Keith McCready beats MIKA 8-7 for the HOT-SEAT

[JAM]

I've got some nice pictures to post, but I decided to hit the sack last night after the long trek home AND especially after reading this thread. Thanks for the kind words from the posters who are well aware about the racking dilemma, a never-ending battle. I'm reminded of the words spoken by Paul Newman in TCOM to The Miz at the big tournament in Atlantic City, when he turned to him and said, "Is this your first tournament, friend?," or words to that effect.

It's usually a 6-1/2-hour drive from D.C. to Turning Stone, but when we turned RIGHT out of the Turning Stone entrance, we should have gone LEFT and ended up driving about 40 miles out of our way EAST before making a U-turn and going WEST.

An occupational hazard for many a player is sleep deprivation, especially in the casino environment. Most of the players moseyed on back to the poker room and got themselves in action. On any given day, you could see Allen Hopkins, Jerry Slivka, Sparky Ferrell, Tom "Shorty" D'Alphonso, Ryan McCreesh, just to name a few. Though there were no action games on a field of green at this event, there was sure plenty of action in the casino game rooms.

Frankie White and Keith McCready tried time and time again to score a big win on the craps table, but came up empty after the long haul, but they sure did have a whole lot of fun barking it up at the pit bosses when they did get themselves a little run here and there.

As we all know, Mika Immonen a/k/a The Iceman is currently on top of his game. I asked him about his recent win in Europe, not remembering the name of the tournament, and he told me that he won TWO events, back to back. He is definitely a traveling globe trotter and can win time and time again. Sometimes, though, as it is in the game of 9-ball, it comes down to the rolls and a little Lady Luck.

It is always GREAT when there are designated match times, as was the case at the Turning Stone Casino, allowing the players and spectators to schedule their days. Even with the advanced scheduling, I had difficulties adhering to time deadlines as most of our friends wanted to hang out in the game rooms. For the players who love that action, it's incredibly fun to have action available 24/7.

By the end of the week, I was a tired puppy. I must have walked 10 miles every single day, the perimeter of the Turning Stone, and pool players were all over the place enjoying themselves. Here's a cute pic of Tony Mougey from Ohio, Keith, Frankie White, and a smiling Jerry Slivka!

JAM

 

[CaptainHook]

Jam, Thank you for the pic's & the update. Congrats to KM. I always liked watching him play.

 

[JAM]

Here's a cute pic of what I call "The New York Contingency."

These young players were having a ball. Evan Broxmeyer had a very good tournament, as did Joey Korsiak a/k/a "Joey K." and George "Ginky" Sansouci. From left to right, Evan, Kong, Joey K., Ginky, and a friend.

JAM

 

[Egg McDogit]

congrats to keith for his strong finish! don't let these idiots bring you down

I've got some nice pictures to post, but I decided to hit the sack last night after the long trek home AND especially after reading this thread. Thanks for the kind words from the posters who are well aware about the racking dilemma, a never-ending battle. I'm reminded of the words spoken by Paul Newman in TCOM to The Miz at the big tournament in Atlantic City, when he turned to him and said, "Is this your first tournament, friend?," or words to that effect.

 

[iacas]

You know, I was so excited to get home and post about the Joss/Turning Stone Casino tournament, along with some pics I took.

As you should be. Keith played and finished well and he had a large following that rooted hard for him.

Some folks may not understand what players go through in the heat of the battle, and, yes, the racking was quite a dilemma, not only with Keith and Mika, but with other competitors as well at this event, like when Kim Davenport was on a hill-hill and his opponent made him re-rack the balls for 10 minutes, just to cite one example.

And Kim's opponent re-racked the balls for ten minutes, and did so without complaint. No referees were involved. Keith threw the balls in the rack, slid it forward, lifted off the rack, and called it "good" several times when it wasn't. I seriously doubt Mika was asking for a re-rack when he didn't need them, because he was stressed out by the way he was being treated, too.

At no other table that I saw was an oponent treated with the hostility and childishness I saw exhibited at in the KM/Mika match, and none of it was coming from Mika. Every other player I saw took great care in racking the balls, and when asked, re-racked without comment or complaint. Every other player was going through the same "heat of the battle." Only one player behaved poorly.

Some tables actually did rack better than others, and the table that Mika and Keith were playing on was difficult to get the balls in the rack tight, which happend again in earlier and later matches when a designated racker was assigned on several of the tables.

Knowing this, perhaps he could have actually taken his time to rack the balls. Knowing the conditions were tough, perhaps he could have accepted that he had to re-rack a few times without complaining each time. And the table condition had little to do with the rack being aligned properly, just with balls moving a lot.

I watched another match the day before on the same table, and you're correct: it seemed to be one of the more troublesome tables. But in that match, the guys took great care in racking the balls and things didn't get out of hand in the least bit.

Sorry, Iacas, but there were no "bad guys" at this tournament, to include Keith McCready, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I.

Indeed I am entitled to my opinion and you yours. But thank you for reporting my post anyway. I suppose next time I should watch out before I dare so much as to disagree with you while talking about something pool-related.

I don't think so, unless you were sitting on the overhead lamp. It would be an impossibility for ANYONE to see the formation of the rack from any seat in the stands. What a jerk you are. If there is anyone who's a disgrace, it is you, Pal.

I was also the guy with the pretty capable camera lens.

As a rule, and as someone trained in the sciences, I attempt to gather as many facts as possible before making an opinion. At first I thought Mika was being unnecessarily picky - nobody else had had this many problems and I'd not seen any of Mika's other matches except across the way. I changed my mind when I saw with my own eyes fairly large gaps between the side balls through my camera lens.

Furthermore, please understand that I know the difference between calling someone something and calling their behavior something. Smart people can do stupid things - doesn't make 'em stupid. In this instance, I was clear to say that his behavior was a disgrace, not the man himself.

Wow, first time at a real tourney dude? This stuff happens all the time, but usually someone doesnt come to a pool forum and go off spouting holier then thou crap about it. But I have to say you are the first person on my ignore list for your bashing of a pool player. The next time you want to make yourself look like a bigger ass then u did in this post, I won't be reading it.

None of my post was "holier than thou." You darn well bet I wouldn't have treated my opponent as Keith did, but I didn't even say that. And yes, it was my first time at a high-level pool tournament. But I watched just about all the action I could and you know what? Not one other person I saw had a childish little fight about racking the balls. That says something to me.

None of that implies or makes me "holier than thou." It does, however, make me observant. I've compared pool to golf several times, and in golf behavior like he exhibited Sunday against Mika would not be tolerated.

I wasn't there, were you? I'm not agreeing with him but I will stand up for his right to his opinion, especially if he was there.

I like to hear an honest opinion from people who attend pool tournaments. I definitely don't want people declining to voice their opinions just because they're afraid someone here might not like it.

It's my honest opinion. As I said, I wanted to be a fan of Keith's. His own actions turned my favor towards his opponent. My wife - who really couldn't have cared less who won and who barely cares about pool at all - expressed the same thing to me. She said she "felt bad for that kid" (Immonen) and also said "I have to hold back my teacher instincts, but even my seventh graders don't behave like this."

Those are the facts of my (and my wife's) opinions. I didn't post here to be a jerk, just to provide another viewpoint on Keith's match versus Mika (which, contrary to the subject, was won 9-8).

Sir, I only question your timing. Could this not have waited a day or two?

Why should I have waited a day or two? I could have posted mid-day Sunday. I waited until late evening Monday, not because I wanted to, but because I'd caught up on work by then and could "dilly dally" a bit.

I sincerely hope this is my last post here. However, attempts to make my post(s) into something they're not or to call me names will likely be met with further responses, as I've never been one to sit by in such cases.

I'm not one to back down from two things: the truth or an opinion. I'm also one who takes great care in separating the two. My posts have contained a bit of both, and as intelligent people, I imagine you can determine which is which.

 

[JAM]

These two players get the BEST DRESSED Award at the Turning Stone. When Joey K. was in combat, he was sporting his Sunday best, though he is shown here on the offs with a very dapper George "Ginky" Sansouci. I just love these two players, full of enthusiasm and representative of some of the East Coast's finest.

JAM

 

[cuetechasaurus]

As you should be. Keith played and finished well and he had a large following that rooted hard for him.


And Kim's opponent re-racked the balls for ten minutes, and did so without complaint. No referees were involved. Keith threw the balls in the rack, slid it forward, lifted off the rack, and called it "good" several times when it wasn't. I seriously doubt Mika was asking for a re-rack when he didn't need them, because he was stressed out by the way he was being treated, too.

At no other table that I saw was an oponent treated with the hostility and childishness I saw exhibited at in the KM/Mika match, and none of it was coming from Mika. Every other player I saw took great care in racking the balls, and when asked, re-racked without comment or complaint. Every other player was going through the same "heat of the battle." Only one player behaved poorly.


Knowing this, perhaps he could have actually taken his time to rack the balls. Knowing the conditions were tough, perhaps he could have accepted that he had to re-rack a few times without complaining each time. And the table condition had little to do with the rack being aligned properly, just with balls moving a lot.

I watched another match the day before on the same table, and you're correct: it seemed to be one of the more troublesome tables. But in that match, the guys took great care in racking the balls and things didn't get out of hand in the least bit.


Indeed I am entitled to my opinion and you yours. But thank you for reporting my post anyway. I suppose next time I should watch out before I dare so much as to disagree with you while talking about something pool-related.


I was also the guy with the pretty capable camera lens.

As a rule, and as someone trained in the sciences, I attempt to gather as many facts as possible before making an opinion. At first I thought Mika was being unnecessarily picky - nobody else had had this many problems and I'd not seen any of Mika's other matches except across the way. I changed my mind when I saw with my own eyes fairly large gaps between the side balls through my camera lens.

Furthermore, please understand that I know the difference between calling someone something and calling their behavior something. Smart people can do stupid things - doesn't make 'em stupid. In this instance, I was clear to say that his behavior was a disgrace, not the man himself.


None of my post was "holier than thou." You darn well bet I wouldn't have treated my opponent as Keith did, but I didn't even say that. And yes, it was my first time at a high-level pool tournament. But I watched just about all the action I could and you know what? Not one other person I saw had a childish little fight about racking the balls. That says something to me.

None of that implies or makes me "holier than thou." It does, however, make me observant. I've compared pool to golf several times, and in golf behavior like he exhibited Sunday against Mika would not be tolerated.


It's my honest opinion. As I said, I wanted to be a fan of Keith's. His own actions turned my favor towards his opponent. My wife - who really couldn't have cared less who won and who barely cares about pool at all - expressed the same thing to me. She said she "felt bad for that kid" (Immonen) and also said "I have to hold back my teacher instincts, but even my seventh graders don't behave like this."

Those are the facts of my (and my wife's) opinions. I didn't post here to be a jerk, just to provide another viewpoint on Keith's match versus Mika (which, contrary to the subject, was won 9-8).


Why should I have waited a day or two? I could have posted mid-day Sunday. I waited until late evening Monday, not because I wanted to, but because I'd caught up on work by then and could "dilly dally" a bit.

I sincerely hope this is my last post here. However, attempts to make my post(s) into something they're not or to call me names will likely be met with further responses, as I've never been one to sit by in such cases.

I'm not one to back down from two things: the truth or an opinion. I'm also one who takes great care in separating the two. My posts have contained a bit of both, and as intelligent people, I imagine you can determine which is which.

You did nothing wrong. I like Jam and Keith too, but you are a spectator who was annoyed at Keith's antics (which I find to be funny, his opponents may not), and you made public your feelings about them. Personally I don't think professional pool players should be allowed to drink an alcoholic beverage during a tournament.

 

[JAM]

As you should be. Keith played and finished well and he had a large following that rooted hard for him...[snipped the rest]

I think you're a little green, friend. If you actually knew the players, as I do, some of them quite well, you'd be well aware that Keith doesn't give anybody a bad rack intentionally.

I'm glad you and your wife enjoyed the tournament, but I am calling you a liar if you say that you could see any cracks in the rack formation from any seat in the stands. It is, again, as I stated previously, an impossibility, but it is, again, as I stated previously, an attempt on your part to degrade Keith's performance in that match which resulted in a big win for him.

Because of the sleep deprivation throughout the week, Keith really had to give it his all in order to advance the charts. We both knew that Mika was going to be a tough set for him to get through. After he did score the winning game, he immediately left to go to the bathroom as the tears welled up in his eyes because he got a little emotional about this win. Keith respects Mika 100 percent, and vice versa. I have lost all respect for you, Iacas, as a member of this forum, and I do believe you are very green when it comes to tournaments.

If my reporting your post is a problem for you, contact Mike Howerton and ban me. I have no problem leaving this forum if the likes of you are at the control of the helm. I am not going to debate every one of your points because it's useless. As evidence by your postings, you have no clue.

Oh, and by the way, you should have gotten your camera and taken a picture of the hole in the spot on the table that Keith and Mika were playing on, but you forgot to mention that one, didn't you? Why do you think Mika missed the 8-ball? Think about that one a while and gnaw on it before you respond, Mr. Green Man.

JAM

 

[Koop]

WAY TO GO KEITH...

Whatever happened, happened but this was a great finish for your man JAM and I couldn't be happier for him. I didn't read the whole thread but anyone attempting to diminish his performance is wrong in my opinion. With a class of players like this it takes a boatload of skill and luck to make it this far and he did DAMN WELL.

See you soon,

Koop

 

[JAM]

Meanwhile, back to the tournament, here is a picture of Kim Davenport and Keith McCready, two Californians. Kim has recently made his comeback on the tournament trail, and he had an excellent showing this past week.

The match between Kim Davenport and Ryan McCreesh came down to the hill-hill. The last game, Ryan continually rejected Kim's rack, and this little back-and-forth lasted about 10 minutes. This was a very important game, with Ryan breaking on the hill-hill, and Ryan, as any red-blooded player would do, wanted to get the "perfect" rack, if there is such a thing. When the dust settled, Kim snatched the almighty win.

JAM

 

[JAM]

I adore Danny "Kid Delicious" Basavich, and when Keith had to face him in the tournament, I was sweating bullets, knowing how strong Danny's game is.

BTW, I have NEVER seen Danny so happy, and as you can see in this picture, he is surrounded by goodness, shown here posing with his lovely lady, Danielle, and little Angelo. What a cute kid!

JAM

 

[Purdman]

I don't think so, unless you were sitting on the overhead lamp. It would be an impossibility for ANYONE to see the formation of the rack from any seat in the stands. What a jerk you are. If there is anyone who's a disgrace, it is you, Pal.
JAM

To be included, there will be no ad hominem attacks. No name calling nor insults. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but calling them an idiot because of their opinion is not.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You can agree to disagree no matter who you are without name calling. Those who are not in favor here on AZ would get a warning. Tsk, Tsk!
Don

 

[iacas]

I think you're a little green, friend. If you actually knew the players, as I do, some of them quite well, you'd be well aware that Keith doesn't give anybody a bad rack intentionally.

JAM, be fair. I never suggested he was intentionally giving bad racks. I didn't imply it or say it. There's a world of difference between "he was giving bad racks" and "he was intentionally giving bad racks."

I'm glad you and your wife enjoyed the tournament, but I am calling you a liar if you say that you could see any cracks in the rack formation from any seat in the stands.

With a zoom lens, it's quite easy. Several times, the wing ball would wander. Most of the gaps I saw were between the second ball back from the head ball and the wing ball.

It is, again, as I stated previously, an impossibility, but it is, again, as I stated previously, an attempt on your part to degrade Keith's performance in that match which resulted in a big win for him.

I'm not degrading his performance. He played well, and only a late rally by Mika pushed the match hill-hill. It was 8-5 or 8-6 earlier, and 6-2 earlier too as you noted. Keith played well, and I've never said he didn't.

I also said I wouldn't post again unless I was called names or attacked or something, and you calling me a liar is well across that line. Several facts remain:
1) Mika saw gaps (and poor alignment).
2) Keith saw gaps several times when Mika pointed them out.
3) The ref was called over and saw gaps.
4) I saw gaps through my camera lens.

As I said, my first thought was that Mika was being too picky. I'm not a fan of slow play (don't ask me how much I "enjoyed" the Basavich-Souquet match! ), and it seemed at first to me that Mika was taking longer than he needed to. I wanted to see the match finish because my wife and I had to leave right afterwards. I started to get upset with Mika for being so picky.

But then I looked through the camera lens. I saw what Mika, Keith, and the ref saw: gaps. No, I'm not claiming that I could see them with my bare eyes. But with a 500mm zoom lens? Yeah, I could. It ain't an impossibility. That's what zoom lenses do...

I have lost all respect for you, Iacas, as a member of this forum, and I do believe you are very green when it comes to tournaments.

I've admitted quite plainly that this was my first high-level pool tournament. But none of that makes my observations any less real or valid. I did not observe behavior like Keith's from anyone else during the entire tournament. I could also say that I've never heard of anyone behaving like that in high-level pool and that too would be accurate and honest.

I granted you the trouble some (or even "many" or "most") had with racking the balls. I too observed that at this tournament. But again, nobody else behaved as Keith did when asked to re-rack, and that is what's relevant.

If my reporting your post is a problem for you, contact Mike Howerton and ban me. I have no problem leaving this forum if the likes of you are at the control of the helm. I am not going to debate every one of your points because it's useless. As evidence by your postings, you have no clue.

I'm not going to do that because I feel that everyone is entitled to share their opinions with each other, and to discuss things so long as they're not calling people names or acting unruly. I wouldn't even think of reporting your posts or calling for a ban or something as silly as that.

It also does not bother me that you do not respect me, because I would not respect myself if I stood by and let someone - anyone - falsely call me a liar. That's going well past the line. My own personal line, that is.

Oh, and by the way, you should have gotten your camera and taken a picture of the hole in the spot on the table that Keith and Mika were playing on, but you forgot to mention that one, didn't you?

Uhm, that's beside the point. Other matches were played on the same table, other opponents were asked to re-rack balls, and I only saw Keith behave poorly. My opinion has nothing to do with the table(s) and everything to do with how one player behaved.

Why do you think Mika missed the 8-ball? Think about that one a while and gnaw on it before you respond, Mr. Green Man.

I honestly feel that comments like that do more to make you look bad than they do to make me look bad, so by all means, carry on.

 

[JAM]

Here is a poster who has lost all enthusiasm for sharing my tournament trip, but I am very happy that Keith, given the opportunity to play, which isn't too frequent these days, did well this past week. I am very proud of him.

Here is a snapshot of the winners circle, with Gip, the Native American who helped bring this tournament to fruition at the Turning Stone, Thorsten Hohmann who won the event, Joss Tour TD Mike Zuglan who made this a reality for 128 players from around the world, and runner-up Keith McCready.

JAM

 

[Egg McDogit]

someone got called an idiot when they voiced a really stupid and uninformed opinion. there are a lot of idiots on this forum, so get used to it.

To be included, there will be no ad hominem attacks. No name calling nor insults. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but calling them an idiot because of their opinion is not.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You can agree to disagree no matter who you are without name calling. Those who are not in favor here on AZ would get a warning. Tsk, Tsk!
Don

 

[JAM]

JAM, be fair. I never suggested he was intentionally giving bad racks. I didn't imply it or say it....

And you are a back-peddling crawfish. Again, it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE -- again, IMPOSSIBLE -- with a zoom lens or the naked eye to see any crack in any rack unless you were sitting on top of the overhead table lamp.

I am not going to pick apart your posts and display your ignorance. You truly have no clue as to tournament happenings, as evidenced by your posts. If you think Keith behaved poorly, you haven't seen the best of the best when it comes to racking problems. Enjoy the forum, Iacas. I am now of the opinion that AzBilliards isn't a good place for posters like me, a mere railbird with a zest to report my tournament experience. Your opinions are truly slanted towards degrading one of AzBilliards so-called "pros." I don't think you will be seeing Keith or myself posting here much anymore, and for that, Keith thanks you.

JAM

 

[Black-Balled]

Dammit, JAM. Pleeeeze don't go! As stated earlier in this thread, you and Keith are a part of our AZB family and we wouldn't be whole w/ out you.

 

[pokerhammer]

someone got called an idiot when they voiced a really stupid and uninformed opinion. there are a lot of idiots on this forum, so get used to it.

How come I got a warning for calling someone an idiot, yet other people can name call all they want and nothing happens. Also, why does Iacas get to delete posts in other threads yet nothing happens to him , and other people get banned. lol, this entire forum makes no sense.

 

[Black-Balled]

...this entire forum makes no sense.

And that's the way we like it...or don't like it

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

I've tried to out iacas on my ignore list but it won't let me. As he is a moderator.
I guess once again a moderator is just going to run willy nilly around here. At least Icon was funny, this one deleting posts and then slamming a pro player for racking,,,,LOL omg get a grip
Go to about ten tourneys for big money and then come back and talk about racking.
,,,sheeesh