Lathe chucks for cue building

[champ94wfo]

Hi,
I continually hear all kinds of fuss about builders trying to make their 3 jaw chucks run true.
When I was in high school I took a machine shop course, and I was interested in something at school, for the first time ever, except for T&A that is.
Well, now that I thought I had this wealth of knowledge, I would put it to use. I was working after school at my Fathers motorcycle shop, and asked him if I could turn something on his lathe. He said sure, go ahead, do you want some help. I said yeah Pops, how do I change this chuck you have on here, to the one with 3 jaws, like school has.
In about 2 seconds flat, he was off his chair, and telling me that the only use for those were cutting bar and pipe, and for stupid @$*&^% that didn't know how to use a lathe. Well that might have been a little harsh, but he also grabbed an indicator on a base, and began to show me the basics of setting up that 4 jaw. Obviously, this was how he really felt, because I never saw that 3 jaw chuck taken out of the box it came in, as long as he had that machine.
My comment would be, are there so many cue builders that do not have enough abilities to competently operate at 4 jaw chuck? If this is true, then I would guess we have lost those skills to the age of high tech also.
I have read so much about builders shimming forearms to even the points, just for one example. I sure think that adjusting it off center with a 4 jaw,would be so much easier.
This brings me to another question. Could it be that most cue builders do not have the desire to machine anything other than cues? We all have a large investment in equipment, why not use it for anything that makes a profit.
I do some local machine work, when I have time, and if I like the guy. It's usually one or two of a kind parts. Because it's too costly for a production shop to stop, and set up for those one or two items, the wage per hour I can charge always exceeds what one can expect turning wood.
I know that most of us build cues out of passion for the game, but it sure doesn't hurt to keep the light bills paid.
These are just my thoughts, and I have been known to be way off base before. I truly believe that anyone without a machining background, could only benefit themselves, by taking some tech school courses on basic machine work, before even attempting their first cue.
Sincerely,
Rudie

 

[iusedtoberich]

I did repairs for several years, never got into building. I too have a machining background, and the toolmakers who helped me, told me the same thing about scroll chucks.

For the first few years on my Hightower lathe, I used the 3 jaw it came with, and was never happy with how true it held the work. Every shaft had a bit of a warp to it, or wasn't even truly round.

I bought a Taig 4-jaw independent chuck, and indicated in every single repair job I did from then on. It worked much better. I could get shafts running as true as possible. This made repairs such as ferrule replacement much better. Even a shaft that was not round, could be held so that its out of roundness was balanced, and then there would be less sanding to blend the ferrule to it.

I also made a set of 10 or so shaft collars to use with the 4 jaw. They had ID's ranging from .450 to .540 in .010 increments. Their OD was all identical at .625. So when I get a new job for a repair, I would match the collar to the shaft as close as possible, and then there would be less jaw movement necessary to indicate the shaft. This would make the setup slightly faster.

I know most people uses scroll chucks successfully. I personally just had a much more enjoyable time with repairs once I switched to using independent chucks. YMMV

 

[TomHay]

Well, lets see, where does one start? Joey on here offers a Jig that will dead nut center a 3 or 4 jaw chuck.

The rest comes down to economics and room. Lets go with Jet a Lathe as I feel they make very good lathes. Oh, I can tell you now a 6 Jaw will beat a 3 or 4 to death. My "Shop" however is located on the second floor of my Condo with only an ordinary door and flight of steps.

You also need your Tail Stock to be in 100% line with your Head Stock and have it stay that way for 30 plus inches. This means your centers and collets have to be 100% exact as well.

If you do a search you will find the better the parts and tolerances, the more costly they become.

A few months back Thomas Wayne posted a picture of but one of his lathes and set ups. Dare you guess the cost? It works if you are getting Thomas Wayne money for cues.

Many of the Cue Repair people and Cue Makers on here such as yourself have found little secrets and tricks to make their chucks etc work such as suggestions made above.

I find it amazing the technology you can buy if you have the money and room. I find it more Amazing however on those that can take what they have and make it work.

I have used a simple piece of masking tape and put it on part of my live center to off set the cut to bring the points in and than redrilled center.

Yes, we can improve, I don't think you can ever reach a point you can't improve. In the mean time you "Battle the Beast" you have and make it work as cash and room builds for you to improve.

 

[scdiveteam]

Well, lets see, where does one start? Joey on here offers a Jig that will dead nut center a 3 or 4 jaw chuck.

The rest comes down to economics and room. Lets go with Jet a Lathe as I feel they make very good lathes. Oh, I can tell you now a 6 Jaw will beat a 3 or 4 to death. My "Shop" however is located on the second floor of my Condo with only an ordinary door and flight of steps.

You also need your Tail Stock to be in 100% line with your Head Stock and have it stay that way for 30 plus inches. This means your centers and collets have to be 100% exact as well.

If you do a search you will find the better the parts and tolerances, the more costly they become.

A few months back Thomas Wayne posted a picture of but one of his lathes and set ups. Dare you guess the cost? It works if you are getting Thomas Wayne money for cues.

Many of the Cue Repair people and Cue Makers on here such as yourself have found little secrets and tricks to make their chucks etc work such as suggestions made above.

I find it amazing the technology you can buy if you have the money and room. I find it more Amazing however on those that can take what they have and make it work.

I have used a simple piece of masking tape and put it on part of my live center to off set the cut to bring the points in and than redrilled center.

Yes, we can improve, I don't think you can ever reach a point you can't improve. In the mean time you "Battle the Beast" you have and make it work as cash and room builds for you to improve.

Tom, you could not have said it better!

Rick

 

[josie]

Does anybody make a Taig based independent 4 jaw chuck with a large through hole? That is the main problem I see. The small bore limits what you can do.

 

[Canadian cue]

Working as a Machinist I became quite proficient at using the four jaw but in cue work there is a distinct disadvantage. When dealing with larger sizes of chucks in the 6+diam, you put can put excessive jaw pressure on your piece
and when you are working with wood that is not good. With a scroll chuck you can grip something quite gently. IMHO the best way to hold something in the lathe is with collets. I use the Jacobs rubber flex collets. Here is a pic of the style which I am talking about. http://steammachine.com/hercus/page7.html

 

[JoeyInCali]

Working as a Machinist I became quite proficient at using the four jaw but in cue work there is a distinct disadvantage. When dealing with larger sizes of chucks in the 6+diam, you put can put excessive jaw pressure on your piece
and when you are working with wood that is not good. With a scroll chuck you can grip something quite gently. IMHO the best way to hold something in the lathe is with collets. I use the Jacobs rubber flex collets. Here is a pic of the style which I am talking about. http://steammachine.com/hercus/page7.html

Those put a nice gouges on wood though.

6-jaw Set Tru Bison is what I use now. 6-jaws give your more grip on small parts.
4-jaw would be nice in installing pins, threading shafts or most really accuracy-demanded work.
I do have a Royal collet closer and will be using that in the future ( like making ferrules and inserts ).

 

[Canadian cue]

Those put a nice gouges on wood though.

6-jaw Set Tru Bison is what I use now. 6-jaws give your more grip on small parts.
4-jaw would be nice in installing pins, threading shafts or most really accuracy-demanded work.
I do have a Royal collet closer and will be using that in the future ( like making ferrules and inserts ).

It doesn't matter what type of chuck you use you still have to use protective collets and you have to compensate for the taper of the cue. A flex collet is essentially a multi jawed chuck, just the jaws are allot smaller. My only restriction with my collets is I cant hold diameters over 1" The bigger chucks in this series do though. Another consideration is the speed rating of the chuck four jaws are usually not rated for high spindle speeds.

 

[rhncue]

Does anybody make a Taig based independent 4 jaw chuck with a large through hole? That is the main problem I see. The small bore limits what you can do.

Just take the Taig 4-jaw independent chuck, remove the jaws, bore out body and then re-install jaws. I also turned a lip on the back side so that I can just mount into my normal 6-jaw on my lathe. This is bored to 1.400.

Dick

 

[rhncue]

Well, lets see, where does one start? Joey on here offers a Jig that will dead nut center a 3 or 4 jaw chuck.

The rest comes down to economics and room. Lets go with Jet a Lathe as I feel they make very good lathes. Oh, I can tell you now a 6 Jaw will beat a 3 or 4 to death. My "Shop" however is located on the second floor of my Condo with only an ordinary door and flight of steps.

You also need your Tail Stock to be in 100% line with your Head Stock and have it stay that way for 30 plus inches. This means your centers and collets have to be 100% exact as well.

If you do a search you will find the better the parts and tolerances, the more costly they become.

A few months back Thomas Wayne posted a picture of but one of his lathes and set ups. Dare you guess the cost? It works if you are getting Thomas Wayne money for cues.

Many of the Cue Repair people and Cue Makers on here such as yourself have found little secrets and tricks to make their chucks etc work such as suggestions made above.

I find it amazing the technology you can buy if you have the money and room. I find it more Amazing however on those that can take what they have and make it work.

I have used a simple piece of masking tape and put it on part of my live center to off set the cut to bring the points in and than redrilled center.

Yes, we can improve, I don't think you can ever reach a point you can't improve. In the mean time you "Battle the Beast" you have and make it work as cash and room builds for you to improve.

I agree with most of what you state other than your statement that the 6 jaw will beat a 3 or 4 jaw to death. An independent chuck is the most accurate chuck on earth. A set-tru chuck, be it 3 or 6 jaw, is combination of a scroll and an independent chuck but is much harder to adjust to get true accuracy over a standard 4-jaw independent chuck.

I use a 6-jaw set-tru chuck on one of my lathes but when fitting a shaft to an others butt I mount a smaller 4-jaw independent chuck so that I can indicate the end of the joint perfectly. I have pictures of it in another post.

Dick

 

[TomHay]

Dick,

No arguement here. I mis wrote as I was writing of all being set.

 

[Newton]

Just take the Taig 4-jaw independent chuck, remove the jaws, bore out body and then re-install jaws. I also turned a lip on the back side so that I can just mount into my normal 6-jaw on my lathe. This is bored to 1.400.

Dick

Damn Dick, that is a good setup-me like:smile:
After I mounted my 6 jaw I have not done mutch to it-it's pretty good if I keep it clean. Have you experienced that your's don't hold tolerances and change over time hence use your trick with the small 4jaw?
I was considering a collet chuck but the limited amount of sizes of collets backed me off (for larger non-pool related work).

To the OP
My reason for going for a 6jaw was speed in work and speed (rpm), when the 3 jaw died.
Using the hugh 4jaw for shafts and the likes felt wrong-but Dick's trick might be a winner if my 6 jaw start going off.
Also, the reason for buying a heavy metal late was exactly like you say-if I get tired of cues it could be used to machine mechanical parts outside the narrow "pool cue " focus point.

K

 

[rhncue]

Damn Dick, that is a good setup-me like:smile:
After I mounted my 6 jaw I have not done mutch to it-it's pretty good if I keep it clean. Have you experienced that your's don't hold tolerances and change over time hence use your trick with the small 4jaw?
I was considering a collet chuck but the limited amount of sizes of collets backed me off (for larger non-pool related work).

To the OP
My reason for going for a 6jaw was speed in work and speed (rpm), when the 3 jaw died.
Using the hugh 4jaw for shafts and the likes felt wrong-but Dick's trick might be a winner if my 6 jaw start going off.
Also, the reason for buying a heavy metal late was exactly like you say-if I get tired of cues it could be used to machine mechanical parts outside the narrow "pool cue " focus point.

K

No, my set-tru stays running plenty true enough and can be re-adjusted and trued if needed. I do a lot of repair work and make a lot of shafts for people. I use the independent chuck as many of the cues are not perfectly round or the pin is not centered or a little warpage. Comes in real handy in those cases.

Dick

 

[Newton]

No, my set-tru stays running plenty true enough and can be re-adjusted and trued if needed. I do a lot of repair work and make a lot of shafts for people. I use the independent chuck as many of the cues are not perfectly round or the pin is not centered or a little warpage. Comes in real handy in those cases.

Dick

Good to hear, the one I use has been working fine.

BOY did you hit the nail regarding non-centered pin and warpage...
I had to use thick 800 sandpaper (!) on the last cue I repaired to index it correctly on my 6 jaw and it was a pain in the A to do every time it was removed from the headstock...I guess I did not do it enough times to come up with your idea
Thx

K

 

[Canadian cue]

One point worth mentioning as it concerns to accurate chucks. Having the piece run concentric to the axis at the end of the jaws is only one measure of a chucks accuracy. The jaws in a typical chuck are 1.5"+ long and how parallel they run to the axis is just as important. You can buy an old set true chuck and dial it in to hold a short piece quite accurately but if the slots that the jaws run in are worn your chuck will still be inaccurate. To explain my point chuck a long piece of steel rod in your chuck, say 6" now dial it in at the chuck and then move your dial at the end of your rod. Is it still the same? How this applies to cues is if say your holding a shaft and you are using the double chuck system. You put your shaft in the lathe and tighten the rear lightly then tighten the front. Your dial could read good at both ends but if your front jaws are not parallel it could be bending the shaft in the middle. A four jaw is no different in this respect. In Dick's style of chuck he has minimized this effect by chucking only on points of a set screw, so the shaft is able to tilt in the jaws.