only way that they are going to learn is from people that have been there and seen what has worked and what has not worked in the past. He can learn a lot and gain a lot of credibility by doing so. Meanwhile, he can toss me out of his events - he can toss Jay Helfert- but what does that really prove? It proves that he hides the truth and that he plans on eliminating anybody that speaks it from the premises. That's exactly what pool needs, isn't it?

FWIW, they are intent on doing things their way, Timberly. Saying anything that conflicts with their practices or their way of thinking is like pissing into the wind at this point.

 

[sjm]

The main thing to remember, the only thing to remember, is, are the players happy.

To be perfectly blunt my dear,

I don't think Kevin and his staff give a rats ass what you think.
It is his show, his money, his game. He will do it his way.
Get that into your dumb head.

Jake

Short term the players will be happy as they are making more money than ever before. Longer term, whether the players will be happy rests entirely on whether this tour generates enough revenue to ensure its continued existence. KT has made it clear that, if things are done his way, a significant part of the IPT revenue picture is a) the licensing of IPT pool related products and sale of those products to pool players and pool room proprietors, b) sale of DVDs of the tournaments, and c) selling IPT player appearances.

Whether such revenues will be realized hinges on whether consumers positioned to provide the demand for these choose to spend, which will hinge on their perception of the IPT. If the IPT is viewed as illegitimate, and IPT management appears unconcerned about the thoughts and perceptions of members of its potential consumers, the revenue may not materialize. If the IPT is not viewed as embracing its potential consumer base, it will cost them a lot of money.

I suspect that the IPT cares far more about its potential consumers than about its players. Pretty much every member of the AZB forum is part of that potential consumer base.

Finally, your vulgar attack on Timberly is most inappropriate.

 

[vagabond]

It really shows how much of a DUMBASS you are. A real low/no class piece of work. Why do I keep getting the image of a nut-swinger?

Have a nice day

Finally somebody broke the silence!!!

 

[vagabond]

Finally, your vulgar attack on Timberly is most inappropriate.

I can`t say any better than that.

 

[ScottW]

Jake,

You so truly show your quality with the posts in this thread.

How's that Kool-aid tastin'? Yummy?

 

[Eydie Romano]

Short term the players will be happy as they are making more money than ever before. Longer term, whether the players will be happy rests entirely on whether this tour generates enough revenue to ensure its continued existence. KT has made it clear that, if things are done his way, a significant part of the IPT revenue picture is a) the licensing of IPT pool related products and sale of those products to pool players and pool room proprietors, b) sale of DVDs of the tournaments, and c) selling IPT player appearances.

Whether such revenues will be realized hinges on whether consumers positioned to provide the demand for these choose to spend, which will hinge on their perception of the IPT. If the IPT is viewed as illegitimate, and IPT management appears unconcerned about the thoughts and perceptions of members of its potential consumers, the revenue may not materialize. If the IPT is not viewed as embracing its potential consumer base, it will cost them a lot of money.

I suspect that the IPT cares far more about its potential consumers than about its players. Pretty much every member of the AZB forum is part of that potential consumer base.

Finally, your vulgar attack on Timberly is most inappropriate.

SJM always has a way with words, that's why I love him so!

Jake, I have always liked you and respected what you say, but why are you attacking Timberly? This sounds more on a personal level than in regards to what she has said in this post.

Please play nice, pretty please!

 

[vagabond]

Jake,

Back down, buddy, it's OK. Timberly is extremely intelligent and she is only voicing some concerns.

I am glad to see u come in support of Timberly

 

[vagabond]

It is pathetic responses like this from people like yourself that keep me looking cross-eyed at the IPT the way that I do. Take that anyway you want to Jake.

Timberly intelligently mapped out clear concerns

I do not think that he will repeat that mistake.I do not think he anticipated such a down pour of support to Timberly from steve lemko,Eydie,SJM,linda,the queen,Carter,me and others.oh,poor Jake.

 

[TheOne]

The problem with Jake (and he's not alone), is that when he reads posts about the IPT such as Timberlys, all he see's is negative, *****ing etc. He doesn't give any thought to the merits of the arguments or suggestions, and he certainly doesn't see the positives and praise in any such post.

 

[JC51534]

The Big Picture

The IPT is not the first nor will it be the last. The day will come when the IPT is a memory.
Many of the tours that have come and gone are also responsible for many of the tours around today.
Each tour reincarnation is a tweaked model of a previous version. People learn from experience.
So the current most ambitious tour I have ever seen should have your 100% support.

Why??
Because you can and do see the “BIG PICTURE”

You know that no matter what happens (questionable draws, suspect decisions, shady characters, etc.) your sport will get more exposure then it currently (or ever) has and that someday we might get to look back and laugh at the small payouts of the IPT events and appreciate everything that spun off it.

You look forward to having more places to play more pool more often with more people.

You are labelled as a true supporter of the game!

 

[DaveK]

I have some experience running large tournaments that include placement draws. There are only two reasonable methods in my opinion, and both need to be transparent. First, a complete blind draw done in public ; or second, a seeded event where the seeding criteria are established before the entries are due. (There are combinations of the two where the top players are seeded and the others are drawn, pro tennis is an example, this is fine too). Hand placed draws can only cause problems with the appearance of bias, and there is little if any benefit to the event (many will claim there is benefits to specific players, and who's to know ?).

I have lived through doing draws for wrestling tournaments of up to 600 athletes spread over 15 weight classes from a few dozen schools. The coaches are encouraged to watch the draw. Boy did they complain when a couple of top wrestlers met early in the tournament. I can just imagine what they'd have done to me if I did the draw in private

Transapency is the key, and it seems like the IPT is a little opaque.

Dave

PS I am not anti-IPT, so to those who fly off the handle at this stuff, step back please and understand that I am simply all in favour of fair competition, and believe that a proper draw is mandatory.

 

[jimmyg]

Timberly

Judging from all of Timberly's posts that I have read, she is neither a naysayer nor a cheerleader. Her statements have always been reasonable and intelligent and her questions rational and pertinent. She isn't afraid to ask unpopular questions about controversal topics and even when voicing an opposing point of view, she is considerate, courteous and civilized to all others. I don't think that there is any question that she loves and is dedicated to the advancement of the game of pool, it's players and it's fans. Others here can learn a lot about personal character and dignity from her. Just MHO.

 

[Timberly]

Sigh, ignorance really is bliss.

Oh Timberly, it must be wonderful to be so beautiful, so intelligent, so full of common sense, so know it all, so without any faults. I am sure you possess a doctorate and are the CEO of some powerful corporation. Your credentials are impeccable.
Numerous times on here I have admitted when I was wrong about something and I've apologized...publicly. I never have, nor will I ever say that I am perfect.

I am sure you would love it if all of your friends were completely honest with you and pointed out each and every fault you have.

Did you ever hear of puffing? As in a realestate agent over accentuating the positive about a house they are selling.

Or maintaining a positive mental attitude in life if you want to succeed?

You would have more credence if you would point out the defects in other tournaments as well. I have mentioned both the good and the bad about other tours & tournaments as well Are you trying to make your name by only putting the IPT down? I'm not trying to "make my name". The truth be told, I've already "made my name" on here by being honest. Regardless of whether anyone likes it or not. I never hear you criticize any other tour. I imagine they are all perfect. The best that I can tell you on this is to open your eyes and read more. If you so desire, you're more than welcome to go back through my posts (I'm not one to delete them) and see for yourself.

The Expo was a great success. Nothing goes wrong at DCC. The WPBA does everything right. According to Timberly. But the IPT does nothing right, according to Timberly. WOW, do you ever actually read anything I say? Please keep in mind that I started the thread and ended the thread with POSITIVES about the IPT. LOL, you really do lose sight of any & everything as soon as you see one negative word about the IPT.

Keep in mind that pool players are 3x7 (for the most part) and are responsible for their own actions. It is not up to you or me to tell them how to run their lives. If they want to sign contracts that is their prerogative. Just about every person working signs a contract. You do work don't you? You did sign all those forms that personnel put before you, didn't you? Everytime you sign your name you are signing a contract. What is the big deal?
The big deal is that I'm looking out for friends. Do you know what those are Jake? If I have information that they do not and it could directly affect their life and their earnings... Yes, I'm going to speak up. If the whole world thought like you did and figured it was everyone's own responsibility to learn things in life and that no one should teach anyone else something they know or learn, where on earth would we be today Jake? Certainly not here on a computer sharing knowledge and info with people around the world. We would quite possibly be sitting in caves and the only person enjoying the wheel would be the guy that invented it himself.

The IPT has been far more successful, and lasted far longer, and paid out more money, than I ever thought it would. That's interesting. You've done nothing but speak of it's greatness and complete and utter success long before they ever had a single tournament. The players are still committed to it, and guess what, the checks they are receiving are all good.

In actuality I am sure the IPT players, and all hopeful IPT players, would hope that you would stop criticizing the IPT and start praising it. Or at least point out something good about it. Again, have you ever read anything that I've posted? That post was started & ended with POSITIVE things and I've said positive things in the past as well. How many times do I have to type the words "I'm a supporter of the IPT and I sincerely hope that it does well" before you ever start to get it? By being so negative you may convince Kevin that he is doing the wrong thing and decide to go and start a dart tournament. I thought KT and the IPT didn't give a rats ass what I think? Then you would have every IPT player pissed at you. There are players that have concerns but cannot/will not voice them due to the delicate situation they're in. Ever start a new job and have some reservations about things you see but kept your mouth shut for fear of retribution or not wanting to be labled a troublemaker?

Have you been to any IPT tournaments? To any IPT qualifiers? Just to have first hand knowledge of how they are run and what the players are saying about them. Imagine the work, and money, that has had to go into these events to make them a success. And you point out picayune faults, and continuosly harp on them.
Here's a little info that you're obviously not aware of because A) I'm not some name dropping groupie and B) because you never read anything I say so you wouldn't be able to catch on by the things that I say... I am very close to many people in the pool world from players that I've been friends with from over 15 yrs ago when I was a teenager (long before they were pro players) to vendors/sponsors and tournament directors. I'm actually quite connected and am given 1st hand accounts by people directly involved with most things. I have a ton of info about players, tours, tournaments, and vendors/sponsors that I never have and never will share here or anywhere else out of respect to all of them. Believe me when I tell you that the information I get on the IPT and anything else for that matter is the truth as told to me by the FRIENDS in the industry that were there. They tell me things because they trust me and know that I will exercise good judgement with that knowledge. When you ask me if I've heard what the players are saying, I have to laugh. You're hearing what the fans in the stands hear and any media that might be nearby. I'm hearing what they really think. (FYI, there are many players quite content and happy with the IPT. There are also those that have questions and reservations about things.)

If I post something that I do not know to be a fact, I clearly state that it's hearsay and not a fact. When I'm posting something that I know is true but I don't remember verbatim, I ask someone to please correct me if I'm wrong.

Trying to run a tournament with 200 players is no easy task. It is completely astonishing that they are able to pull it off with such limited problems. Players playing games that can mean $5,000, $10,000, $20,000 or more if they win can put a lot of pressure on the players and can cause them to act up if they are not properly controlled.
What does any of this have to do with anything I said?

Yes I am pro IPT because I went to a couple events and really was impressed by what I saw. Yes they have faults, but who doesn't. Are the faults so terrible that they really effect the outcome? I don't think so at all.
Ever hear about a beautiful woman that used her beauty to con people? Ever see a magic trick? Ever hear the term "don't judge a book by its cover"? Things are not always as they seem Jake. Just because the venue was beautiful and the set up was of a high class nature, it does not mean that everything ran well. How you with your untrained eye and little knowledge of pool self could even think you would know of all that did or didn't go wrong while you were sitting in the grand stands is beyond me. You don't even know anyone well enough in the industry to tell you if things went well or not and someone with your limited knowledge cannot begin to know by sitting in the stands watching matches and looking up at the lights in awe.

The main thing to remember, the only thing to remember, is, are the players happy.
For someone that has as much disdain for players as you do, this is certainly an interesting comment.
Jake

Jake, take the blinders off and look at the world through regular eyes. Actually read what people have to say instead of getting completely wigged out because people aren't saying things that are 100% positive about the IPT.

Its simply not healthy and in no ones best interest to blindly follow everything that "appears" to be good. Many crimes are committed by people posing as nice, honest, caring people. Hence my logic when giving said advice.

To everyone else that was kind enough to post in my defense... thank you very much for supporting me and reading enough of my posts to know exactly what I meant when I started this thread. A little common sense and reading comprehension skills is all anyone really needs to understand what I say and what I mean.