Ko vs Shane--Natural Progression of the Sport: The Pool Coach

One thing touched on but not really mentioned as a factor. In the communist/socialist countries, top players are provided a coach and a salary paid by the state.

That said, I'd hate to see that happen in the USA. But I could see player sponsors stepping up in that regard...if pool became a popular enough sport to gain a wide audience like it does in other countries.

That's a huge if....I doubt it'll ever happen.
 
Great thread on the mental side of the game and how coaching can help evolve pool. I am always trying to find techniques and tips that work in all sports to help me "prove" the concept. Slowing down breathing and relaxing the body is something I have heard often. It helps me zone in. Sometimes with my jaw relaxed, it feels like my face is just hanging there =]

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Johan is an amazing coach, as exampled by his Mosconis.

it's the job of the coach to also watch the other player(s) and their "game", while you do what you're trained for. he can see their weakness & strongsuits, as well as their "tells", and it's his job to advise you accordingly. it's also his place to instill pure confidence.

an elementary example would be: the 3rd base coach waving you into home as you approach 2nd. a better one would be: the boxer's coach noticing the opponent's rhythm in punches, so that you know your next opening.
 
Ko vs Shane Finals
Natural Progression of the Sport: The Traveling Pro Pool Coach


Part 1:


“When I was in 6th grade in elementary school I started to play pool in my father's pool club. Since I first played pool, my father has always been my coach,” said Ko.

“He always accompanies me on my travels. I’ve learnt a lot from him, not only pool skill, but also the manner of being polite.” In common with many other top-class Taiwanese shooters, practice is a serious business with long hours put in using often repetitious drills until the confidence of solid technique is built.


Source: http://blog.xuite.net/stradivarius/blog/17090833-Just+who+is+Ko+Pin-yi+?

This is not a critique of Shane or Ko, but more of an observation and deeper analysis into the finals match from yesterday.

Over the last 10 years, I’ve kept notice of a trend, or more so, a common fabric between many young champion players from Asia and Europe in the sport of pocket billiards.

In the formative years in Europe and most of Asia, a young pool player will take up with a coach and begin instruction. Thorsten Hohmann discussed this in the 2008 14.1 Invitational player-review DVD of his 149 ball run. Thorsten discussed with Danny Di LiBerto that he still has the same coach today as the guy who first opened up the door to the local billiard club to let him inside. Thorsten's work on the PAT training regiment with German coaches Ralph Eckert and Andreas Huber is well documented.

In the summer of 2007, at the Turning Stone classic, I was able to sit with Michael Neumann, the trainer and coach of Jasmine Ouschan and discuss his role in her career development. I watched as he sat in the stands and took notes, as well as photographs on the tough spots in matches and what little changes she could make. At one point in the tournament, Jasmine was frustrated with her 9-ball break not producing results, and Neumann was table side with instruction on changing it up. Between matches, he was even there with electrolyte packs for her, like holding out the cup of water for the marathon runner as they pass mile marker 15.

In the words of Mike Neumann:

Now, after working very intensively for more than 15 years with Jasmin Ouschan my fields of duty have broadened. Rather than being a single trainer I am currently responsible for the management of her career and for her coaching, as her training is now largely complete

Meanwhile, Jasmin is a very successful professional sports athlete and we are travelling more than 200 days per year worldwide together to be a part of events and tournaments.


Source: http://www.billiardsportacademy.com/michael-neumann/#go_page_now

Niels Feijen’s career was greatly effected by the coaching of Johan Ruijsink – the non-playing captain and coach of Europe’s Mosconi Cup Team.

Niels wrote in his website biography:

The gambling life took it's toll again once when I came back home. I got depressed again and had no motivation in Holland. I started with personal trainings to talk about what was bothering me and this really helped me. I started to relax more in any location and I became a better tournament player.

Johan Ruysink also opened up a poolroom in a city near by called Leidschendam and he did a lot for me by sponsoring me there!!


Source: http://www.nielsfeijen.nl/content.php?id=2

Ralf Souquet would refer to Johan as “The best coach ever”.

American player and Master Instructor Bert Kinister, who also worked with Niels in America, wrote about Johan:

Finally on the road to Johan’s home, night club and pool room in The Hague, we coasted in under cover of darkness with no brakes, no gas, no sleep and there they were waiting—I do not know for how long—eight to 12 young men acting like a drill team, waiting to learn pool.

Johan was ex-Dutch Special Forces, an expert in discipline and teamwork. This explained all of the eager teenagers waiting for us in the middle of the night, and Johan’s tireless work ethic.


Source: https://www.sneakypetemafia.com/the-value-of-a-coach-bert-kinister/

The list could go on and on. From John Morra and his coach/father Mario Morra in Canada to Jennifer Beretta and her personal billiards coach, Stu (our very own SJM-who she has worked with weekly for over a decade on her game).

From my observations, it seems for the most part, American and Filipino players are more solitary in nature, as is the pool culture. In America, pool players will take one-off lessons from various coaches, sometimes hopping from one coach to another to get proper analysis of their game. But then it is back off to the pool hall by themselves, and in tournament play, they become their own coach.

Yes, unless there are unlimited funds or a billiard academy down the street, all good players have to eventually become their own coach in a way. But with the Americans and Filipino players, the solitary pool warrior is usually the status quo.

This is how our pool culture always was though. Luther Lassiter didn’t have a coach by his side and neither did Efren Reyes. Their early careers and instruction were centered on gambling and action games.

But the game of pocket billiards has been progressing towards a sport for many years now. The players are becoming more athletic, focusing on physical workouts as much as drills on the table. And other countries are following suit:

Years of hard work among the grass-roots of Taiwanese pool established a system that saw the game find its way into high school educational programmes and with it government funding.

That structure paid dividends in 2005 when 18-year-old Wu Chia-ching (left) became the second Taiwanese player to win the World 9 Ball when he beat countryman Kuo Po-cheng in a thrilling final in Kaohsiung.


Source: http://blog.xuite.net/stradivarius/blog/17090833-Just+who+is+Ko+Pin-yi+?

Niels Feijen, on his early years in the sport, writes:

A big thing also happened in Holland: The Olympic Commitee gave pool the highest status. This meant that if players reached the quarterfinal in the European or World Championships, they got their A-Status which meant a monthly income through pool!!

Source: http://www.nielsfeijen.nl/content.php?id=2

And with those government funds, a professional billiard coach follows.

While I totally agree that pool coaches can be beneficial… In this particular match Shane didn't need a pool coach, he needed a witch doctor. I'm not taking anything away from Ko, he deserved the world title (especially because of his performance in the semi final), but he beat Shane because he got a about 10 really good lucky breaks in the match plain and simple… that happens in 9 ball its par for the course… but I totally disagree with anybody that says Shane lost this match because of his play. While I think he could have made two different decisions (the safe on the seven, and playing a different push possibly), the truth is that every time he came to the table it was challenging. He almost never had a good shot on the first ball on his break and Ko almost always had easy layouts.
 
While I totally agree that pool coaches can be beneficial… In this particular match Shane didn't need a pool coach, he needed a witch doctor. I'm not taking anything away from Ko, he deserved the world title (especially because of his performance in the semi final), but he beat Shane because he got a about 10 really good lucky breaks in the match plain and simple… that happens in 9 ball its par for the course… but I totally disagree with anybody that says Shane lost this match because of his play. While I think he could have made two different decisions (the safe on the seven, and playing a different push possibly), the truth is that every time he came to the table it was challenging. He almost never had a good shot on the first ball on his break and Ko almost always had easy layouts.
It is true that people can sometimes over analyze a situation that was mostly chance or luck. Shane can play with anybody in the world. He doesn't really need to work on any aspect of his game because he is super-elite- especially his break. There are guys that pocket balls just as well or have on par strategy, but nobody breaks at as consistently high of level as Shane.
 
If it wasn't his dad , he probably couldn't afford him.
I just watched a program about Donald Trump , it showed them getting his 100 million dollar plane ready to fly him to Scotland , then England , then home.
With all the people involved including a chef , it probably cost him a couple hundred thousand , just to fly over and back.
That guy pisses away more money every day , than most people make in a life time.
 
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It's a strange American habbit to still idolize the old loner, hustler-style approach for playing (professional) pool.

Everbody knows that being on your own can make you great, once, but you will not stay great over time. The human mind has only a limited amount of ideas, and ideas multiply if you're with someone.
Every problem and its solution is about ideas and it's about a reality check from time to time. Being just on your own plays tricks on your mind and you'll end up like Earl Strickland who's lost it all.

Incidently I perceive Shane van Boening not as the complete loner and insensitive person some are making him out to be.
I think he actually follows a more European style in his demeanor. Only his air-strokes are a little reminiscent of the old show offs - but hey, whatever works to be relaxed on the next stroke. I did that a couple of times to calibrate for the new glove I was wearing because the sliding mechanics were so different.

Cheers,
M
 
Traveling with Mike D helped a lot! Shane needed a caddy on the last few holes or (commercial break). Ko's a dangerous player for sure, but go a little lucky. Shane's gotta be feeling like Phil Mickelson right now...speaking of golf.
 
Great post! And agree with it fully. I am around a lot of junior players and you can definitely see the difference in the kids that have parents that work the right way with them and also those that come from other countries that have an established system for junior pool.

Asian countries in particular, you just need to look at the Junior World events to see that. I've talked to the parents of kids that went to the Junior World tournament and they said pretty much exactly this: "the kids from Asia are trained young pro players, the kids from the US were kids that played a lot of pool".
 
I probably watched half of Shane's games and had my impression of how he played based upon the matches with Orcullo, Ko Pin Chung & the final match against one great and very lucky player Ko Pin Yi. Thanks for keeping me in the loop about Shane's other matches.

I suppose with all of the talk about how Alternate Break is a feature that keeps similar level players from running away with the match, well it just stuck in my head that Shane had far greater domination in the latter matches than ANY of the other players. Ko Pin Chung and Ko Pin Yi are similarly, highly talented players and Shane put a severe spanking on Chung and would have done the same to Yi if Yi hadn't had been carrying 4 rabbits feet in his pocket. (Ko Pin Yi is a GREAT player but he is an EXTREMELY lucky guy in the finals match, imo.)

Anyway, I also wanted to take a moment and thank you for your many great posts on AZB!


JoeyA


I watched 7 of Shane's 8 matches in the tournament (all but Diaz-Pizarro). I'd rate his play as subpar (for him) all the way through the second game of his match (the 4th of his matches that I watched, his 5th in the event) with Yu-Lung Chang. Shane missed 4 shots in the first 2 games of that match!. But then, for the remainder of the Yu-Lung match Shane played pretty well while also benefiting greatly from inferior (for him) play from Chang. So my expectations for Shane for the Orcollo match were not sky high. And then he just played super against both Orcollo and P-C Ko. Truly a fickle game
 
While I totally agree that pool coaches can be beneficial… In this particular match Shane didn't need a pool coach, he needed a witch doctor. I'm not taking anything away from Ko, he deserved the world title (especially because of his performance in the semi final), but he beat Shane because he got a about 10 really good lucky breaks in the match plain and simple… that happens in 9 ball its par for the course… but I totally disagree with anybody that says Shane lost this match because of his play. While I think he could have made two different decisions (the safe on the seven, and playing a different push possibly), the truth is that every time he came to the table it was challenging. He almost never had a good shot on the first ball on his break and Ko almost always had easy layouts.

I'm leaning toward your line of thinking. :D

JoeyA
 
While I totally agree that pool coaches can be beneficial… In this particular match Shane didn't need a pool coach, he needed a witch doctor. I'm not taking anything away from Ko, he deserved the world title (especially because of his performance in the semi final), but he beat Shane because he got a about 10 really good lucky breaks in the match plain and simple… that happens in 9 ball its par for the course… but I totally disagree with anybody that says Shane lost this match because of his play. While I think he could have made two different decisions (the safe on the seven, and playing a different push possibly), the truth is that every time he came to the table it was challenging. He almost never had a good shot on the first ball on his break and Ko almost always had easy layouts.

I have to disagree about the coach being beneficial. Of course, I'm rooting for SVB to win. But, I knew going in that Ko was an equal talent, and it could go either way. Yes, Ko got the rolls, no doubt about that, and Shane did great keeping the score close.

But, I feel, what lost the match was Shanes' mental attitude. Watch his body language playing the matches he won 11-1. Then watch his body language playing KO. He struggled most of the way with KO. At times, you can tell by his body language that he was confident and his play showed. Other times, you can tell that he just wasn't confident, and thereby had great hesitation to shoot anything.

I feel that a coach could have talked to him and helped keep his confidence up where it needed to be. If he had that confidence, I don't think he would have made the mistakes he did (which cost him the match) after he was tied at 9-9. His great skill carried him through to keep it close, but you can see that he didn't see himself winning the match. A coach could have helped change that attitude.
 
True, if the United States had millions of kids in regimented training several hours a day then the United States would have better pool players. How are you going to accomplish that? What if kids don't want to spend several hours a day playing pool? Who is the instructor going to be? I know of some high level pool players I wouldn't want anywhere near a kid. They would pick up some bad habits. I also know of some high level pool players who are broke or close to it.

So you put millions of kids in regimented training. A few become pro pool players and struggle to make a living. The other 99.9% - they spend their childhood taking pool lessons.

Regarding Shane - I've read he found refuge in the pool hall because other kids were picking on him due to his hearing disability and that is the reason he spent hours a day playing pool. I've also read he turns his hearing aid off during matches to avoid distractions so a coach might throw his game off more than help.
 
Does anyone know who coached Mike dechaine and SVB for the world cup of pool?

And if no one, could Mark Wilson have made a positive influence in their performance by being on scene and coaching them in the day before and day of their loss to Qatar ?
 
Does anyone know who coached Mike dechaine and SVB for the world cup of pool?

And if no one, could Mark Wilson have made a positive influence in their performance by being on scene and coaching them in the day before and day of their loss to Qatar ?

I don't think they had a coach. I know for a fact Waleed has a coach 24/7 that travels with him to every tournament, but I didn't see any coaching today. I don't think it would've mattered if both teams had a coach, Qatar straight up outplayed USA.
 
I don't think they had a coach. I know for a fact Waleed has a coach 24/7 that travels with him to every tournament, but I didn't see any coaching today. I don't think it would've mattered if both teams had a coach, Qatar straight up outplayed USA.

I was thinking more along the lines of preparation for the match.

This was an interesting quote from one of the Indonesian players yesterday after beating Germany....

A delighted Muhammad Simanjuntak, “In the first match there is always a bit of pressure but we have had very good preparation for this tournament. Our plan was to just enjoy the games and do our best. Nine-ball is a game where anything can happen, like Romania beat China earlier today.

It sounds like coaching was involved when there is talk of "very good preparation" by the players.

I remember watching Mike Neumann (ouschans coach) take notes in the stands while Jasmine was resting during a tournament, he was scouting her potential next opponents.
Possible weaknesses that could be exploited during a match?

This stuff really is fascinating when teams/players take it to another level.
 
Final thought...

There is nothing wrong with Shane or his game! Whatever he's doing is working just fine!

Spot on.

I watched the final again, some random thoughts...

I thought the venue they held this tournament at had to be the weirdest place to play,
a green lit airplane hanger supposedly freezing cold (it WAS in the desert).. just weird silence except for the industrial air conditioners.. strange.

Please, call the nine. Ko missing his shot, nine goes two rails into the side... that counts?

Ko is a great player, very precise... but he drove me nuts with the getting down, up again, down, up again, walk around the table, airstroke, walk around the table, etc.
And don't smirk when you've unintentionally hooked Shane on a bad jump shot.. just sayin'.

Shane played some bad shots... a simple three ball runout, and he doesn't pull the
CB back for the 7... in fact, both players made some uncharacteristic position fluffs..

In golf, there's a term called "The Yips", where you mentally get in the way of your stroke... I think they both suffered from that a little.

My .02 cents:)
 
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