Just when you think you've heard 'em all...

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
...somebody tosses a rule (APA) out at 'ya that you're positive is NOT in the books.

Now, I'm not slammin' the APA leagues or nothing, I'm just shaking my head in awe of some of the dumba** rules that people can come with (especially when it helps THEIR cause).

So, last night in 8-ball league, my opponent and I lag for break. Now I'm a fairly big guy (6'1, 215 lbs, 36" inseam) so I'm never really comfortable lagging from the right side of the headspot on a barbox. I feel like I'm crowding the guy/gal beside me so I tend to "scrunch-up" somewhat. Anyway, I shoot my lag from the right side and hit it perfect speed. But I rushed it a bit from my "scrunched-up" stance and inadvertently put a little left english on the ball, just a tad, but enough to make the two lagged balls make contact and stop about 2" from the footrail and about 3" to 4" on his side of the table (he himself had put a very small amount of right english on his lag). He looked at me and asked what we're supposed to do. I told him that we lag over (as per APA rules concerning the lag). So we do, and he wins the lag. So, as I'm racking the balls, the Captain of my opponents team, who is a SL6 and a long time APA league player and a well respected man in our league, came up to me and said that the rule is that, on the lag, when a players ball crosses the center diamond and contacts the opponents ball, that the player whose ball got hit automatically wins the lag. Now I'm fairly new to APA leagues, but I have read and and re-read the rules on quite a few occasions. I had just THAT MORNING read the rules concerning the lag. All the rule states is, that if the two lagged balls make contact, then you lag over. PERIOD. I told him this and he told me his variation of the rule again as if I didn't hear it the first time. I wasn't gonna get in a pi$$ing match with him over it, and it was a moot point as his teammate had won the lag anyway, so I just basically thanked him for the info and took my seat.

Was I missing something here??? Is there a rule, or a set of General Rules that I don't know about? I had the rule book in my bag, but I won't pull it out unless someone asks me too. The rule is pretty cut-and-dried. My point is this (and I would have used this in defense of my argument if there had been one): If there was a rule saying that a lag crossing over the center line and contacting the opponents ball means automatic loss of lag, then wouldn't that render the WRITTEN rule useless. I would think so, because it's darn unlikely that two lagged balls would come in contact with each other if one of them wasn't on the wrong side of the center diamond. Any opinions here???

BTW, I shot well and won my set!!!

Maniac
 
Hi Maniac,

I am not familiar with the APA rules, but I do know that in the "General Rules" section of the world standardized rules, it states clearly that you automatically lose the lag if your ball crosses over into the opponent's side of the table. You can check this out for yourself at www.bca-pool.com if you like.
 
VIProfessor said:
Hi Maniac,

I am not familiar with the APA rules, but I do know that in the "General Rules" section of the world standardized rules, it states clearly that you automatically lose the lag if your ball crosses over into the opponent's side of the table. You can check this out for yourself at www.bca-pool.com if you like.

But...APA has it's own set of rules unlike any I've ever seen. They couldn't possibly be using these world standardized rules and then on page one of the 8-ball rules (9-ball too), rule 1. Lag, say at the end of the rule (the very last sentence) that "If the lagged balls make contact during the lag, lag over." Why would this be written in their rules if they were using world standardized rules? It would be very hard for two lagged balls to make contact if one didn't cross over to the other side. Not impossible, but what are the odds of the two balls making contact with the point of contact straddling the center line? I gotta believe it was intended in their rules just as I interpret it in writing. If they make contact, lag over. There is no other discussion about it in their rules. Just my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Maniac
 
You think that's a funny rule?...

I was at a TAP event a few months ago. I got bored and decided to watch these two teams playing - saw a match go hill hill, and the guy shooting the 8 scratched - the opposing team starts clapping and huray'ing... the team captain of the losing team says something along the lines of;
"Hey, HEY!.. You're not allowed to cheer like that. If a player scratches on the 8 he gets 30 seconds of 'grevence' time."

FOR REAL!
 
APA rules( FAQ)

Go to web site top ,click on site ,under leagues find frequently asked questions click ,states clearly lag over...Good reading material here .I keep all these official rule interpetations with my rule books . Just in case.
 
Maniac said:
...somebody tosses a rule (APA) out at 'ya that you're positive is NOT in the books.

Now, I'm not slammin' the APA leagues or nothing, I'm just shaking my head in awe of some of the dumba** rules that people can come with (especially when it helps THEIR cause).

Yeah, that's the trap. People under any set of rules will often come up with some interpretation, which coincidentally (wink wink) helps their own cause. Not only will they come up with this interpretation, but they'll often be righteous about it. It's a shame, but unfortunately it's a fact of life of human nature, whether it be in a league, tournament, bar rules, or playing with friends.

Is it possible that you're captain was the one that had the invalid interpretation? I understand that you grant the captain some level of trust, but is it possible that he/she is not always right?

If you have the rule book, then stick to the reasonable understanding of the rules that are in print, which is what it sounds like you graciously followed.

Chain of authority: Rule book, by-laws (which should be very cautious about overturning any rules in the book), higher level official (where applicable) being supreme. Of course if you don't believe that the official is obeying the rule book then, you can file a protest in that situation. The ruling returned will then always be final.
 
AZE said:
You think that's a funny rule?...

I was at a TAP event a few months ago. I got bored and decided to watch these two teams playing - saw a match go hill hill, and the guy shooting the 8 scratched - the opposing team starts clapping and huray'ing... the team captain of the losing team says something along the lines of;
"Hey, HEY!.. You're not allowed to cheer like that. If a player scratches on the 8 he gets 30 seconds of 'grevence' time."

FOR REAL!

Hahahahaha ! This makes my funniest "rules" top 10 easily ! :D A few more and I'll publish it...
 
mjantti said:
Hahahahaha ! This makes my funniest "rules" top 10 easily ! :D A few more and I'll publish it...
There's a local independent county league (along with regular BCA, TAP, & APA) in my area. They have separate leagues for men, women, and also scotch doubles. A friend & I were talking about the womens league and he said that they have their own separate rules... he walked into a bar one night during the women's league and a friend of his was playing in a game. He said she was standing off to the side while her opponent was deciding what to shoot and that when he walked by on his way to the bar (had to walk by the tables to get to the bar) he said hello to his friend and kept walking.

His saying hello cost her that game. Apparently, they're not allowed to talk to anyone & no one is allowed to talk to them during their set. It's an automatic loss of the current game in progress. :eek:

I haven't talked to anyone else to confirm it but that seems a little extreme. The men's & scotch doubles league doesn't have this rule. :rolleyes:
 
Timberly said:
. Apparently, they're not allowed to talk to anyone & no one is allowed to talk to them during their set.

That's called the "STRICKLAND" rule.....it's catching on worldwide.:)
 
During an ESPN telecast of the BCA tourney one year they were showing highlights of the amateur divisions and this girl on one team shoots in the eight-ball and immediately throws her cue onto the table and starts celebrating jumping up and down with her teammates.

Only thing was, the cueball was still rolling firmly down the table when she rolled her cue right into it. She wasn't paying attention to the cueball at all. Looked to me like it had a decent shot of scratching as it was headed toward the corner pocket when she slammed it with her cue.

Apparently no one protested because this was the winning shot they were showing. But, isn't that a foul? Would you call it on your opponent in the finals of a BCA tournament if your opponent did that?
 
As you have read by now it is a re-lag if the balls collide.

As for why some people have different opinons on some APA rules I have a thought.

Many APAers have been at it for a while and the APA rules have changed over the years. This past year alone there were many changes with almost all being small rewordings and such.
Perhaps the rule was at one time that if they contacted that whoevers ball
crossed over lost. Maybe it changed in recent times.

I like the rule as it is now but do remember people telling me that it was the "other" way as well. The new rule help the beginners.


frank >>>>> glad they changed the "nearly frozen" wording in the rules this year
 
Maniac said:
...somebody tosses a rule (APA) out at 'ya that you're positive is NOT in the books.

Now, I'm not slammin' the APA leagues or nothing, I'm just shaking my head in awe of some of the dumba** rules that people can come with (especially when it helps THEIR cause).

So, last night in 8-ball league, my opponent and I lag for break. Now I'm a fairly big guy (6'1, 215 lbs, 36" inseam) so I'm never really comfortable lagging from the right side of the headspot on a barbox. I feel like I'm crowding the guy/gal beside me so I tend to "scrunch-up" somewhat. Anyway, I shoot my lag from the right side and hit it perfect speed. But I rushed it a bit from my "scrunched-up" stance and inadvertently put a little left english on the ball, just a tad, but enough to make the two lagged balls make contact and stop about 2" from the footrail and about 3" to 4" on his side of the table (he himself had put a very small amount of right english on his lag). He looked at me and asked what we're supposed to do. I told him that we lag over (as per APA rules concerning the lag). So we do, and he wins the lag. So, as I'm racking the balls, the Captain of my opponents team, who is a SL6 and a long time APA league player and a well respected man in our league, came up to me and said that the rule is that, on the lag, when a players ball crosses the center diamond and contacts the opponents ball, that the player whose ball got hit automatically wins the lag. Now I'm fairly new to APA leagues, but I have read and and re-read the rules on quite a few occasions. I had just THAT MORNING read the rules concerning the lag. All the rule states is, that if the two lagged balls make contact, then you lag over. PERIOD. I told him this and he told me his variation of the rule again as if I didn't hear it the first time. I wasn't gonna get in a pi$$ing match with him over it, and it was a moot point as his teammate had won the lag anyway, so I just basically thanked him for the info and took my seat.

Was I missing something here??? Is there a rule, or a set of General Rules that I don't know about? I had the rule book in my bag, but I won't pull it out unless someone asks me too. The rule is pretty cut-and-dried. My point is this (and I would have used this in defense of my argument if there had been one): If there was a rule saying that a lag crossing over the center line and contacting the opponents ball means automatic loss of lag, then wouldn't that render the WRITTEN rule useless. I would think so, because it's darn unlikely that two lagged balls would come in contact with each other if one of them wasn't on the wrong side of the center diamond. Any opinions here???

BTW, I shot well and won my set!!!

Maniac
:D Do what I did and keep the players (APA) in your car the Team Captain is given a set of the latest rules in the beginning of the year and is responsible for maintaining them so these issues do not come up! Good way to handle it though since their really was no argument when the other player won the second lag! :)
 
MrLucky said:
:D Do what I did and keep the players (APA) in your car the Team Captain is given a set of the latest rules in the beginning of the year and is responsible for maintaining them so these issues do not come up! Good way to handle it though since their really was no argument when the other player won the second lag! :)


I'm certain that I have never won a match from the car....Never been twisted enough to drive into the bar either.....lol

Always a wiseass in the crowd....:D

McCue Banger McCue
 
Timberly said:
There's a local independent county league (along with regular BCA, TAP, & APA) in my area. They have separate leagues for men, women, and also scotch doubles. A friend & I were talking about the womens league and he said that they have their own separate rules... he walked into a bar one night during the women's league and a friend of his was playing in a game. He said she was standing off to the side while her opponent was deciding what to shoot and that when he walked by on his way to the bar (had to walk by the tables to get to the bar) he said hello to his friend and kept walking.

His saying hello cost her that game. Apparently, they're not allowed to talk to anyone & no one is allowed to talk to them during their set. It's an automatic loss of the current game in progress. :eek:

I haven't talked to anyone else to confirm it but that seems a little extreme. The men's & scotch doubles league doesn't have this rule. :rolleyes:

This sounds like one of those "no coaching the girls" rules that someone took a little too far. I'm surprised the scotch doubles league didn't have a similar rule, at least while the woman is shooting.

An inter-corporate tournament (scotch doubles) that I played in wouldn't allow talking between the players when it was your team's turn to shoot. My partner and I made it to the finals and our opponents were a man who shot rather well and a woman who obviously was fairly new to the game. He coached her every step of the way. I considered complaining a few times, but there was no money involved and she needed the help. Besides, it was all supposed to be for fun anyway, so I kept my mouth shut. We ended up losing to them, but it was a good match and a good time. No harm done.

I think alot of people take games too seriously and push tournament and league officials into making these outrageous and overly strict rules just to keep some losers from whining all the time. All in the name of "fair play".
 
The first session i played APA 8ball, I had some guy on the opposing team, try to tell me that after taking a TIME OUT and doing my coaching part, that i had to be atleast 5feet away from the table.

Well, considering how far away our team sitting area is from the pool table, I was within 5ft of the table basically 90% of the time.

And after the guy said something about this, I told him, That i could be sitting at The team table and still be within 5ft.


The other one i heard, which happend at the Michigan Challenge two weeks ago. A couple of guys i know went and all played on the same team. From what they told me the last match they GOT to play, they beat the team 3-0 i believe, well the other team, threw the paper work at them, and left. Leaving the paper work unfinished and totally wrong ( IE ) wrong number of innings and safteys every game.

Well the team wasnt sure of what to do, so they filled out the other teams paper work, since they left, so it would be completed. No sooner did my buddies turn in the paper work, did the other team Suprisingly show back up saying that, my friends' team filled out thier paper work, so they should be disqualified.

Which did happen. Yet of course they didnt say anything about storming off and throwing thier paper work at the other team.
 
I have a good one that came up the other night. A player shot his 8-ball into a pocket which already had the pocket marker next to it. The other player said "You lost because you did not touch the marker before shooting"

the mind reels..........
 
PAge 1 ...

...of the APA Manual...The Lag:

1. Lag - Method used to start a match. Players
simultaneously shoot a ball from behind the head string,
banking it off the foot rail and back to the head of the
table. Striking the side rails or any pocket results in loss
of the lag. The closest ball to the head rail wins. It is
permissible to strike the head rail. If the lagged balls
make contact during the lag, lag over.
 
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