Kevin Varney ****Mr. Wilson

[Southpaw]

Unfortunately, it's his silence that is speaking volumes.

I was thinking the same thing. In the past, if someone had a beef with Mr. Varney, he has always been quick to respond. If he was at the Smokey Mountain Shootout, then his health should be better and he should address this and give his side of the story. JMO.

Southpaw

 

[manwon]

Craig,

First, thank you for the civil post. I appreciate it. I'll try to respond in the order you have mentioned.

I last spoke to Kevin last week, when the other thread was up. I actually missed the last part of that thread, so I don't even know what happened that it was deleted and will have to rely on hearsay as to what occurred in that thread.

My first thought about giving his number is that it would be posted in an instant. I think we both know that is the likely case. If Kevin tells me it's ok to post or give his private information, I will most certainly do so without reservation. I wouldn't give my worst enemy's private information out in today's cyber age. I know most of your (Craig) information is public knowledge, but I wouldn't even give your information out without your consent. So if I have to have a bad forum reputation for that, then so be it.

I don't think I was or am in the middle of anything really. When Kevin's pc died last month, I only acted to help relay info for those that he didn't/doesn't have info for except for what was stored in his pc. If I remember correctly (it's on my work pc) the list I had for this situation contained 19 people with questions. I generated this list from pm's and a couple of posts I found. I relayed word for word the content of those posts/pms, and responded in kind word for word to those individuals. Once Kevin got his pc going, my role stopped. Though I am always happy to pass along information as Kevin and I 'usually' speak once or twice a week.

I too have paid money to Kevin for the 3rd cue he is building for me (I personally like the way they play for me), so I could conceivably be lumped in to the mix though I don't have a deadline or a promise date of completion. I believe I will get the cue I ordered, and I do believe everyone that has an order will have the order fulfilled. As I said before, I genuinely do not think he's out to screw anyone over.

Good night,
Craig

Thank you for posting this information I think it takes a stand-up guy to come here with all the recent information concerning Kevin selling cues at this tournament, and I applaud for it. Like I said above, none of this is your responsibility it is Kevin's, I truly believe that you were only trying to help other members of this forum, if that means anything.

I do have to disagree with you though on the following issue:

My first thought about giving his number is that it would be posted in an instant. I think we both know that is the likely case. If Kevin tells me it's OK to post or give his private information, I will most certainly do so without reservation. I wouldn't give my worst enemy's private information out in today's cyber age. I know most of your (Craig) information is public knowledge, but I wouldn't even give your information out without your consent. So if I have to have a bad forum reputation for that, then so be it.

The members who are trapped in this deal due to a lack of communication on Kevin's part and especially since the information about Kevin recently selling cues has come to light due have the right to contact him.
However, I also understand your position, and the fact some one trusted you to keep the information confidential. There may be an alternative though, maybe you could pick some one disinterested on the forum that is very popular, and have them contact Kevin. You see something must be done, and silents on Kevin's part is not going to solve anything.

I would not to want be in your position, because most likely I would do what you have done. I understand how torn you are by all this, whatever you decide to do I know it is because you feel that it is the right thing, and I can respect that.

Have a good night!!!!!

 

[BreakersOne]

man if this guy is telling the truth than this KV definitely isn't doing business on the up and up. too busy with orders to fill the orders but not to busy to make extra cues to sell at tournaments

Hey ask K-Town he was there and seen him too and knows it.

 

[ribdoner]

How many cue makers have listed tel#'s, fax#'s, email add, st. add., etc. in the 3 BBoC's and many other publications.

Does ANYONE know of any cue makers (whose primary source of income is making/selling cues) who don't want their contact info widely dispursed?

 

[ridewiththewind]

I am actually quite surprised that anyone would place an order, let alone give money to a cuemaker that did not provide FULL contact info. ANd this isn't just about what's currently happening with KV...but I have heard stories about other cuemakers as well that will not provide this information. I won't do it. The cuemakers I have dealt with directly have been more than forthcoming with this info.

Now with that said....I never felt the need to call any of those cuemakers to bother them while I was waiting for a cue...unless they requested I call, because they wished to discuss something with me. With this information does come responsibility...and a certain amount of common sense. Then again, the cuemakers I have dealt with were pretty good at keeping the lines of communication open. No, they did not give me daily, weekly, or even monthly blow-by-blow progress reports...but they did keep me updated with occasional reports. They cannot make cues if all their doing all day is answering emails and phone calls from anxious customers...but then again, an occasional heads-up would alleviate the anxiety of most.

Lisa

 

[manwon]

I am actually quite surprised that anyone would place an order, let alone give money to a cuemaker that did not provide FULL contact info. ANd this isn't just about what's currently happening with KV...but I have heard stories about other cuemakers as well that will not provide this information. I won't do it. The cuemakers I have dealt with directly have been more than forthcoming with this info.

Now with that said....I never felt the need to call any of those cuemakers to bother them while I was waiting for a cue...unless they requested I call, because they wished to discuss something with me. With this information does come responsibility...and a certain amount of common sense. Then again, the cuemakers I have dealt with were pretty good at keeping the lines of communication open. No, they did not give me daily, weekly, or even monthly blow-by-blow progress reports...but they did keep me updated with occasional reports. They cannot make cues if all their doing all day is answering emails and phone calls from anxious customers...but then again, an occasional heads-up would alleviate the anxiety of most.

Lisa

Lisa, I certainly agree with you, and I think all points you have brought up are valid. However, I suspect things have gone beyond a lack of communication. I have no idea how this gentleman can explain anything at this point, I mean there are members of this forum who have been waiting for almost a year, or possible more, I think there is around 10 members total. I am uncertain that anything short of a cue or a refund will solve anything at this point. Even then I would be surprised if this guy could ever sell anything else here, but who knows, only time will tell.

Have a good night!

 

[manwon]

How many cue makers have listed tel#'s, fax#'s, email add, st. add., etc. in the 3 BBoC's and many other publications.

Does ANYONE know of any cue makers (whose primary source of income is making/selling cues) who don't want their contact info widely dispursed?

I totally agree, my only question is, are these cue makers you are speaking of the choice of World Champions!!!!!!

 

[ribdoner]

I totally agree, my only question is, are these cue makers you are speaking of the choice of World Champions!!!!!!

NOPE, per something I read on the net they play with ..........

 

[Rocket354]

Lisa, I certainly agree with you, and I think all points you have brought up are valid. However, I suspect things have gone beyond a lack of communication. I have no idea how this gentleman can explain anything at this point, I mean there are members of this forum who have been waiting for almost a year, or possible more, I think there is around 10 members total. I am uncertain that anything short of a cue or a refund will solve anything at this point. Even then I would be surprised if this guy could ever sell anything else here, but who knows, only time will tell.

Have a good night!

I know for me only a full refund will make me happy. I no longer want his cue. I've gotten replacements I'm more than happy with.

As far as rep goes, I think it's taken a pretty big hit. But if he shows up tomorrow offering refunds to those who want it, and realistic delivery dates to those still wanting a cue, comes through on his promises this time, and makes a real effort to do better in the customer service front (including no longer requesting 100% upfront) I think he can get his AZB business back.

Heck, if he does that and his minions resume their incessant, loud Varney worship, within a year he could probably be back to demigod status.

 

[pharaoh68]

This is all very, VERY funny to me.

 

[Buckeyejim]

Funny?

This is all very, VERY funny to me.

Would you care to elaborate on that,I'm just curious.

 

[pharaoh68]

Would you care to elaborate on that,I'm just curious.

I have followed Kevin and his cues around here for some time. Kevin often made claims of being a terrific cuemaker with a superior product. Early on, he was becoming known less for his cues and more for his abrassive manner and his ego.

He and I often butted heads on this forum. I would often critique every cue he posted pictures of and question how he could charge the prices he did. Sometimes heated arguments ensued. Sometimes threats (or hints of threats) were issued.

Finally Kev said "Here! Try the cue and see what you think. Just give it an honest review. If you don't like it, I'll refund your money" and I did that very thing.

The cue was an OLD jump break. It weighed more than any cue I had ever held before and, quite frankly, the finish sucked. The jump joint didn't line up correctly and, quite frankly, it was a pretty bare-bones j/b. Anyone could have made it.

HOWEVER, it jumped pretty well and broke okay too. Was it the best j/b I had ever used? No. Not by a long shot. But was it the worst? Again, not by a long shot. It was, however, my opinion that for the prices Kevin charged, I would just as soon have called Andy Gilbert or Richard Chan at X-Breaker (who, at the time was still taking orders, I believe).

So at this point, I had changed my mind. It was no longer Kevin's product AND personality that turned me off. His business demeanor seemed to have improved and his product was ok at best. It did NOT reflect the price he asked for his cues but still, they weren't terrible.

The reason I say all of this is very funny is because I was one of the people who, all along, said that Kevin's cues were nothing extraordinary. They may not be crap, but he was not making cues on par with some of the elite. However, guys like cajunbarboxplayer and Eric Draven and a few others were quick to defend him as a TOP NOTCH cuemaker and a TOP NOTCH guy.

So as you can see, I find it very funny because everyone was so quick to attack me for making the honest and truthful statements that I had. Now some of those Varney loyalists appear to be jumping ship.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I have followed Kevin and his cues around here for some time. Kevin often made claims of being a terrific cuemaker with a superior product. Early on, he was becoming known less for his cues and more for his abrassive manner and his ego.

He and I often butted heads on this forum. I would often critique every cue he posted pictures of and question how he could charge the prices he did. Sometimes heated arguments ensued. Sometimes threats (or hints of threats) were issued.

Finally Kev said "Here! Try the cue and see what you think. JUst give it an honest review. If you don't, I'll refund your money" and I did that very thing.

The cue was an OLD jump break. It weighed more than any cue I had ever held before and, quite frankly, the finish sucked. The jump joint didn't line up correctly and, quite frankly, it was a pretty bare-bones j/b. Anyone could have made it.

HOWEVER, it jumped pretty well and broke okay too. Was it the best j/b I had ever used? No. Not by a long shot. But was it the worst? Again, not by a long shot. It was, however, my opinion that for the prices Kevin charged, I would just as soon have called Andy Gilbert or Richard Chan at X-Breaker (who, at the time was still taking orders, I believe).

So at this point, I had changed my mind. It was no longer Kevin's product AND personality that turned me off. He business demeanor seemed to have imporved and his product was ok. It did NOT reflect the price he asked for his cues but still, they weren't terrible.

The reason I say all of this is very funny is because I was one of the people who, all along, said that Kevin's cues were nothing extraordinary. They may not be crap, but he was not making cues on par with some of the elite. However, guys like cajunbarboxplayer and Eric Draven and a few others were quick to defend him as a TOP NOTCH cuemaker and a TOP NOTCH guy.

So as you can see, I find it very funny because everyone was so quick to attack me for making the honest and truthful statements that I had. Now some of those Varney loyalists appear to be jumping ship.

i remember all of those threads. you'd think he would have taken the time to send you a better made cue to review since just about everyone was waiting see if his quality would stop you talking about his cues like they were garbage.

there was one thread that really stuck in my mind where someone tried to decide to get a gilbert j/b or a varney and him and his army said that he was an equal or better cuemaker than andy gilbert.

i've ordered a cue from andy and he answered his phone every time and was really fun to talk to. cought him at a good time the cue was quoated in 2 months (basic jump break) and i got it in 2 months

 

[ridewiththewind]

I am still having a hard time with the asking of 100% up front, at the time of placing the order!! Not even the top tier makers do this! The fact that people would be willing to do this just leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.

Lisa

 

[pharaoh68]

I am still having a hard time with the asking of 100% up front, at the time of placing the order!! Not even the top tier makers do this! The fact that people would be willing to do this just leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.

Lisa

You're missing the point Lisa. Many businesses (ouotside of the pool trade) ask for you to pay up front for services rendered. Its not all that uncommon. For those businesses that do such, they leave it in the hands of the customer as to whether or not the customer will want to deal with these individuals.

What is questionable is Kevin's practice of not delivering his product, not contacting his customers, and still peddling his wares elsewhere.

Its not too uncommon for people to ask for payment up front. But most of the times those people either

A) deliver.
B) keep in contact with their customers to let themn know if there are any delays.
C) don't disappear.

Those are Kevin's faults here. Not asking for the the money up front. People had no reason to NOT believe him at this point because he had never (to anyone's knowledge) not delivered before.

 

[Dawgie]

I am still having a hard time with the asking of 100% up front, at the time of placing the order!! Not even the top tier makers do this! The fact that people would be willing to do this just leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.

Lisa

You are dead on my dear. When someone wants the full purchase price UP FRONT my radar goes up immediately. Something is wrong! This is especially true when ordering something sight unseen and over the net, thru the mail, etc. It this a fish market? Something doesn't smell right!

 

[Buckeyejim]

Funny?

I have followed Kevin and his cues around here for some time. Kevin often made claims of being a terrific cuemaker with a superior product. Early on, he was becoming known less for his cues and more for his abrassive manner and his ego.

He and I often butted heads on this forum. I would often critique every cue he posted pictures of and question how he could charge the prices he did. Sometimes heated arguments ensued. Sometimes threats (or hints of threats) were issued.

Finally Kev said "Here! Try the cue and see what you think. Just give it an honest review. If you don't like it, I'll refund your money" and I did that very thing.

The cue was an OLD jump break. It weighed more than any cue I had ever held before and, quite frankly, the finish sucked. The jump joint didn't line up correctly and, quite frankly, it was a pretty bare-bones j/b. Anyone could have made it.

HOWEVER, it jumped pretty well and broke okay too. Was it the best j/b I had ever used? No. Not by a long shot. But was it the worst? Again, not by a long shot. It was, however, my opinion that for the prices Kevin charged, I would just as soon have called Andy Gilbert or Richard Chan at X-Breaker (who, at the time was still taking orders, I believe).

So at this point, I had changed my mind. It was no longer Kevin's product AND personality that turned me off. His business demeanor seemed to have improved and his product was ok at best. It did NOT reflect the price he asked for his cues but still, they weren't terrible.

The reason I say all of this is very funny is because I was one of the people who, all along, said that Kevin's cues were nothing extraordinary. They may not be crap, but he was not making cues on par with some of the elite. However, guys like cajunbarboxplayer and Eric Draven and a few others were quick to defend him as a TOP NOTCH cuemaker and a TOP NOTCH guy.

So as you can see, I find it very funny because everyone was so quick to attack me for making the honest and truthful statements that I had. Now some of those Varney loyalists appear to be jumping ship.

I am proud to say I was not one of those who attacked you.I am not now.If you haven't guessed by now I am also a KV hostage,and so aggravated by not knowing how my money was spent, that there is nothing funny about this subject.I believe the term is oversensetized.Thanks for your input,Jim

 

[Hierovision]

IMO as a past customer the fact that he's not spending 12+ hours a day in his shop (per the posters saying he played in a tournament recently) making cues for the people who paid in full and are patiently waiting shows a lot. I would be willing to bet there is something evil going on here. Whether that is some kind of addiction or just accidental neglect it's completely irresponsible to leave customers waiting that long. I am definitely not going to be a repeat customer. I love AZB more than I love my J/B (which is a whole lot )

 

[leehayes]

You're missing the point Lisa. Many businesses (ouotside of the pool trade) ask for you to pay up front for services rendered. Its not all that uncommon. For those businesses that do such, they leave it in the hands of the customer as to whether or not the customer will want to deal with these individuals.

What is questionable is Kevin's practice of not delivering his product, not contacting his customers, and still peddling his wares elsewhere.

Its not too uncommon for people to ask for payment up front. But most of the times those people either

A) deliver.
B) keep in contact with their customers to let themn know if there are any delays.
C) don't disappear.

Those are Kevin's faults here. Not asking for the the money up front. People had no reason to NOT believe him at this point because he had never (to anyone's knowledge) not delivered before.

I'm not sure she was missing the point...just stating that she still couldn't believe he would ask for it all up front.
I know that the cue makers that I talked to, roughly 5 or 6 of them, all said they would only take a deposit and were even emphatic about it when I suggested paying it all up front.
Pharoah, I agree with you about the nature of the disposition. Odd that he would make threats to people on here...veiled or not.
I hope everything in his life is well and this is all a misunderstanding but the lack of response leaves you wondering.

 

[powerlineman80]

I am still having a hard time with the asking of 100% up front, at the time of placing the order!! Not even the top tier makers do this! The fact that people would be willing to do this just leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.

Lisa

I have to agree with you. I have no beef in this ordeal either and there is NO WAY I would pay 100% up front. The man making my cue has answered every pm and phone call and only asked for $200 up front (I'm spending $500 on this cue) and the rest when he sent pics of a finished product. I get updates every time on time and couldnt be happier. I'm also a 1st time custom buyer. He also told me he DIDNT want me to pay in full until he was for sure finished. That also made me feel good that I went with the right guy, not to mention seeing his work and hearing from his buyers. I've paid $300 and will pay the rest when the works done like he asked.

He has been dead on with everything he has said. He calls me if there are ANY questions on the cue or delays. I'm sure this is all other people ask of Kevin Varney. I'm sure most or all wouldnt mind the delay if the man was in the hospital or family was, or if other acts of God happend but from the sounds of it he took everyone to the bank and is playing in tournaments and still selling cues that were more than likely promised to others. I hope people get their justice somehow.