Kicking System - Maximum English

[Colin Colenso]

Hey guys,
It's been a while since I started a technical thread (a voice inside my head says that may be considered a good thing)

Anyway, I figured, I may as well try to do these things properly, so I'm going to catalogue a bunch of technical / instructional articles in a section on my blog, see link below.

Anyway, here's the first I have added here

These shots are played with near maximum running english, at speed hard enough to go just a couple of feet past the destination

I'd like to know how these lines compare to other tables.

Also, interested if any of you have tried kicking systems which utilize maximum english before?

 

[Snapshot9]

First ....

Your angles of projection coming from downtable to uptable (first of the 3 rail banks) is not correct. The outgoing angle off the first rail is too much per the incoming angle for running english.

Second, when going around the table with numbers (diamonds), for some reason, i always tend to think in terms of 'Golf' on a Snooker Table instead
of the way you numbered.

 

[Donovan]

He said MAXIMUM running English. Those are about how and where I shoot them from.

 

[Flex]

He said MAXIMUM running English. Those are about how and where I shoot them from.

Often, maximum english is the most consistent and repeatable kind.

However, adjustments may be necessary depending on table conditions.

Flex

 

[Colin Colenso]

Your angles of projection coming from downtable to uptable (first of the 3 rail banks) is not correct. The outgoing angle off the first rail is too much per the incoming angle for running english.

Second, when going around the table with numbers (diamonds), for some reason, i always tend to think in terms of 'Golf' on a Snooker Table instead
of the way you numbered.

As Donovan reminded, it's maximum running english. I tested these contact points in detail on my table.

As for numbering diamonds, I don't think there's a best way. Sometimes we need to convert them for various systems for calculation purposes.

I put numbers around my own table same as in the diagram, just to help the systems stick into my memory.

 

[CaptainJR]

Often, maximum english is the most consistent and repeatable kind.

However, adjustments may be necessary depending on table conditions.

Flex

My impression is that maximum reverse english with a very firm hit is very repeatable and has less to do with conditions.

 

[Flex]

My impression is that maximum reverse english with a very firm hit is very repeatable and has less to do with conditions.

I agree it is very repeatable on a specific table. However it will vary from table to table. I test every table I play on first, if I'm able to, before playing. It's good to know if Jimmy Reid's true 3 rail system is working correctly, and as it's a system that uses maximum english for every shot. If the table plays long or short, it's best to know that before playing.

Flex

 

[CaptainJR]

I agree it is very repeatable on a specific table. However it will vary from table to table. I test every table I play on first, if I'm able to, before playing. It's good to know if Jimmy Reid's true 3 rail system is working correctly, and as it's a system that uses maximum english for every shot. If the table plays long or short, it's best to know that before playing.

Flex

What I was saying was the max reverse with speed is more repeatable than running, going from table to table.

 

[Flex]

What I was saying was the max reverse with speed is more repeatable than running, going from table to table.

Gotcha. I'll have to try that out. Thanks for the idea.

Flex

 

[Colin Colenso]

My impression is that maximum reverse english with a very firm hit is very repeatable and has less to do with conditions.

Yes, there are certainly some shots where maximum reverse (we call it check, also head it called hold-up) can be used quite predictably. Though on a limited range of multi-rail shots I feel.

I will be posting some maximum reverse charts for people to compare in coming days.

I'd like to get some ideas of table variations for different systems.

My table is pretty slow, thick nap cloth, so the cushions aren't highly responsive to spin. So a quick table with grippy cushions and different rubbers could play quite differently.

Ideally I'd like to be able to go to any new table, play a couple of test shots and be able to quickly convert my systems. Feedback would help. I'll publish any findings so all can benefit if they wish to study and use the systems.

 

[Steve Lipsky]

Your angles of projection coming from downtable to uptable (first of the 3 rail banks) is not correct. The outgoing angle off the first rail is too much per the incoming angle for running english.

Snapshot, I agreed with you until I realized (I think) that the cueball is starting on the RIGHT side of the table, and being made to scratch in the pocket on the upper left.

Right?

- Steve

 

[jsp]

Hey calc. I took a peak at your blog, and it said this is a two-rail kick system, not a one-rail system, correct? So I'm assuming the bold lines are the initial paths of the CB? Again, i'm kinda slow.

EDIT: Nevermind, i think i get it now. Thanks for the post Calc. Keep those technical threads coming!

 

[Colin Colenso]

Hey calc. I took a peak at your blog, and it said this is a two-rail kick system, not a one-rail system, correct? So I'm assuming the bold lines are the initial paths of the CB? Again, i'm kinda slow.

EDIT: Nevermind, i think i get it now. Thanks for the post Calc. Keep those technical threads coming!

Cheers jsp,

To clarify a little:
The black lines are the initial aiming lines from rail diamond positions (bottom left to top right) 1,2,3,4,5,2. These provide a good spread of angles of possible approach.

The corresponding aiming points on the right side short rail are approximately:
1 = 0.2
2 = 0.7
3 = 1.2
4 = 1.7
5 = 2.4
2 = 3.1

You can remember this by beginning at 0.2 (The jaw- actually just out of range of playable from no.1 diamond unless I really rip the CB and hit at near 0.3 to avoid the jaw). Then add 0.5 for each diamond, and then 0.7 increments for the last two diamond lines.

By memorizing these 6 lines you can pretty easily make an adjustment for any shot that falls into range in this system.

eg. If you're playing to hit an OB at diamond 3 on the left short rail from a line that intersects with diamond 6 on the top long rail, you could quickly work out that diamond 6 top, to corner pocket requires an aim of about 2.2. Now shift aim left 0.8 of a diamond to 3.0 and you'll have a path to the OB at left short rail diamond 3.

If you were starting at diamond 2 on the left short rail and wanted to hit diamond 3 on the same rail, the aim point for the pocket is 0.7, so shift this left 0.8 of a diamond to 1.5 and this line should lead you to diamond 3.

If you play with it a bit, you'll start to work out the appropriate adjustments, but can just use the initial lines & points combinations as a starting point.

For a drill, just put the CB and OB in random places and keep trying to hit the OB this way off 2 rails. Play from where you finish. Work out the line for each shot. Soon enough you'll memorize the system and you'll rarely miss your target ball going two rails when it falls into the domain of this shot.

 

[Black-Balled]

What in the HELL ar you people talking about

 

[cigardave]

I've learned the simple 2-rail kick system that Kid D teaches in his DVD set.

It works quite well... I'd say my success rate is better than 80% . Some hits even surprise me.

The only modification that I apply is to hit center ball and just a hair high... and not the running english that Danny said to use in the DVD.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I've learned the simple 2-rail kick system that Kid D teaches in his DVD set.

It works quite well... I'd say my success rate is better than 80% . Some hits even surprise me.

The only modification that I apply is to hit center ball and just a hair high... and not the running english that Danny said to use in the DVD.

I also think natural roll 2-rail systems work very well at moderate speeds.

I'll do a chart on the equivalent plain ball roll angles soon. It's good to have as many systems up your sleeve as possible to:

1. Cover as many table areas as possible.
2. Have as many escape options as possible.
3. Be able to estimate / predict intermediate lines of excape such as 1-tip or 2-tips.

No doubt all this can be a big headache. For some, a few remembered points here and there will come in handy, but they'll never try to remember a ton of systems and aiming points and adjustments.

But if someone wants to be a pro, it's worth spending a few months getting useful systems and ajustments memorized.

 

[Colin Colenso]

What in the HELL ar you people talking about

It's a secret, only for the eyes and ears of the initiates to interpret the code.

Stage 1 of the initiation is to run 10 miles. Off you go!

 

[RSB-Refugee]

What I was saying was the max reverse with speed is more repeatable than running, going from table to table.

I agree. In my diagram, line "A" not only has a better chace of hitting the one, but also a better chance of pocketing it. IMO

START(
%Ar9V1%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pa8W1%Qf1P0%R`5N1%Wn1D0%Xb3V4
%Yr8T1%Zn5C6%[c0D7%\a7V2%]r4T1%^c1C7
)END

Tracy

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Anyway, I figured, I may as well try to do these things properly, ..

Have you done your homework? That is, have you looked into what other people have written about these systems? Some authors have spent years studying them.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Have you done your homework? That is, have you looked into what other people have written about these systems? Some authors have spent years studying them.

Hi Bob,
When I said 'do it properly' it was a lazy use of words. I just meant I was going to diagram, categorize and collect the information / diagrams in a way that could be searched / retrieved easily for reference....rather than smply sink into oblivion down a past threads memory hole.

My knowledge on pre-existing work is not immense, so I'm re-designing the wheel to some degree. There are many ways one can go about referencing and formulating systems...and mine are a work in progress.

I would appreciate if you'd recommend what you think are some of the best works available on such systems.

Colin