Justis Case Knockoff Design Thief Exposed

Tap, tap, tap !!!
John Barton has killed any chance of me ever considering a case he had anything to do with, and wholeheartedly recommending anything else.
 
NYC cue dude said:
You, my friend, are a piece of garbadge. Of course you dont care. If someone was knocking off something (or someone) your involved with, i bet you you'd care. Its always the ones who say blah blah they dont care, who cry like *****es the loudest when it happens to them.

a pox on you.

rg
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Listen first of all im not your friend,second there is no need for name calling and if your going to call me a name make sure to spell it right.I defended John because he was being attacked for no real good reason and his reputation attacked which if you cant realize is wrong.Your right i dont care about all the knockoffs out there,because if you want quality then buy custom/original,you want an inferior product then buy a knockoff/copy.Is there something wrong with that statement that makes me a piece of garbage?You wish bad on Mr. Barton for what?,defending himself?I wont lower myself to calling you names because everyones got a pair behind a screen.:cool:
 
NYC cue dude said:
Ill agree, I think John barton is a really low class wanna be know it all. There is no one in the world of pool that i despise more than he, and i only wish him continued failure in his personal and business life. If and when the opportunity arises that i can personally be a part of destroying him financially, Ill be first in lin and "all in".

i would urge all az'ers to individually, not as one "unit", to inundate sterling gaming with emails, and confront them with this exact question of wheher or not they are in fact importing these cases. They should also be aware of how one of thier employees has represented sterling intentions to import these cases, to the general public.

It is precisely jb's hypocrisy and complete lack of class which has earned him the distinction of being the first to be on my ignore list.

rg
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Randy,

You are so very boring. Control your urges ok. This has to be one fo the most pathetic things I have seen you post. Truly.

You disagree with me politically so you started all the vitriol between us and now you want to "destroy" me financially? Wow. I kinda figured you were on the crazy side but not this nuts.

You are more of a flamer than a drag queen in Greenwich Village. Oh wait, no name calling.

What is it with you and your ignore list that you feel the need to mention that I am "on" it every time you post about me? Can you be any more of an egomaniac?

But on that score you said, "It is precisely jb's hypocrisy and complete lack of class which has earned him the distinction of being the first to be on my ignore list.", which goes against the fact that you said I was on it because I am a liberal, according to you. Well then I guess all liberals are hypocrites and classless to you as well. Well, no matter, I am proud to wear the badge of being #1 on your famous ignore list. How's that working for you? You don't seem to be doing to well ignoring me are you?

What are you, like a gabillionaire? And you have nothing better to do that to continue to cyberstalk me? I don't know whether to be flattered or scared. At least I don't need to scared intellectually because you fight like a whiny baby online. Why don't YOU be the first to email to Sterling and tell them whatever it is that you think I did wrong? Sign YOUR name in big bold letters. Signed by His Highness, His Holiness, The most Exalted Randolph Goldwater, the King of New York, keeper of the treasured Ignore List.

But you know what I find most funny randy? That you have the gall to post in this thread after saying that all casemakers who make cases with rivets (as Jack does) are "wannabes". You do remember saying that don't you? Probably not but darling, you did.

Well, as much fun as this is, albeit mindless because refuting your weak ranting is about as hard as clubbing baby seals and it almost makes me feel bad to fight with someone as delusional as you, I do need to move on to other real things.

Ta ta old boy, pip pip.
 
our_auctionguy said:
Tap, tap, tap !!!
John Barton has killed any chance of me ever considering a case he had anything to do with, and wholeheartedly recommending anything else.
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That's great. Then it saves us the hassle of finding out we are not made for each other. I don't need to worry about getting an order from someone called "our_auctionguy".

And please do recommend that they try everything else. Do it wholeheartedly and with enthusiasm. I am sure that the recipient of such enthusiastic selling will be very grateful for all the business you send them. Everyone needs more sales and if this sparks you to get more business for my colleagues then that is fantastic.

I guess I have also killed any chance of you actually discussing things in a meaningful way. I answered all of your questions and comments and you only came back with more insults. But facing facts is always tougher and less fun that simply anonymously insulting a person isn't it?

Well, I hope at least in your recommending that you don't choose to perpetrate lies about me. At stick with the truth that the worst thing you can say about me is that you don't "like" me. But whatever you do - it's your conscience.
 
John Barton said:
FOR THE RECORD:

I am not now nor have I ever copied a Justis tooled case. Nor have I imported the copies nor will I.
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Mr. Barton,

I have read through all these threads. Jack Justis has no reason to publicly post a PM or email such as he did unless he felt it proved the point he was trying to make. My question is this,,,,,,,,,would you have continued on and had your company import these lower price, lower quality Justis copys if the issues in these threads had not been made public?

My guess is "YES" you would have. I'm sure others feel so too if they have read your posts. You talk and talk about this and that, innuendo and what the things are that "you would do", but your own words in the PM and in your other earlier posts show what you intentions were, plain and simple. And I say that intentions as well as actions define a man's character.

You sir, missed a golden opportunity in life,,,,,,,,your true calling should have been in the legal profession, that of a slimy defense attorny.

Mr. Barton, Jack Justis does not owe you squat. You sir, own that man an apology!
 
wyld78 said:
Mr. Barton,

I have read through all these threads. Jack Justis has no reason to publicly post a PM or email such as he did unless he felt it proved the point he was trying to make. My question is this,,,,,,,,,would you have continued on and had your company import these lower price, lower quality Justis copys if the issues in these threads had not been made public?

My guess is "YES" you would have. I'm sure others feel so too if they have read your posts. You talk and talk about this and that, innuendo and what the things are that "you would do", but your own words in the PM and in your other earlier posts show what you intentions were, plain and simple. And I say that intentions as well as actions define a man's character.

You sir, missed a golden opportunity in life,,,,,,,,your true calling should have been in the legal profession, that of a slimy defense attorny.

Mr. Barton, Jack Justis does not owe you squat. You sir, own that man an apology!
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No. You missed the entire point. My whole life in the cue case business I have not made anything that was not an improvement over what came before me.

If I had wanted to import those cases as pictured then I could have and would have. I could have imported them a year ago. I could of made copies of Justis cases ten years ago.

The only point Jack wanted to make is that he THOUGHT he was catching me in some kind of hypocrisy when the truth is that he didn't.

IF I ever decide to make any case that has any traces of Justis elements in it then you can be sure that I won't hide it.

Actions define a man's character. Ever heard the expression "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

The ONLY action that Jack needs to worry about is the UNDENIABLE FACT that I NEVER once came to a show with a Justis copy.

You want to guess at what I would do then look at what I have done. Look at my designs and tell me who is the most copied casemaker on Earth. It's not Jack that's for sure. It's not Dan Whitten either. It's John Barton. All of my models - which were ALL improvements on designs from people before me - have been copied vigorously.

You people need to quit with the wild speculation and deal with FACTS.

I told that pompous asshole Randy Goldwater that I would copy his Gina case just to spite him. I said that in anger. I can copy that case easily.

But afterwards when I calmed down I wrote Jim Murnak an email and told him that I wouldn't copy his cases. But I did tell him that I would probably borrow elements of his cases just as he borrowed elements of mine. We ALL do that. Including Jack.

So no, I don't owe Jack any sort of apology in the least. None at all. He owes me one, pure and simple.

As far as your name calling on the slimy defense attorney comment: well I suppose that I wouldn't NEED to defend myself if I wasn't FALSELY accused. However as stated above the FACTS are clear.
 
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John Barton said:
Now I have seen far more and better copies of your cases. So you can expect them to be showing up soon and they WON'T be from me or Sterling. I am too busy building cases that are beyond your capabilities.
Cases that will get copied far more than the simple designs you build. I will lose more money to copies than you can make in a year. So don't even try to go toe to toe with me.
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John, since you are into clarity--please when you make a statement like this, make it clear that it is your discount Chinese workers that are building these cases & your prices are 3 times that of a Justis.
 
What exactly is this case a copy of?? Because it's leather? Because of it's shape? the way it opens? I have seen hundreds of cases that resemble a Justis. But none with a Jak Justiss(i know its mispelled) tag on them.

I love Mr. Justis's work, and equate to buying his cases as the same as picking a Ralph Lauren Polo over a K-Mart polo. There is no real difference except the quality of materials used. I wear Ralph Laurens so I prefer a Justis case, but I see nothing wrong with the case in the picture. I can find 10 more that look like it in the Mueller catalog.
 
TheHole said:
What exactly is this case a copy of?? Because it's leather? Because of it's shape? the way it opens? I have seen hundreds of cases that resemble a Justis. But none with a Jak Justiss(i know its mispelled) tag on them.

I love Mr. Justis's work, and equate to buying his cases as the same as picking a Ralph Lauren Polo over a K-Mart polo. There is no real difference except the quality of materials used. I wear Ralph Laurens so I prefer a Justis case, but I see nothing wrong with the case in the picture. I can find 10 more that look like it in the Mueller catalog.
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Sometimes even the quality of materials used are similar, the real difference lies in the brandname/tag/logo/trademark..etc..probably other factors as well..
 
Fast Lenny said:
Yeah he did answer your question.;)
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Yeah, any comments made in anger don't count. Only comments made when you are thinking rationally and unemotionally. Thus, just go ahead and strike anything John has said in this thread.
 
I have to agree with CPN. This is truly a sad thread. As business people you will find it to be in your own best interest NOT to get into this type of discussion in the public eye. You both make yourselves look small in the eye's of the on lookers. Arguing and belittling each other in public is juvenile, and sophomoric to say the least.

As for me I wouldn't buy a case from either one of you. You both have cast enough doubt on each other and each other's product that I would not trust either one of you. This along with being foolish enough to throw darts at each other in public. You guy's should be ashamed of yourselves.

Neither one of you are acting as decent representatives of our sport. Perhaps a significant lose in sales is what both of you need.
 
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runscott said:
Yeah, any comments made in anger don't count. Only comments made when you are thinking rationally and unemotionally. Thus, just go ahead and strike anything John has said in this thread.
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good one, Scott !

JMHO, Barton comes across as the most classless & pompous AZZhole to post on any forum....:p

BAN JOHN BARTON !

FREE JIMBO !
 
I long since seen a pattern to Mr. JB.

1. Always in the middle of some silliness

2. Always proclaims himself the winner.

3. Always steps over the line and and never adequately apologizes for his actions.

John you can claim your cases are better from the highest mountain top. I would suggest a poll would prove differently. The man makes a fine case. If the equipment falls out when turned over well that may a desirable feature that I personally like.

If a KIA and a BMW both drove into a lake...would you declare the KIA a better and safer car because it floated on top longer?

I've been playing for 25 years and have never suffered from "spontaneous case inversion". You can have that one and put it in your adds. JB cases will protect you investment from S.C.I..

Nick
 
free Jimbo

d_flash said:
good one, Scott !

JMHO, Barton comes across as the most classless & pompous AZZhole to post on any forum....:p

BAN JOHN BARTON !

FREE JIMBO !
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It's about time someone lightened up here, yeah I agree. Wait a minute who's Jimbo, he must be the guy always posting stuff on the other forum. I doubt he's got the time to read all of this drama.

I own Justis and Instroke cases, it's seems like these guys are great one on one, but get them together, and you can't leave em alone for a minute. AZB is a great forum, like hearing from Shane's mom and dad, but I could have gone my whole life without reading this thread
 
I've been following this pissing match all week-end and I find it thoroughly disgusting, I wish everyone would just shut-up! I own fancy tooled Justis, Murnak and John Barton cases and the JB tooled case I have that no one has ever seen is exquisite. It is not a copy of anyones design and I feel it workmanship is both superior and artiscally better than anything I have ever seen. This prejudice against Chinese artisans reeks of the dark ages, An artist is an artist ragardless of where he hails from. I don't believe JB is a copy cat, not from what I have seen of his custom one of a kind cases he is currently creating. He doesn't have time to create knock-offs, I trully believe that is beneath him. I do feel he is fostering alot of negativity in his attempt to defend himself and that is a mistake. John, just shut-up! John's cases are unique, Jack's are unique and Jim's are unique. I own them all and none is better than the other.just different! I'd bet my Szmas and Bushkas that John is not importing knock-offs, so what is the real issue here? American vs. import. How many of you nay sayers own Beemeres and Hondas. This is free trade at the purest and is going to only get worse if the neo-con have anything to do with it. Free trade is here to last and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Personally I feel competition is a good thing as it gives everyone more options. If anyone, be it Justis or Murnake can produce a case as beautiful as the Barton "Gateway" case I just aquired, I would be the first in line to purchase it. Again John, stop wasting time defending yourself and let your product speak for itself.
 
Straight Pool said:
I've been following this pissing match all week-end and I find it thoroughly disgusting, I wish everyone would just shut-up! I own fancy tooled Justis, Murnak and John Barton cases and the JB tooled case I have that no one has ever seen is exquisite. It is not a copy of anyones design and I feel it workmanship is both superior and artiscally better than anything I have ever seen. This prejudice against Chinese artisans reeks of the dark ages, An artist is an artist ragardless of where he hails from. I don't believe JB is a copy cat, not from what I have seen of his custom one of a kind cases he is currently creating. He doesn't have time to create knock-offs, I trully believe that is beneath him. I do feel he is fostering alot of negativity in his attempt to defend himself and that is a mistake. John, just shut-up! John's cases are unique, Jack's are unique and Jim's are unique. I own them all and none is better than the other.just different! I'd bet my Szmas and Bushkas that John is not importing knock-offs, so what is the real issue here? American vs. import. How many of you nay sayers own Beemeres and Hondas. This is free trade at the purest and is going to only get worse if the neo-con have anything to do with it. Free trade is here to last and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Personally I feel competition is a good thing as it gives everyone more options. If anyone, be it Justis or Murnake can produce a case as beautiful as the Barton "Gateway" case I just aquired, I would be the first in line to purchase it. Again John, stop wasting time defending yourself and let your product speak for itself.
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Great post....well thought and stated. Positive rep coming your way. I agree with most of what you say, except the one thing highlighted in blue. Mass producing ringers is not competition....it's theft and it's unethical regardless of which continent you live on. The overall quality and case innerds may be inferior, but you have to admit that on the outside these cases look almost identical to Justis. I can totally see how Jack would be pissed.
 
I'm not condoning mass produced knockoffs! Personally I like Italian suits, English shoes, German cars, Swiss watches and American cues because they are simply superior to the competition. Cream always rises to the top. Let the consumer decide and caveat emptor!
 
Nick B said:
I long since seen a pattern to Mr. JB.

1. Always in the middle of some silliness

2. Always proclaims himself the winner.

3. Always steps over the line and and never adequately apologizes for his actions.

John you can claim your cases are better from the highest mountain top. I would suggest a poll would prove differently. The man makes a fine case. If the equipment falls out when turned over well that may a desirable feature that I personally like.

If a KIA and a BMW both drove into a lake...would you declare the KIA a better and safer car because it floated on top longer?

I've been playing for 25 years and have never suffered from "spontaneous case inversion". You can have that one and put it in your adds. JB cases will protect you investment from S.C.I..

Nick
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I know someone else on here like that...
 
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