Outstanding!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:
League Advice??
- Thread starter Cmbeers
- Start date
Outstanding!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:
I'm surprised at this comment coming from you.
Typically you are very positive on all aspects of pool.
I agree that the APA for instance has evolved into a league that could promote bad pool playing.
Possibly due to the 23-point handicap restrictions for each team, excessive sandbagging, too much of a penalty for defensive shots, and players that are afraid to move up because there is always the threat of breaking up the team.
In most places leagues are what is keeping pool alive, and the rooms that don't have leagues are dying.
I wouldn't want to be a bar or room owner trying to rely on the tournament players and gamblers to make money.
The top players here in Denver either don't have any money or don't spend any money.
They go around and rob the local $10 bar tournaments, they collect their $120 by beating up on the regulars and never spend more than a buck or two on water or a Coke, and complain about that.
This is why Hank's Billiards here isn't having tournaments.
Hank loses money whenever he has a tournament, unless it is a league tournament.
During the last 10-ball tour event at Greenfields, very expensive for the owner, quite a few players, and the waitress had $200 in total sales.
Pool is all fun and games until your favorite place to play closes or changes into a BINGO parlor.
In this economy it's about survival, and most of the league players spend money when they go out.
The places that are making it are the places that have a lot of league action period.
I'm trying to form a triple-A BINGO team but nobody is interested.
This post is a very bad thing IMHO. If you don't like leagues, that's your issue, don't jump on some guys thread who is asking for advice dealing with someone and make a blanket statement about leagues.
Where in the OPs original post did he ask for unhelpful opinions?
To the original poster: Good on you for taking the whole team into consideration, that's more than your captain did. When I put together or join a team I feel I'm making a season long commitment for better or worse. If it doesn't work out, I make other arrangements next season, no hard feelings all around.
Of Course kukoo cowboy may not agree with me, but who cares eh.
In my 16 years on an APA team, about 12 of which were as captain, here are some principles that all members of the team should follow, and I doubt you will run into these problems:
1) You play on a team. That means *none* of the issues you have with any one person on the team should ever compromise your dedication to the team as a whole. Half assing a shot to teach one annoying person on your team a lesson is self-centered and thus wrong. Highly disrespectful to the others on the team that didn't bug you.
2) When you're wrong you're wrong. It isn't the fault of the person who points it out to you. Accept criticism without defensiveness, and you keep open the possibility to learn something.
3) If you want to offer someone advice, don't be an ass about it. Also, don't embarrass them in front of everyone. Your captain was wrong about saying you should have called the time out before so everyone could hear-he could have nicely and quietly told just you. However this captaining error doesn't change the correctness of the info...you *should* have asked before lol!
4) As a player, try to learn what you can do and what you can't do--what you are sure about and what you don't quite understand. Playing a shot in which you are not sure where the cue ball is going is always wrong. If this gets you hooked and *then* you ask for a time out, you are failing to properly implement the time out option in your game. You have to recognize the uncertainty you felt *before* you hooked yourself, and call the time out then.
5) If you as a player consistently make the same mistakes over and over, it isn't unreasonable for the other teammates to get a little frustrated. However, if *they* keep on telling you "nice shot" or "that's ok, you'll get it next turn"...then *they* are consistently making the same mistake over and over by not pointing out to you something you just might not realize. Facts don't need to hurt...if your teammate points out nicely that you could have done something different in a given situation, you all benefit. Obviously insulting your teammate in the process is uncalled for, usually results in defensiveness, and can often have the opposite of the desired effect.
The bottom line is that it sounds like you might have some areas for improvement in game strategy. Don't let the ass-ish way your captain pointed this out to you get in the way of your growth as a player. Accept the weaknesses that you have and try to work on them. You might point out to your captain that "you may know how to play better than me, but I have some constructive criticism for you on your coaching style with me. I'll take your advice if you take mine." Who knows, maybe he can be reasonable. If not, elect a new captain or find another team.
Hope this helps,
KMRUNOUT
1) You play on a team. That means *none* of the issues you have with any one person on the team should ever compromise your dedication to the team as a whole. Half assing a shot to teach one annoying person on your team a lesson is self-centered and thus wrong. Highly disrespectful to the others on the team that didn't bug you.
2) When you're wrong you're wrong. It isn't the fault of the person who points it out to you. Accept criticism without defensiveness, and you keep open the possibility to learn something.
3) If you want to offer someone advice, don't be an ass about it. Also, don't embarrass them in front of everyone. Your captain was wrong about saying you should have called the time out before so everyone could hear-he could have nicely and quietly told just you. However this captaining error doesn't change the correctness of the info...you *should* have asked before lol!
4) As a player, try to learn what you can do and what you can't do--what you are sure about and what you don't quite understand. Playing a shot in which you are not sure where the cue ball is going is always wrong. If this gets you hooked and *then* you ask for a time out, you are failing to properly implement the time out option in your game. You have to recognize the uncertainty you felt *before* you hooked yourself, and call the time out then.
5) If you as a player consistently make the same mistakes over and over, it isn't unreasonable for the other teammates to get a little frustrated. However, if *they* keep on telling you "nice shot" or "that's ok, you'll get it next turn"...then *they* are consistently making the same mistake over and over by not pointing out to you something you just might not realize. Facts don't need to hurt...if your teammate points out nicely that you could have done something different in a given situation, you all benefit. Obviously insulting your teammate in the process is uncalled for, usually results in defensiveness, and can often have the opposite of the desired effect.
The bottom line is that it sounds like you might have some areas for improvement in game strategy. Don't let the ass-ish way your captain pointed this out to you get in the way of your growth as a player. Accept the weaknesses that you have and try to work on them. You might point out to your captain that "you may know how to play better than me, but I have some constructive criticism for you on your coaching style with me. I'll take your advice if you take mine." Who knows, maybe he can be reasonable. If not, elect a new captain or find another team.
Hope this helps,
KMRUNOUT
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Sounds to me like the captain was WAY out of line, there was nothing helpful or constructive in his response. Question for the OP, is there a rule in your league for election of the team captain? Any other team member willing to assume the position? APA allows for an election of a new team captain upon a majority vote by team members.
Mike
Mike
Thanks to all for the input. Some very good advice in there. I definitly think after this session, it will be time for me to move on. About an hour after I posted this today, I get a text from my captian saying, and I quote, "Hey, I heard you were talking shit about me last night". I immediatly called him and he did not pick up. I left him a message stating that I would be happy to talk in person or over the phone, but I would not play the texting games. It is now hours later and he has yet to call.
I can't believe that I got caught up in all this dumb, childish stuff. (Both of us, I shouldn't have slammed the ball and he shouldn't have given me the attitude like that) I never, ever once talked any crap about him last night, unless you call expressing your feelings about how wrong I thought he was. Oh well.
Mike, It's not worth me trying to break the team up for one incident. Moving on would be easier.
Thanks again for all the input.
Chris
I can't believe that I got caught up in all this dumb, childish stuff. (Both of us, I shouldn't have slammed the ball and he shouldn't have given me the attitude like that) I never, ever once talked any crap about him last night, unless you call expressing your feelings about how wrong I thought he was. Oh well.
Mike, It's not worth me trying to break the team up for one incident. Moving on would be easier.
Thanks again for all the input.
Chris
How does the rest of the team feel? do they like and respect the current captain, sometimes instead of completely breaking up a team only 1 or 2 roster moves are needed.
Mike
Ok, I usually don't do this, but this is driving me crazy. Last night at league I get put in against a player one skill level below me. Thus a 3/2 race. First game I make a mistake and he gets me. My caption sighs and gives me a look of disgust as he slumps back in his chair. (This irratates me)
Anyhow, second game I get my opponet gets down to one ball left. I shoot a run of 3 balls and get out of shape on my last ball. I look at it for a minute, turn around and ask the caption if I can get a time out. He stands up looks at me and says, "You should have asked for that on the last f**kin ball". Now I'm pissed. I said "alright f**k it" get down slam the ball, miss, and lose the match.
I go over to him and tell him if he wants me off the team, just say the word. He just mumbles something under his breath. Now the other teams captain comes up to me and is telling me that our captain was way out of line with that. As do many other players on my team and those who saw what had happened.
Our yearly titleholders event is in 2 weeks. We won first in our divsion last 2 sessions and last titleholders we placed 3rd. I'm about to say screw it and not show because of this crap. Am I wrong?? I hate to do that to the team, but I really cannot shoot when I have a captain with no faith in me.
Just to give some background on myself. I go between a 4 and a 5 in Tap. I took a 17 year break in pool and May 2011 made my first full year back. Last session I had 8 wins 3 losses. This session I am now (including last night) 2 for 2. Not a great player, but good. I show up all the time and go with the flow.
I'm just curious how others that have done this league stuff for awhile, would handle this.
Thanks,
Chris (just venting:angry::angry
That is why a lot of us don't play on leagues. It is supposed to be fun but it often isn't. I would much rather go to the pool room and play by myself or match up even if I take the worst of it. I don't like someone else with a interest in my play. If I feel like playing one way or another it is no ones business. I don't need someone telling me I should have done this or that. Especially some guy I can give the 5 ball to in a for real match.
This was not a league problem....this was a problem with an individual who is a jerk.
Finish out the session, then find another team. (or a new captain!)
Steve
RBC
Deceased
All I can say is WOW!
Leagues are about the only thing in pool that is working to some degree.
Take a look at your favorite pool room. For it to be open every day, so you can go by and play some pool, it has to have income. Income comes from customers who go there and spend money for fun and entertainment. League players spend money for fun and entertainment.
Most tournament players, and I have played in plenty of them, go to the room expecting to make money, not spend it. What this leads to is a mindset of trying to come home with more than you left with, which leaves the pool room in a bad situation. What leagues do for me is give me the time to be with my friends, enjoy good competition, and play pool for entertainment. It costs money, and I expect that, so it's no big deal.
Without leagues, pretty much all of the rooms in Dallas would suffer or close. I know that not all leagues are as good as what we have here, but leagues are about the only good reason these days for pool players to get together for entertainment and not for making money.
If your league has issues, help those involved to work them out. Most great leagues today didn't start out that way, they evolved into great leagues. I have personally seen leagues collapse, with most of the money due to players, on more than one occasion. But we still have great, fun leagues within a year of so. Our leagues are pretty strong too. Just take a look at the stats from this years BCA Nationals. You will find TX pretty often!
So, if you want to do something that's good for pool, join a league. You'll be glad you did.
Ok, I usually don't do this, but this is driving me crazy. Last night at league I get put in against a player one skill level below me. Thus a 3/2 race. First game I make a mistake and he gets me. My caption sighs and gives me a look of disgust as he slumps back in his chair. (This irratates me)
Anyhow, second game I get my opponet gets down to one ball left. I shoot a run of 3 balls and get out of shape on my last ball. I look at it for a minute, turn around and ask the caption if I can get a time out. He stands up looks at me and says, "You should have asked for that on the last f**kin ball". Now I'm pissed. I said "alright f**k it" get down slam the ball, miss, and lose the match.
I go over to him and tell him if he wants me off the team, just say the word. He just mumbles something under his breath. Now the other teams captain comes up to me and is telling me that our captain was way out of line with that. As do many other players on my team and those who saw what had happened.
Our yearly titleholders event is in 2 weeks. We won first in our divsion last 2 sessions and last titleholders we placed 3rd. I'm about to say screw it and not show because of this crap. Am I wrong?? I hate to do that to the team, but I really cannot shoot when I have a captain with no faith in me.
Just to give some background on myself. I go between a 4 and a 5 in Tap. I took a 17 year break in pool and May 2011 made my first full year back. Last session I had 8 wins 3 losses. This session I am now (including last night) 2 for 2. Not a great player, but good. I show up all the time and go with the flow.
I'm just curious how others that have done this league stuff for awhile, would handle this.
Thanks,
Chris (just venting:angry::angry
when a girl i was dating asked me to join her team it took me 2 weeks to figure out the captain was an a**hole. i told her i was goin to quit. she and a couple others talked me into staying, so i did. at the end of the session every one else on the team decided they had enough of him and voted he could stay on the team for the next session, but not as the captain. he decided to quit.
if others on your team feel the same way as you do maybe thats something you should look into. i play in a league to have fun and also to get better. its not fun to deal with jerks on your team.
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your captain is an idiot
If your captain was so smart he should have realized that the shot before was a diffibult position shot and called the timeout himself. Barring that he should have been able to at least suggest a reasonable safe for you at the point you were at to at least make the other players out much more difficult.
If your captain was so smart he should have realized that the shot before was a diffibult position shot and called the timeout himself. Barring that he should have been able to at least suggest a reasonable safe for you at the point you were at to at least make the other players out much more difficult.
a lot of pool hall owners will not agree with you. my gf works in a pool hall and she said during the 12 team tri cup this weekend they made more in sales than they do in an entire month from the regulars. she also made more in tips those 2 days than she makes in 2 weeks .
let me clarify when i said 2 days. it was just 4 hours fri nite and 8 hours sat. thats a lot of money for just 12 hours playing time.
when i 1st started hanging out down there the owner would ask me to play him when bussiness was slow. when i tried to pay for .my time he said no charge since i was playing him. i told him he wasnt in bussiness to give free table time and paid the tab anyway.
he has several regulars that come in looking for action, if they dont find any they will play the owner a few hours and leave without paying most dont buy anything to drink either. i told him things like that going on is why he is closing the end of this month.
one more lost pool hall, its a damn shame he tried to rely on regulars and never got more league players or tournaments there.
he never did any advertising. i was going around during the tournament and telling people he did cue repair there. he was kept busy putting tips on and several people left cues to get cleaned or other things done.
LEAGUES SUCK PERIOD!!! All leagues are set up for the operator and the leagues to make all the money and at the players expense.....APA,BCA,VALLEY...ETC.Heres what you do play long enough to get qualified for state and national tourny's,play in the singles events only.thats the only way you will ever get any money out of them!
Of course they're set up to make the ops money!
Do you think they'd survive if they didn't do that?
If making money is so bad, then why did you conclude your post by dissing leagues because YOU can't make money?
Hello?
Jeff Livingston
I get plenty of reward. I get to play a lot, every week, in a competitive environment. I get to play different folks from the regulars at the room I frequent. I learn a lot. I get the camaraderie of being part of a team, working towards a common goal. I even got a little prize money.
I get a lot out of league. Someone much wiser than I once stated something to the effect "you get out of something what you put into it."
Your mileage may vary.
I don't know anyone who joined the league to "make money" Pool for most isn't a job. It is leasure time. Most league players aren't gamblers either. There are always goingto be a few who chirp about how great they are after they lose a match. How they are the better player and they have the money to prove it, ie match up in a gambling sense. Personally, I don't have anything to prove to anybody. If they were really the better player they would have won the match even up. This kind of behavior almost never happens when handicap is involved. It is just poor sportsmanship and sore loser behavior.
League players are there for the spirited competition, the comradery of a team and many of the better players in the league (at least in my area) for the satisfaction of helping and watching the novice players get better. I get as much personal satisfaction out of helping a 3 make a difficult shot for the win than I do winning my own match.
If you go into a league expecting to get paid out you are going to be disappointed. That isn't what they are about. If you do win the trip to the nationals there is usually enough money to cover expeses for the week and the great time that most people have while they are there competing on a national level.
If you want to make a living playing pool go pro and compete with the big boys/girls and the best of luck to you. I'll never be as good as Mika or Efren or Archer, but that isn't my goal in life. Pool is a past time, albeit one that consumes a lot of my time and disposable income. I spend my disposable income on pool related stuff not as an investment, expecting a return on the money spent, but because I enjoy playing and I wanted a Diamond table in my house and Simonis cloth and a couple of nice production cues and low deflection shafts, Aramith balls etc. etc. Without guys like me spending on a leasure activity, going to tounaments and league a couple nights a week most of the people posting here who actually make a living from pool would be doing something else to pay their bills.
I would prefer it if you just said thank you or nothing at all because without guys like me you might be in the unemployment line. In return I will say thank you to you for providing me with the stuff that makes my leasure time enjoyable, my life a little more pleasurable and a past time that is dynamic, challenging, (mentally and physically) and enriches my enjoyment of life itself...
League players are there for the spirited competition, the comradery of a team and many of the better players in the league (at least in my area) for the satisfaction of helping and watching the novice players get better. I get as much personal satisfaction out of helping a 3 make a difficult shot for the win than I do winning my own match.
If you go into a league expecting to get paid out you are going to be disappointed. That isn't what they are about. If you do win the trip to the nationals there is usually enough money to cover expeses for the week and the great time that most people have while they are there competing on a national level.
If you want to make a living playing pool go pro and compete with the big boys/girls and the best of luck to you. I'll never be as good as Mika or Efren or Archer, but that isn't my goal in life. Pool is a past time, albeit one that consumes a lot of my time and disposable income. I spend my disposable income on pool related stuff not as an investment, expecting a return on the money spent, but because I enjoy playing and I wanted a Diamond table in my house and Simonis cloth and a couple of nice production cues and low deflection shafts, Aramith balls etc. etc. Without guys like me spending on a leasure activity, going to tounaments and league a couple nights a week most of the people posting here who actually make a living from pool would be doing something else to pay their bills.
I would prefer it if you just said thank you or nothing at all because without guys like me you might be in the unemployment line. In return I will say thank you to you for providing me with the stuff that makes my leasure time enjoyable, my life a little more pleasurable and a past time that is dynamic, challenging, (mentally and physically) and enriches my enjoyment of life itself...