Kim vs. Morro

I don't think it's happening

I played at the Mid West Open this weekend in Tulsa, OK. There was alot of talk going around about that. I was close to James several times and several people asked him if they were going to play. He said "If Shane shows up, we'll play". I don't think Shane ever came to Oklahoma. BTW you should see the bar table that James wanted to play on. It's eaisly a triple or if it's possible a quadrupled shimmed pockets. There was an oustanding young player named Josh Degler that played Jam up. The funny thing is he drank all day and night long, and still played high caliber pool. He hit many many articulate one pocket shots stumbling drunk. He got drunk and woofed at James but he later backed down.
 
clint3612 said:
I played at the Mid West Open this weekend in Tulsa, OK. There was alot of talk going around about that. I was close to James several times and several people asked him if they were going to play. He said "If Shane shows up, we'll play". I don't think Shane ever came to Oklahoma. BTW you should see the bar table that James wanted to play on. It's eaisly a triple or if it's possible a quadrupled shimmed pockets. There was an oustanding young player named Josh Degler that played Jam up. The funny thing is he drank all day and night long, and still played high caliber pool. He hit many many articulate one pocket shots stumbling drunk. He got drunk and woofed at James but he later backed down.
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That's a good tourney. How'd you do? Did you talk to Buddy?
 
Glad to see Kim's game is back and he's back in action. He has always been one of my favorite players to watch (I like the aggressive stroke) and always has such beautifully manicured nails:) .
 
jrhendy said:
but the list of players who couldn't beat the game is a who's/who of pool players. John Henderson
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John, another great post. That last line says it all about that table. Before I left CA in the early 90's I won a small 6 handed golf game on her (like $450 or so). I never hit another ball on that table, and never will. :)
 
poolcuemaster said:
Hey Jay give us a east coasters a short explanation about liability and how many points are available please
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Well it isn't really liability with only two players but, basically, they're playing snooker - most likely with only 3 red balls as that's how they usually play at Hard Times. The phrase "liability", from the way I understand it, refers to ring game play because you're only "liable" for the person following you. Meaning, you only pay for the points that you sell out. You can actually end up paying the guy that you follow in the case where you make a foul. In that case, you pay the guy that you follow for however many points the foul was worth.
 
belmicah said:
That's a good tourney. How'd you do? Did you talk to Buddy?
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No, i did terrible. I had a real hard time with the new cloth and it was the first time i played on diamond bar tables. I ended up getting double dipped. The second player that beat me, i beat him in OKC several weeks ago for the cash. Thats the way it goes. Yes, i talked to buddy and even sprung for a paid lesson. he has one heck of a stroke.
 
jay helfert said:
Same size they play on in Great Britain. Only with much tighter pockets. They must be seen to be believed.
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on the corner pockets the ball almost rubs on bith sides, there is 1mm wider pochert than the balls, if you can do it jumping the cushions and then the balls go in earier but thats hard to do, like I said 50 pt run is amazing, Kim just ran 22 and how strong is he?

ive made 4 balls in a row on that table a few times never 5 that i can remember. when I was on top of my game and most were in the sides, 2 and 3 rail shots into the side is the best move on that table becaise if you can hold the rock and miss wide the other player has a 10-20% chance of making a ball-and thats guys like kim and morro, a strong B player or an A player might have a 5% chance if you miss it wide and hold the rock, you have to know how to play on that table there isnt another one like it.
 
Jimmy M. said:
Well it isn't really liability with only two players but, basically, they're playing snooker - most likely with only 3 red balls as that's how they usually play at Hard Times. The phrase "liability", from the way I understand it, refers to ring game play because you're only "liable" for the person following you. Meaning, you only pay for the points that you sell out. You can actually end up paying the guy that you follow in the case where you make a foul. In that case, you pay the guy that you follow for however many points the foul was worth.
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Sorry Jimmy, that's the term Kim used to describe the game. Like you, I call it very short rack snooker.
 
Cuetech. The table was reworked a few years ago. Parica can get action, and he's local. I might give you ball in hand shooting just the 7 on the spot! Of course the standard house balls must be used.

Martin


cuetechasaurus said:
Yes, someone had it right about Liability. You set up the balls like snooker, and most people play it short-rack with the red balls (cherries). Instead of 15 cherries, most people play with 5 or 6 cherries IIRC (it's been a few years since I've played). You have to make a cherry, then pot a numbered ball, until all the cherries are gone, just like snooker. Again, in the 'D' you set it up 3-4-2, 5ball in the middle of the table, the pink 6 on the spot and the black 7 on the spot below that. On that table at hard times, the corner pockets will BARELY fit a snooker ball. The pockets are much, much, much tighter than a regular snooker table. They are rounded a bit more, so many shots that can be potted on a regular English snooker table, can't be pocketed on this one. Balls on the rail, or up to a foot off the rail can't be pocketed, even if you roll them super soft. That's the way the table is, and it's lightning fast.

About scoring, yes the 3ball is worth 3 points, the 4ball is 4 points, and so on. Each cherry is 1 point. A foul is -4 points, unless you foul and hit a numbered ball, then the foul becomes negative whatever numbered ball you hit (i.e. if you are on the 2ball and you hit the 7ball first, that's -7 points instead of 4). So if you hook the person following you, and they foul, you get paid from them. If the person that shot after you sold out to the next person, he would have to pay that person too. It can be a very brutal game.

I used to play $1-$2 per point, and you can lose $100 within 30 minutes very easily. I used to think playing for $5 or $10 per point was HUGE, but $50 per point, that is unreal! You could win thousands in a half hour, depending on how good you play, of course.

One more thing, to the poster that said he would wager that someone couldn't run out the 2-7 ball with ball in hand on that particular table at Hard Times- I have seen Parica in a $10 per point liability game on that table, and he ran cherry-ball a few times and finished with running out the 2-7. I watched for a couple of hours and he did it twice. This was a few years ago. Parica was firing balls in like it was 9ball! SICK!
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Neither one babied the balls. Kim seemed to play better safes the 2nd day. Unfortunately I could only watch for a couple of hours. I've never seen anyone pocket balls better on Big Bertha than the few times I watched Parica. 100 miles an hour.

Too bad Hawaiian Jimmy got 86'd. Best kept 1 Pocket secret on the left coast. He is having a ball in Orange County.
 
charlieb said:
I've never seen anyone pocket balls better on Big Bertha than the few times I watched Parica. 100 miles an hour.
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I took a piece staking Jose in a $50/point game back in the early/mid '90's some time. We won $11,400, if I remember correctly. Maybe, at only 35, I'm showing signs of aging or something but I can't remember who all was in the game.
 
jay helfert said:
The line is......Al don't play!
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Thanks that was just the answere i was looking for....:) I know he has way the wost of it but there awalys a money line.
 
Jose & Big Bertha

Jimmy M. said:
I took a piece staking Jose in a $50/point game back in the early/mid '90's some time. We won $11,400, if I remember correctly. Maybe, at only 35, I'm showing signs of aging or something but I can't remember who all was in the game.
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I can remember because I was in it. Kim was the big loser and Martin (worked with the Camel Tour) was in with him. Kim drew in front of Jose several racks in a row and refused to play safe. Jose got so many shots he got in dead stroke and robbed the game. The other players in and out of the game were Morro, Francisco, Ernesto (maybe), Hutch, Keith, Little Al and myself. Other players were in and out whenever someone dropped out. When I played in those games for $50 a point I wouldn't go for a green light. I did quite well over the years in that game playing safety first and only going for higher percentage shots. A little later the same week we played again and Jose drew behind me three or four times in a row. If I couldn't play an easy safety I took a $200 scratch because I was scared to death of him running balls. He got mad and quit the last time he drew behind me because he thought I was not playing the game right. Kim spoiled him some in the previous match. I explained to him that for $50 a point I thought I could play any way I wanted, and we played again a few times, but Jose usually got the cash and I never changed my style when he drew behind me. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, next to Denny Searcy years ago, Jose was the daddy on Big Bertha. John Henderson
 
jrhendy said:
I can remember because I was in it. Kim was the big loser and Martin (worked with the Camel Tour) was in with him. Kim drew in front of Jose several racks in a row and refused to play safe. Jose got so many shots he got in dead stroke and robbed the game. The other players in and out of the game were Morro, Francisco, Ernesto (maybe), Hutch, Keith, Little Al and myself. Other players were in and out whenever someone dropped out. When I played in those games for $50 a point I wouldn't go for a green light. I did quite well over the years in that game playing safety first and only going for higher percentage shots. A little later the same week we played again and Jose drew behind me three or four times in a row. If I couldn't play an easy safety I took a $200 scratch because I was scared to death of him running balls. He got mad and quit the last time he drew behind me because he thought I was not playing the game right. Kim spoiled him some in the previous match. I explained to him that for $50 a point I thought I could play any way I wanted, and we played again a few times, but Jose usually got the cash and I never changed my style when he drew behind me. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, next to Denny Searcy years ago, Jose was the daddy on Big Bertha. John Henderson
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You are forgetting one guy who also robbed the game TWICE. I remember when Cliff came down from Canada. It was ten years before he became World Champ, but man he could drill those balls and handled the cue ball just like Denny. In fact, they were running together.

I remember seeing them both get out of Denny's Jag XKE in front of The Billiard Palace. Cliff banked better on that table than anyone I ever saw play on it. He nailed almost every side pocket bank. This was Pay Ball then, not Liability.
 
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jrhendy said:
I can remember because I was in it. Kim was the big loser and Martin (worked with the Camel Tour) was in with him. Kim drew in front of Jose several racks in a row and refused to play safe. Jose got so many shots he got in dead stroke and robbed the game. The other players in and out of the game were Morro, Francisco, Ernesto (maybe), Hutch, Keith, Little Al and myself. Other players were in and out whenever someone dropped out. When I played in those games for $50 a point I wouldn't go for a green light. I did quite well over the years in that game playing safety first and only going for higher percentage shots. A little later the same week we played again and Jose drew behind me three or four times in a row. If I couldn't play an easy safety I took a $200 scratch because I was scared to death of him running balls. He got mad and quit the last time he drew behind me because he thought I was not playing the game right. Kim spoiled him some in the previous match. I explained to him that for $50 a point I thought I could play any way I wanted, and we played again a few times, but Jose usually got the cash and I never changed my style when he drew behind me. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, next to Denny Searcy years ago, Jose was the daddy on Big Bertha. John Henderson
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Speaking of Hutch, what ever happened to him? I heard, years ago, that he had moved to Vegas but I haven't seen nor heard of him after he left California. On a side note, I briefly ran into Keith's brother Mark in Vegas like a year or two ago. Mark was on that snooker table quite a bit during the 90's also, but I don't remember him being in the $50 a point games.
 
another testament to Cliff's greatness

not only was he the only world champion not from the British Isles, but he never spent anywhere close to the amount of time residing in the UK one would think neccessary to become world champ
 
jay helfert said:
You are forgetting one guy who also robbed the game TWICE. I remember when Cliff came down from Canada. It was ten years before he became World Champ, but man he could drill those balls and handled the cue ball just like Denny. In fact, they were running together.

I remember seeing them both get out of Denny's Jag XKE in front of The Billiard Palace. Cliff banked better on that table than anyone I ever saw play on it. He nailed almost every side pocket bank. This was Pay Ball then, not Liability.
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You're talking Cliff Thorburn {sp?} from Canada?
 
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