Kamui ~ Step to how to install clear tip.

riedmich

.. dogs' friend ..
Silver Member
I have this one

ugy5usu9.jpg


The original angle of the cutting edge is too small, so I changed it to ~ 40 degrees. With this angle it is also OK for instalilng a samsara tip. But after 1 samsara the cutting edge has to be resharpened. So, ideal is it not doing a break tip with this method but it works well in principle.
 

x3dnd3x

Trainee Chalk Collector
Silver Member
Thanks for the tips.

Would there be any major differences as compared to Olfa/Xacto utility knifes? Japanese knifes are very sharp, this we would all have to admit but the thing is, they're not that locally available and shipping is always a b!tch.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the tips.

Would there be any major differences as compared to Olfa/Xacto utility knifes? Japanese knifes are very sharp, this we would all have to admit but the thing is, they're not that locally available and shipping is always a b!tch.

Are the "Olfa/Xacto" knives sharpened on only one side? From my recollection, the answer is "No" -- they are sharpened on both sides, and being able to lay the blade flat against the ferrule is paramount if you really want to cut the edge of the new tip perfectly level with the surface of the ferrule. A very sharp chisel can be used in this instance as well. A knife sharpened on both sides (even a thin blade like an Xacto knife) won't be able to get the cut edge of the new tip perfectly level with the ferrule, and you'll have to put some sanding effort into it to finish the job.

-Sean
 

x3dnd3x

Trainee Chalk Collector
Silver Member
Are the "Olfa/Xacto" knives sharpened on only one side? From my recollection, the answer is "No" -- they are sharpened on both sides, and being able to lay the blade flat against the ferrule is paramount if you really want to cut the edge of the new tip perfectly level with the surface of the ferrule. A very sharp chisel can be used in this instance as well. A knife sharpened on both sides (even a thin blade like an Xacto knife) won't be able to get the cut edge of the new tip perfectly level with the ferrule, and you'll have to put some sanding effort into it to finish the job.

-Sean

Arh okay. I get it. So the thing is that its sharpened on only 1 side.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Arh okay. I get it. So the thing is that its sharpened on only 1 side.

That's right, but you don't have to buy (and get shipped) from Japan to get a knife like this. You can make one yourself, or take a look at the one from Tiger Products in post #40.

EDIT: not sure if you have a Tiger Products distributor close by in Singapore?

-Sean <-- admittedly though, Japanese steel (for knives) is among the best in the world
 
Last edited:

x3dnd3x

Trainee Chalk Collector
Silver Member
That's right, but you don't have to buy (and get shipped) from Japan to get a knife like this. You can make one yourself, or take a look at the one from Tiger Products in post #40.

EDIT: not sure if you have a Tiger Products distributor close by in Singapore?

-Sean <-- admittedly though, Japanese steel (for knives) is among the best in the world

I doubt there is. The pool circle in my country ain't big. I'll try to look around. There are some specialized hardware shops in my country. Maybe they would sell some Japanese 1 sided knifes.

I already have a Grizzly but just interested in the knife thing.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well Kim, if that is a better job than what the local can do, I would suggest you buy a couple of tip tools and do your own from now on.



I would say a fantastic job. Can't get better than that, even with a lathe.

Obviously Blue is my favorite color. If the Zan tips play half as good as they look.

BTW, what kind of tools did you order. I would like to see them.

Thank you sir :smile:
I ordered these tools:
P1030332.JPG


718756468_o.jpg
 

9Ballr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On average I only need a new tip once a year to 18 months.
For this once a year install I definitely bring my shafts to a pro and have him do it.
Best spend 50 bucks the entire year.
I don't like the way the Kamui clear tips play, they seem to block the hit and lessen the feeling I get.
I'm all for Kamui just not these new tips they came out with.
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Kim, the Chisel looks like the one used in the video.

The other various sizes look like the Tiger Tina Blade. I have one that came with the Stack Leather Kit and have been meaning to give it a try on a tip.

Only thing left to buy is a good stone and Honing oil and yer set.

Being from Norway and close to knife and axe country, I imagine that a decent stone is easy to acquire.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kim, the Chisel looks like the one used in the video.

The other various sizes look like the Tiger Tina Blade. I have one that came with the Stack Leather Kit and have been meaning to give it a try on a tip.

Only thing left to buy is a good stone and Honing oil and yer set.

Being from Norway and close to knife and axe country, I imagine that a decent stone is easy to acquire.

I have worked as a chef, so my drawers are full of knives and wet stones :)

It`s gonna be interesting doing a tip install with those tools, I imagine that angled blade will do a great job at trimming tips. I bought the 18mm version.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Kim, the Chisel looks like the one used in the video.

The other various sizes look like the Tiger Tina Blade. I have one that came with the Stack Leather Kit and have been meaning to give it a try on a tip.

Only thing left to buy is a good stone and Honing oil and yer set.

Being from Norway and close to knife and axe country, I imagine that a decent stone is easy to acquire.

Terry:

To be fair, that Tiger Tina blade is sharpened on both sides, as you know, but because the Tina blade is thin, and the bevel is so precise, it's easy to hold one beveled side completely flat on the ferrule to do the same job. It's not like an Xacto blade, which has a total of 3 bevels on each side. The Tiger Tina blade is much like a dual-sided chisel. I've found it easy to hold flat against a ferrule in a lathe (or to use by hand as shown in the Kamui video posted by the OP).

Also, I did have to touch the blade up on an extra-fine stone from time to time, holding the blade such that the bevel on each side is completely flat against the stone.
-Sean
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Sean, I don't know what type of steel the Tina Blade is of.

Just spring steel? Either way, I imagine that if you got a length of spring steel, it wouldn't be difficult to grind the proper angle on a bench wheel.

When I worked at a Lock Smith shop, we would take a piece of spring steel and grind our
own different size broken key extractors. Just little hooks on the end really.

Seems like it would do the trick for tips.
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can take a piece of flat steel, cut the end off at a 30 degree (or more acute) angle, and sharpen one side (only!) as shown in that video. Leave the other side flat, so that it can lay flat against the ferrule.

Or, you can purchase a knife like that. Tiger Products makes a good one:

Hope that helps!
-Sean


55 smackers! You got to be freakin' kidding me!


All you need is a piece of good tool steel, a hacksaw, a mill file, a propane torch, a magnet, a can of used motor oil, and your kitchen oven to make the most awesome knife you'd want to own. For under $10 you can get an 18" length of Starrett O-1 oil-hardening tool steel... enough to make three knives.

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06104053

Anybody want to try one (or three) and I will write a tutorial and post it here. Tell you how to grind, heat-harden, quench, and temper to whatever hardness you desire. Been making my own knives like that one for years now. Ain't that hard if I can do it.

BTW I know that type of knife as a "violin maker's knife". Had one in my hands almost every day of my life for the last 40 years or so. They have many uses in my shop, without a doubt the most reached for tool out of hundreds I own.
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Pockets, I for one would be interested in that Tutorial, along with some pics.

Some time ago, I started buy equipment to build a Black Smith forge in the back yard.

I started watching UTube videos on it. Its on the Bucket List of things to do.

I have also watched just about every video available on Violin makers.

Just the hand carved Scroll is amazing enuff.

A magnet eh. I would like to see how you use one of those to make a knife.

The Tina Blade came with the Stack Kit other wise I wouldn't have paid that kind of money for it.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have Kamui Black tips on every cue I own.

However, on my Bob Owen cues, all five shafts have Kamui Black Clear tips.

But I went from Kamui Black medium hardness tip to soft & super-soft Kamui Black Clear tips on both Owen cues.

OMG........what a freakin' difference......the glazing problem isn't there like before......the tip hardness grabs the cue ball.

Switch to soft or super-soft when you go to Kamui Black Clear tips........you'll love the difference.

Matt B.
 
Last edited:

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
55 smackers! You got to be freakin' kidding me!

That's why I recommended (as the opening to my reply, no less) that he can try making one himself. ;) Probably doesn't even need to go through all the forging and hardening process if he starts out with hardened steel to begin with, albeit it will take a lot of work to grind down one side of it to create the bevel.

All you need is a piece of good tool steel, a hacksaw, a mill file, a propane torch, a magnet, a can of used motor oil, and your kitchen oven to make the most awesome knife you'd want to own. For under $10 you can get an 18" length of Starrett O-1 oil-hardening tool steel... enough to make three knives.

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06104053

Anybody want to try one (or three) and I will write a tutorial and post it here. Tell you how to grind, heat-harden, quench, and temper to whatever hardness you desire. Been making my own knives like that one for years now. Ain't that hard if I can do it.

BTW I know that type of knife as a "violin maker's knife". Had one in my hands almost every day of my life for the last 40 years or so. They have many uses in my shop, without a doubt the most reached for tool out of hundreds I own.

I would be very interested in that tutorial, Dan. More knowledge and skills to add to the quiver!

-Sean
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Probably doesn't even need to go through all the forging and hardening process if he starts out with hardened steel to begin with, albeit it will take a lot of work to grind down one side of it to create the bevel.

Ah, but where does one get a piece of hardened steel? Files (W-1 or W-2 tool steel) are way too hard as they are and need an additional step (annealing) before you can even begin. Spring steel is too soft as you find it without using the same heat treatment store-bought steel needs. Easiest in the beginning to just order some steel of a known alloy and start there. O-1 is just about the most user friendly tool steel out there.

OK... I'll do quick overview in my next post. I'll do a full-blown tutorial thread with pics (maybe even a video) if enough folks still can't figure it out, but it's a lot easier to understand than some of these aiming systems out there. Lol ;)
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When you get your tool steel from the supplier, it comes in a softened (annealed) state. You need to cut it and shape it while it is still soft, then heat treat it to the proper hardness:



1. Cut your steel to a comfortable length with a hacksaw. First decide what angle (skew) you want the basic shape to be and cut it at that angle. 45º is a good compromise, but many of my knives are shallower/steeper than 45º. Steeper (more square) acts more like a chisel, shallower (more angled) makes more of a slicing cut. You want a slicing cut for leather, so I would just copy the angle on the ready-made ones. Don't worry, there are no patents on any angles that I am aware of.:wink:

2. Grind or file the single bevel for the cutting edge. If you are right-handed, you will want to grind so the bevel is on top when the point is to your left (like the one in the video).

The shallower the angle, the sharper you can get the edge, but the less durable it will be. A 15-20º included angle would be a good angle for leather. Besides providing a flat surface to ride against the ferrule, a big advantage of a single-bevel design is that it is way easier to grind and maintain a shallow included angle.

You cannot ruin the temper at this point because it isn't there to begin with, so you can grind aggressively. Don't try to make a sharpened edge at this point, though, the initial heat treatment will totally destroy that edge anyway.

3. Get your torch, can of oil, a pair of Vise-Grips, and a magnet large enough to hold in your hand leaving about an inch sticking out. You will see why soon.

If your torch comes with a stand, all the better, otherwise just stand it up on end and it should stay. A one-pound coffee can is a good size for the quenching oil. I really like to use olive oil, and bought a gallon years ago for the purpose (smells great during the quench). You can also buy specialized quenching oil, but used motor oil works perfectly fine for our purposes. Just make sure there is no gas mixed in it or you may be visiting the ER soon after. Best to have a small plate of scrap metal to cover the can anyway, just in case of a flash fire.

4. If you are right-handed, hold the magnet in the left hand with the oil can to the right of you. Clamp the steel at the end with the Vice-Grips, light the torch and proceed to heat the steel up. Try to play it in the flame in a way that heats it up as evenly as possible. You want to get the steel red-hot (see colors on the left side of the photo below) as quickly as you can (MAPP gas works better in this regard) and quench it in the oil at about 1450ºF. Best to do this all in a semi-dark place if possible as it makes it easier to see the proper color of the hot steel.

How do you know it's at 1450º? Well, an interesting property of tool steel is that at the very temperature that the proper crystalline structure for hardening occurs (carbides are formed within the steel), the steel also loses it's magnetic properties. So, when that magnet won't pull the steel anymore (longish magnet is so you don't burn yer fingers), that puppy is done. Instantly plunge it into the oil (be careful, it may cause a small flash fire, best to do this outside) and shake the piss out of it while it is still submerged until it is cool (couple minutes for a small, thin knife blank).

Don't cheat the agitation part, it is critical to keep cool oil flowing over the surface of the steel in order to cool it as quickly as possible. Just jamming the blank into the oil allows it to heat up the oil in the local area around the blade, defeating the rapid cooling you are trying to achieve. You should be able to feel the vibrations in the steel during the beginning of the quench.

5. Once the steel has cooled it will be just about as hard as the file you shaped the bevel with. In fact, a file should just slide over the surface and not cut the steel if you did it right. It is too hard at this point, so now you need to remove some of that hardness by tempering the steel.

I was taught to shine up the steel with some fine wet-or-dry sandpaper and slowly re-heat it while paying careful attention to the color changes. If you apply the heat to the butt end and watch the surface, you will see it change color. As the blade heats, the color changes from a light straw yellow to brown, then purple, then blue. The heat will migrate toward the other (business) end of the tool, as will the changes in color. The instant the steel at the edge turns a light straw color, plunge the steel into the oil and agitate until it is cool. The back end of the blade will be softer spring steel, while the cutting end will be the proper hardness for edge retention. Look at the colors on the right-hand side of the photo below as a guide to the proper color.

OR...

Set your oven for about 425º and leave the steel in there for a few hours. This will temper the entire blade to the proper hardness. Use a good oven thermometer because temp is critical here. I'm lucky enough to have found a used lab kiln that gets up to 2000ºF, and is very accurate (I can also use my wife's digitally controlled glass kiln) but a regular oven and an accurate thermometer is all you need.

6. Grind the final edge bevel. This can be the trickiest part, because if you get the edge too hot and blue it.... Guess what you just turned into fine spring steel? LOL

Take your time, go lightly, and quench frequently in water. Stop grinding when you can feel a burr forming on the back of the edge. Switch to stones from here on to sharpen the final edge. Or you can use plain old wet-or-dry paper, just Google "scary sharp" and you will get all you need to know about putting a shaving edge on a tool with finishing paper alone.

Didn't turn out quite as planned? Well, you still have two more pieces that you only paid about $3 apiece for. And that file you used to shape them? Well, it's probably pretty much worn out by now. Go to the gardening dept. at the big box store and get a bag of vermiculite. Go home, put it into a baking dish, heat up that file until it is bright cherry red all over and immediately bury it in the vermiculite. Leave to cool slowly overnight and you will have a fine piece of W-1 or W-2 tool steel, perfectly annealed for the next project. :cool:
 

Attachments

  • Temperature-color-chart-large.jpg
    Temperature-color-chart-large.jpg
    37.9 KB · Views: 410

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Le Pro Tips....

To prevent Le Pro tips from fluffing up when using a lathe, I also trim them down by hand

similar to the video. Trim them down by hand with a new razor blade, then finish on the lathe.



I used to use the Loc-Tite 401 but it cost a lot when ordering out of the MSC catalog.
 
Top