Last Nights TAR Match..Best Yet

I agree something needs to change, but I don't think roll out after the break would add any entertainment value, especially for non-serious players. I love playing the game as much as anyone else here, but even I find it hard to watch pool matches unless it's one of my favorite players.
When I think of entertainment, I think of larger-than-life player personas, active crowds, shorter shot clocks, professional editing, commentary that is knowledgeable yet humorous and easy to follow... I think if you can do this and have a Mosconi-cup like atmosphere (without the jeering of course) you'll have something marketable.
With the right atmosphere and memorable characters worth cheering for (or against), I believe that people will watch just about anything.
 
Pool, Poker, and Pain is the closest thing we have brewing

victorl said:
I agree something needs to change, but I don't think roll out after the break would add any entertainment value, especially for non-serious players. I love playing the game as much as anyone else here, but even I find it hard to watch pool matches unless it's one of my favorite players.
When I think of entertainment, I think of larger-than-life player personas, active crowds, shorter shot clocks, professional editing, commentary that is knowledgeable yet humorous and easy to follow... I think if you can do this and have a Mosconi-cup like atmosphere (without the jeering of course) you'll have something marketable.
With the right atmosphere and memorable characters worth cheering for (or against), I believe that people will watch just about anything.
Click to expand...

I agree with your entire post.....sometimes you have to bring up things like "rolling out after the break" to get to the real "meat" of the issue. The rules or how the game's played will end up having very little to do with the turn around of pool's popularity in the United States.

The Mosconi Cup is a great production, probably the best in history, however, it's still missing something. They really need to do a three week series leading up to the Mosconi Cup that showcases the players and shows them training, eating, drinking, socializing, doing other hobbies, etc.

From what I have learned from our research and development is "the characters are who we watch and cheer for, the game is just a back drop"......we are on the same page and whatever happens to make pool popular again it will consist of making the personalities/characters stand out somehow, some way. Pool, Poker, and Pain is the closest thing we have brewing, maybe it can do it, if not something "reality based" will succeed. imho
 
It's a shame people can't stay on topic. The purpose of this thread was great because it celebrated the two players and the great work the people at TAR do for us pool fans. Threads like this needs to stay clean from off topic thoughts. I understand it might be difficult, but it's boring reading about new rules inside a celebration thread.
 
So glad that Jcin is the guy running the show. I could always tell he has good common sense.

Pushing out after every break is preposterous if we are focused on making the game more watchable.

I cannot believe Accustats has anything to do with this nonsense.
 
Luxury said:
So glad that Jcin is the guy running the show. I could always tell he has good common sense.

Pushing out after every break is preposterous if we are focused on making the game more watchable.

I cannot believe Accustats has anything to do with this nonsense.
Click to expand...

I guess this is what makes a market... I am looking forward to watching the Jayson ... JA match with the rule in place... So.. I am glad that JCIN is the guy running "the show" at TAR ...
 
Ugh... so this mandatory push after the break is finally coming to fruition in a match...

That is so damn absurd, it's like they are saying "Our breaks arent as good so we will just take that out of the equation since we don't work on them as much as other players".

Instead of breaking at all I can send my 2 year old daughters up there and have them roll 10 balls out on the table for them.

After the last thread regarding mandatory push I have a feeling that was one of Archer's requirements for the match and Shaw just agreed to it, which is sad because Johnny can really crush them too.

I think it is just an excuse for a player to not have to work on a certain aspect of their game. Here you are punishing someone for making a great break. APA much?

The majority of the spectators want to see packs being run on tough equipment. This match will not have 1 break and run in it and that is disgusting and not pool.
 
Last edited:
CJ Wiley said:
Hall, Hopkins, Archer, Reyes,

This is no "solution" to anything, it just brings out more of the Game and a hundred times more shots then you'll normally see.

Pool's doing so wonderful God forbid anyone try to make any changes. This would be so.....so.....logical?:groucho:

The definition of insanity is: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" Albert Einstein

Change can be good....or not....one thing's for certain, it will be different.

insanity.gif
Click to expand...
So in order to succeed, pool must do something different... and that is to change the game so a player cannot shoot at the lowest ball on the table and must play a push out.

Good luck trying to sell that to the world. The entire world plays pool to where you are allowed to play a shot after the break. If this were to be on tv the average joe would just say WTF and change the channel as they will have no idea what is going on.

Mandatory push is changing the game for the players who cannot compete with those who have the great breaks. It benefits them and only them. It isnt making pool or marketable and it doesnt help make it more successful. If anything it is doing the opposite of that because now there is yet another absurd rule that the public will just not understand.

In all actuality, I think the mandatory push is really a spot for Archer.
 
Last edited:
Icon of Sin said:
.....

The majority of the spectators want to see packs being run on tough equipment. ....
Click to expand...

I don't ... place two DVDs in front of me... Both SVB vs Dennis... race to 11 ... one Dennis wins by running out the set 11 - 0 ... the other Dennis wins 11-0 but there is a safety battle in every game... I will take the latter in a heart beat and might never watch the former... the balls still need to be taken off the table BUT I also get to see some great safety, kicking and thinking along the way... vs... just taking the balls offthe table...
 
nb92 said:
I don't ... place two DVDs in front of me... Both SVB vs Dennis... race to 11 ... one Dennis wins by running out the set 11 - 0 ... the other Dennis wins 11-0 but there is a safety battle in every game... I will take the latter in a heart beat and might never watch the former... the balls still need to be taken off the table BUT I also get to see some great safety, kicking and thinking along the way... vs... just taking the balls offthe table...
Click to expand...
lol.. if it was "just taking the balls off the table" then anyone could do it.

Frankly, I'd like to see the 11 pack. That is something that would be talked about in the history of pool forever (like Earl's million dollar challenge). A player winning and playing safeties happens all the time. Corey blanking Mika in the finals of the US Open already happened in the method you described. To my knowledge, no one has ever ran a set out at the Open.
 
Last edited:
Icon of Sin said:
So in order to succeed, pool must do something different... and that is to change the game so a player cannot shoot at the lowest ball on the table and must play a push out.

Good luck trying to sell that to the world. The entire world plays pool to where you are allowed to play a shot after the break. If this were to be on tv the average joe would just say WTF and change the channel as they will have no idea what is going on.

Mandatory push is changing the game for the players who cannot compete with those who have the great breaks. It benefits them and only them. It isnt making pool or marketable and it doesnt help make it more successful. If anything it is doing the opposite of that because now there is yet another absurd rule that the public will just not understand.

In all actuality, I think the mandatory push is really a spot for Archer.
Click to expand...
yeah johnny is a bad breaker so he probably needs a spot.lol
 
poolpimp13 said:
yeah johnny is a bad breaker so he probably needs a spot.lol
Click to expand...

I never said he is a bad breaker. Actually I said he can crush them in a previous post and agreed with another poster about him probably having the better break, but there was a recent thread were Johnny wanted to play Dechaine with the mandatory push rule. This is a rule that Johnny is throwing out there.
 
Icon of Sin said:
lol.. if it was "just taking the balls off the table" then anyone could do it.

Frankly, I'd like to see the 11 pack. That is something that would be talked about in the history of pool forever (like Earl's million dollar challenge). A player winning and playing safeties happens all the time.
Click to expand...

OK... we differ... an 11 is a matter of consistency and luck... break, get a shot, balls are runnable, don't miss... I agree it is the HIGHEST level of consistency in the sport.. but on the big table my little 2 packets (9-ball) happen often enough not to be a surprise and I suck.. so I would expect the best in the world to put together a 3 or 4 in a long set and if lighting strikes a lot more...

I just happen to really enjoy "watching" a match with more play in it... offense AND defense.. I enjoy playing in a match that has a LOT of run outs (If I am doing the running LOL)... but the pressure a good safety puts on the incoming player and then a great response and the tables are turned! Efren had one of the worst breaks (at the elite level) but his legend grew from the strategy he was able to execute and the SKILLS required to execute that strategy ... How did he beat those guys with the "big break"? He out played them..

Today.. put the best breaker in the world, who takes the balls off the table ok on average equipment and they have a significant advantage...

Play that same match on really tight pockets and the best "PLAYER" will win... I just want to see the "Player" play :cool:
 
nb92 said:
OK... we differ... an 11 is a matter of consistency and luck... break, get a shot, balls are runnable, don't miss... I agree it is the HIGHEST level of consistency in the sport.. but on the big table my little 2 packets (9-ball) happen often enough not to be a surprise and I suck.. so I would expect the best in the world to put together a 3 or 4 in a long set and if lighting strikes a lot more...

I just happen to really enjoy "watching" a match with more play in it... offense AND defense.. I enjoy playing in a match that has a LOT of run outs (If I am doing the running LOL)... but the pressure a good safety puts on the incoming player and then a great response and the tables are turned! Efren had one of the worst breaks (at the elite level) but his legend grew from the strategy he was able to execute and the SKILLS required to execute that strategy ... How did he beat those guys with the "big break"? He out played them..

Today.. put the best breaker in the world, who takes the balls off the table ok on average equipment and they have a significant advantage...

Play that same match on really tight pockets and the best "PLAYER" will win... I just want to see the "Player" play :cool:
Click to expand...

Short rack rotation games are run out games.

You want to see safety battles? Watch one pocket.
 
nb92 said:
Efren had one of the worst breaks (at the elite level) but his legend grew from the strategy he was able to execute and the SKILLS required to execute that strategy ... How did he beat those guys with the "big break"? He out played them.
Click to expand...

Can't fault you for wanting to see strategic matches rather than runouts.
But, it's overstating things to say efren had one of the worst breaks.
We just expected superhuman breaks from him because he's superhuman at everything else.
His breaks were average, for a pro.

Also, if your argument is that tight pockets will force players to shoot like efren...
sorry, it doesn't work like that. If the guy who steps to the table doesn't
have efren-like skills at kicking, safeties, etc...
tightening the pockets won't give him those skills.

Instead, tightening the pockets just leads to misses. Misses might turn into a cool safety
battle but usually just result in the other guy mopping up a failed runout.
 
CreeDo said:
Can't fault you for wanting to see strategic matches rather than runouts.
But, it's overstating things to say efren had one of the worst breaks.
We just expected superhuman breaks from him because he's superhuman at everything else.
His breaks were average, for a pro.

Also, if your argument is that tight pockets will force players to shoot like efren...
sorry, it doesn't work like that. If the guy who steps to the table doesn't
have efren-like skills at kicking, safeties, etc...
tightening the pockets won't give him those skills.

Instead, tightening the pockets just leads to misses. Misses might turn into a cool safety
battle but usually just result in the other guy mopping up a failed runout.
Click to expand...

said worst for elite player -- agree average pro

no tight pockets do not make people play like efren... argument was tight pockets slow the break.. two examples -- in a long race on the old TAR table with tighter pockets I believe Busti and Archer become a favorite (although small favorite) over SVB because of their ability to control the table during the course of play. I also believe that SVB is a favorite over either under normal conditions in a long set because his break and run over comes their advantages in other areas of the game.

I also believe Dennis O. is a favorite in a long set regardless of conditions playing 10 ball (10 ft champ, bar table champ, and US Open 10 ball champ).

I think the harder conditions determine who is the most well rounded or complete "Player"...

I was using Efren as THE example of the most complete player I have had the chance to watch (started really watching around 79) no disrespect to Varner who I see as a VERY close second.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Short rack rotation games are run out games.

You want to see safety battles? Watch one pocket.
Click to expand...

Thank you.. I will. I will be watching the round robin 1 pkt tournament on the 10 ftr this month :grin-square:

and I will watch the JA / Jayson 10 ball on the 10 footer also
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top