Karl Boyes comments on racking

AtLarge said:
Yes, it has been rack your own in recent years and will be again this year.
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In that case it seems pretty clear to me that what Boyes was saying was that racking the balls yourself and intentionally leaving gaps between the balls is cheating, not that simply inspecting the rack when a referee racks the balls is cheating (that would be a pretty silly thing to say, IMO).
 
I've been messing here and there when possible with this year's US Open proposed rack & break format. With the Accu Rack being used, 9B on the spot and break box (possibly a slightly smaller one idk) I think the best thing to do would be opponent racks. I say this because I think the best thing an opponent could do under this format would be to give a tight and straight rack, anything other than that may increase the breakers chance of making a ball.

When using a normal rack I understand rack your own or opponent racks can be brutal on everyone involved and spectating but with the Accu Rack in play even the shakiest of players can put up a tight rack pretty quick. If it's rack your own I believe there will be more arguing, opponents getting up to check the racks and accusations of cheating.
As I stated above, if my opponent gives me something other than tight and straight I think they're increasing my chances of making a ball otb.

Note to John Brumback; Hi John, we haven't had a racking argument in American Rotation in 2 years ;)
 
Neutral racker instead of rack your won

real bartram said:
I have played the U.S. Open the past few years .
It's a reg rack you can make gaps .
Svb has a big edge .
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Wow, man that is explosive allegation in other words, you concur with Boyes
Of cos there will no such rack manipulation nonsense if it is neutral racker which should be the way.
Question is: If it is rackyour own, shouldn't other players also master rack reading so that they will not be at disadvantage?
cos really if rack your own is allowed, it is extremely difficult to legislate and prevent players from rack manipulation
:smile:
 
Apocalypse2015 said:
If all the balls aren't touching its a problem.

If there's gaps and a re-rack isn't an option, you should probably learn what each gap means.
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Actually small gaps between the balls is the only thing that keeps the game random enough for it to be worth playing. a "perfect" rack would be predictable to the point of being able to repeat a specific out over and over again. players like duel have actually proven this when a magic rack is used which keeps the balls too tight and breaks too repeatably.

Also the nine could not be moved on a break with a perfect no-gap rack, and 9 on the breaks would almost never happen (take that as good or bad i guess)
 
real bartram said:
I have played the U.S. Open the past few years .
It's a reg rack you can make gaps .
Svb has a big edge .
Click to expand...

For the streamed table, at least, it was a triangle rack in recent years (Diamond wooden rack in 2013 and 2014, Delta-13 metal rack in 2011 and 2012). However, from what we have heard, it will be an Accu-Rack template this year.
 
PoolBum said:
In that case it seems pretty clear to me that what Boyes was saying was that racking the balls yourself and intentionally leaving gaps between the balls is cheating, not that simply inspecting the rack when a referee racks the balls is cheating (that would be a pretty silly thing to say, IMO).
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Lol: Once more.....

While he was commentating, Karl DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE PLAYERS INTENTIONALLY LEAVING GAPS BETWEEN THE BALLS at the US Open 9 Ball Championship.

Karl suggested during the commentary that being able to "read the rack" (analyze the gaps and what those gaps might mean for the breaker) was the equivalent of "CHEATING". This was brought up because Mike and Shane were inspecting the rack that the referee had racked, before they broke the rack.

Hope that's a bit clearer.

JoeyA
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Intentionally tilting, moving up or down from the spot, or creating gaps in the rack for your benefit or to your opponents disadvantage is cheating. As much as I hate it, I have to agree with Boyes
on this one. Warnings should be issued at first offense, and unless heeded should lead to dq, if a pattern of this behavior is discovered.

Referee should always rack, if that is at all possible.
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Referees DID RACK in this event. Karl spoke about the US Open and gaps and reading the rack when Mike Dechaine and Shane Van Boening started to inspect the rack.

KARL DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PLAYERS INTENTIONALLY creating gaps, even when he was talking about the US Open. If Karl had said something about the players intentionally creating gaps, then that would have been the silly thing. He only commented when Mike and Shane inspected the rack before they broke and Karl called "reading the rack", "CHEATING".

I really don't know how anyone could read anything less into his comments.

JoeyA
 
spartan said:
Wow, man that is explosive allegation in other words, you concur with Boyes
Of cos there will no such rack manipulation nonsense if it is neutral racker which should be the way.
Question is: If it is rackyour own, shouldn't other players also master rack reading so that they will not be at disadvantage?
cos really if rack your own is allowed, it is extremely difficult to legislate and prevent players from rack manipulation
:smile:
Click to expand...

Don't get it wrong
I don't think he is cheating at all .
 
It really depends how many and where the gaps are.

The problem is the 9 ball rack itself. Gaps, no gaps, rack your own, 9 on the spot. Don't matter it all can be taken advantage of.

People call for a neutral racker, that will only work when the players do not have the right to inspect the rack.

RussPrince said:
Actually small gaps between the balls is the only thing that keeps the game random enough for it to be worth playing. a "perfect" rack would be predictable to the point of being able to repeat a specific out over and over again. players like duel have actually proven this when a magic rack is used which keeps the balls too tight and breaks too repeatably.

Also the nine could not be moved on a break with a perfect no-gap rack, and 9 on the breaks would almost never happen (take that as good or bad i guess)
Click to expand...
 
spartan said:
So Karl Boyes was guest commentator at World Cup of Pool Round 1 match between USA and Qatar.
He made some strong comments on racking of Shane and Mike Dechaine https://youtu.be/1XpqRlQQEwk?t=2124

Basically, he griped about rack reading by SVB and MD. He thought it is "massive advantage" and then exclaims that he considers it "cheating".

Is it sour grapes on his part?

I may be wrong but there is no rule against rack reading. Like in WCOP, players are allowed to view (or read) the rack but they cannot ask for rerack,
Maybe some rack experts can weigh in. :)
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So Karl must be moronic to complain that Shane and Mike chose to use there
brains. Obviously Karl could learn the same thing if he chose to but has not.
Its like a doctor complaining that 2 other doctors know way to much about
the human anatomy and is hurting his business.
Just retarded IMO.
 
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