Kim vs. Morro

[Marvel]

And yes, it's a 6x12 snooker table. With pockets tighter than a frog's ass and cloth like ice. It's arguably a gaffe table. You've got to hit a ball on it to believe it.

Are the cushions/pockets modified for pool balls or is it authentic snooker table with snooker cushions and round 'points' in the pockets?

Sounds interesting, but to play 50$ a point, is not so high anymore with that table, compared to 9ft Brunswick I mean..


Ps. Jay, did they play 9-ball and for how many hours? Just curious...

 

[jay helfert]

Jay, which Shane? McMinn?

Van Boening

 

[jay helfert]

I too am happy for Kim. He has been a very consistent player over the years. I'm glad he's still able to enjoy and compete in the thing he loves so much.
BTW Jay, does Kim work in a poolroom or have ownership in one back in Modesto?
Thanks.

He has owned a piece of one in Modesto for nearly 15 years, but it's closing soon.

 

[jay helfert]

Kim D. came down three days ago to LA and stayed at my house. He had plans to play Morro some Liability at Hard Times. They played two days ago and Morro took him for a big number at $40 a point. This is high stakes action.

They played again yesterday and Kim got Morro for an even bigger number (much bigger) at $50 a point. It's all over now and Kim returned home, a little fatter in back. I give Kim a lot of credit after all he's been through, to come down here and play Morro for big bucks on the super tight 6x12 at Hard Times.

I know Shane has been in action against James Walden

Curious as to how and what they are playing??? James is very tough to beat in OKC.

Either 9-Ball or Ten Ball I'm sure. I"M WRONG! AGAIN! It was supposed to be Eight Ball on a small table.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

He has owned a piece of one in Modesto for nearly 15 years, but it's closing soon.

Thanks Jay.

By the way...You are closing in on 3,000 posts!!! You are much appreciated here.

 

[jay helfert]

Hey Jay give us a east coasters a short explanation about liability and how many points are available please

It's a little different when played head up.

It's like regular Snooker with only three red balls. And every ball counts for points, with the red ball being one point. So if you run out the last three balls (5,6,7), you have made 18 points or $900 at $50 a point. The table they play on is super tight and you can only make a ball in the corners from up close. The side pockets are slightly bigger, so more balls are shot at them.

The high run of the two days was Kim's 22.

 

[jay helfert]

6x12? is this a snooker table?

Same size they play on in Great Britain. Only with much tighter pockets. They must be seen to be believed.

 

[jay helfert]

I am i very impressed after trying just to drive 12 miles home with a patch over one eye after catching a piece of steel in right eye and having rust ring ground out of cornea. I almost wrecked ten times or more on the same roads I drove on every day and my point is Kim can still play great pool with one eye without the depth preception that he had taking away from the golf ball accident.-- I can't imagine the difference--Leonard

It's taken him several years to become competitive again. I hope your eye heals okay. Sounds like a scary accident.

 

[jay helfert]

I was told that this match up never happened as of yesterday evening. Have you heard differently & when did you hear about it happening?

Thanks, Dave

I was told it would be an ahead set (15?) of 8-ball on a bar table for many jellybeans.

You're right. I forgot Shane said it was Eight Ball on a bar box. I'm surprised it didn't come off. I wonder why.

 

[Gerry]

One more thing, to the poster that said he would wager that someone couldn't run out the 2-7 ball with ball in hand on that particular table at Hard Times- I have seen Parica in a $10 per point liability game on that table, and he ran cherry-ball a few times and finished with running out the 2-7. I watched for a couple of hours and he did it twice. This was a few years ago. Parica was firing balls in like it was 9ball! SICK!

I used to play per point snooker on a tite traditional 6x12, nothing like $50 a point but enough to keep your interest. At first I was trying to ease them in the pocket but you had to be perfect to make em. Then I saw a real snooker player firing the balls in and I found out at higher speeds the pockets take the balls instead of puking them out at you.....

Gerry

 

[Black-Balled]

Post deleted. Somehow I confused Shane and Shannon. Probably time to go to bed, huh?

NIce try, were not falling for that again !

 

[Boro Nut]

I used to play per point snooker on a tite traditional 6x12, nothing like $50 a point but enough to keep your interest. At first I was trying to ease them in the pocket but you had to be perfect to make em. Then I saw a real snooker player firing the balls in and I found out at higher speeds the pockets take the balls instead of puking them out at you.....

Gerry

Quite the reverse is true. A slow ball played a bit too wide gives gravity more of a chance to drop it over the curved fall of the pocket than one hit at a speed that would fly right over an open manhole. That's why you need to play into the middle pockets so delicately from harsh angles. You try to roll it very slowly past the edge of the fall and let gravity take over. There is no shelf as such, like on a pool table. You probably just cue straighter when you play a crisp shot.

A correctly set up snooker table should take a ball into the corner at any speed from any angle as long as you are accurate. Don't even think about whispering the near knuckle on the way in on a tight one though.

Boro Nut

 

[Black-Balled]

Playing 9ball on a gold crown, Kim has always been the favorite...for ANYONE to beat Morro, Francisco, Ernesto or any other regular champion at HardTimes on THAT table is amazing...

I'd imagine that table is a small equalizer!

 

[Cornerman]

I'm sure Jay will explain this better, but back in the day, it was played that you were "liable" for any ball you sold out. For example, if the guy following you were to run three balls, you'd be liable for 3 points at $50 a point is $150. They usually played 6ball rotation. I forget how scratches are scored. All I remember is that 6x12 at HardTimes should go into the Hall of Fame. It's the most trecherous table I've ever hit a ball on.

For Kim to beat someone like Morro on that table is just amazing.

I think Liability is paid by the point. So, if you run three balls in a row, it would depend on which balls are pocketed. So, it it's the 2, 3, and 4, that's 9 points.

Playing Off the Rail explains the game pretty well.

Fred

 

[LAMas]

I'd imagine that table is a small equalizer!

I saw King Kong beat Efren once.

 

[jrhendy]

Liability on Big Bertha

I played on that monster since Verne Peterson rebuilt it for golf in the 60's at the Billiard Palace. I haven't played on it since I came to No. Califorinia in the 90's, but have logged more hours on that table than any other in 50+ years of playing pool. Kim has played on the table many times for over 25 years and Morro and Kim have played for as much as $100 per point. You can win or lose a thousand for $5 a point, so that can give some idea of the kind of gamble $50 a point is. Kim used to come down and play in the game in his early 20's. We used to play mostly ring games for $5 a point. Denny Searcy was around for a while then and could drink a bottle of whiskey, stall and still beat the game. Next to Searcy, Jose Parica was the best on the table over the many years I played on it. Since you only pay for balls made on you or scratches & missed snookers you make yourself, players like me who knew the table could play with champions. Grady has played in the game many times over the years and would have to be up there with the best players. Our games were usually 5 or 6 handed (never over 6) and lasted up to 30 hours. Morro usually spearheaded the action in the 80's & 90's and I guess he still does. He made a nice score playing cards one time and we played for $50 a point over 100 hours in a weeks time. Kim was a huge winner in that game and they even flew a Canadien in who played in the last session. His stake horse told me they won a few thousand and when the horse left the player stayed around for a few days. Hawaiian Jimmy busted him playing one pocket and won his English Snooker cue. Keith went through half a dozen stake horses firing at all the money in the game. We finally made him put $500 on the light when he got in because he always went empty (it was a different story when they tried to play pay ball with him) and whoever ran the last few balls on him didn't get all their money. Lots of good memories and bad on that table, but there was always action. I have gone on long enough, but it is nice to hear it is still going on. John Henderson

 

[jay helfert]

I think Liability is paid by the point. So, if you run three balls in a row, it would depend on which balls are pocketed. So, it it's the 2, 3, and 4, that's 9 points.

Playing Off the Rail explains the game pretty well.

Fred

This is correct.

 

[jay helfert]

I played on that monster since Verne Peterson rebuilt it for golf in the 60's at the Billiard Palace. I haven't played on it since I came to No. Califorinia in the 90's, but have logged more hours on that table than any other in 50+ years of playing pool. Kim has played on the table many times for over 25 years and Morro and Kim have played for as much as $100 per point. You can win or lose a thousand for $5 a point, so that can give some idea of the kind of gamble $50 a point is. Kim used to come down and play in the game in his early 20's. We used to play mostly ring games for $5 a point. Denny Searcy was around for a while then and could drink a bottle of whiskey, stall and still beat the game. Next to Searcy, Jose Parica was the best on the table over the many years I played on it. Since you only pay for balls made on you or scratches & missed snookers you make yourself, players like me who knew the table could play with champions. Grady has played in the game many times over the years and would have to be up there with the best players. Our games were usually 5 or 6 handed (never over 6) and lasted up to 30 hours. Morro usually spearheaded the action in the 80's & 90's and I guess he still does. He made a nice score playing cards one time and we played for $50 a point over 100 hours in a weeks time. Kim was a huge winner in that game and they even flew a Canadien in who played in the last session. His stake horse told me they won a few thousand and when the horse left the player stayed around for a few days. Hawaiian Jimmy busted him playing one pocket and won his English Snooker cue. Keith went through half a dozen stake horses firing at all the money in the game. We finally made him put $500 on the light when he got in because he always went empty (it was a different story when they tried to play pay ball with him) and whoever ran the last few balls on him didn't get all their money. Lots of good memories and bad on that table, but there was always action. I have gone on long enough, but it is nice to hear it is still going on. John Henderson

John that table will probably still be here long after you and I are gone. If only it could talk, what a story it would tell. Hummmm.

"Had a rough day yesteday with all the bangers pounding on my rails, and sitting on my rubber. I was so glad when they went home. I sure do miss Denny. He was so nice to me. Always very gentle with my rails and caressing my pockets. I miss him, and Jose and Morro and Kim. and where is that kid Keith who used to love me so much."

"Boy, last night and the night before were great. Kim and Morro played on me for hours, and it felt so good. Balls rolling gently all over my thin felt, and my pockets were accepting all the well placed shots. Finally someone who knows how to treat me. With love and respect. I look forward to days like this. They are so few and far between now."

 

[jrhendy]

Efren & King Kong

I saw King Kong beat Efren once.

Efren was around when the big games were going on in the early 90's and would not play in them. He would play in some of the cheaper games and I know he started playing more after I left, but you had to pay your dues on that table and get in some playing time. It was and probably still is the most treacherous table in the country. Rafael Martinez was smart enough to stay out of the big games until he logged in many hours in the smaller games. There were three of us working stiffs ( Jimmy Van, Jim Schermerhorn (Tweedy) and myself) that had played on the table for 20 years before Hard Times in Bellflower, and we busted many champions who couldn't stay out of the game because of the action. One weekend when there was a big 9 ball tournament, Jeff Carter, Danny Diliberto and Okamura from Japan jumped in a $10 or $20 a point game and fattened all three of us up. I could list a dozen or two world beaters who fired at the game and went off over the years. Some of the road players who could and did master the table were Jimmy Reid, Grady, New York Blackie, Denny Searcy, Little Al Romero and a few others, but the list of players who couldn't beat the game is a who's/who of pool players. John Henderson

 

[Handsumm]

If anyone finds out about James Walden matching up with SVB, let me know. I will be flying in next Friday, so if noone finds out, I will. I hope they play for more than a couple days, as Shane will not stand a chance if he can't get acclimated to his surroundings. James is near impossible to beat in Oklahoma. Take him out of his zone and he is a little more vulnerable. I would pay to see these two match up, as I am also now kind of a fan of Shane as well.