...and add to that, if Sam really believes that nobody in TAP leagues sandbags, he's as delusional as the OP...who thinks everybody does, and it's okay! 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
League: Play to keep rating low or go all out every game?
- Thread starter azbluemach1
- Start date
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! :grin: This is why, when I was an APA LO, I REQUIRED every team member both to know how, AND participate in match scorekeeping. What usually happens is that teams have "designated" scorekeepers, and wierdly they usually sit near each other, often asking "How many innings/defensive shots did you have for that last match?" Keep your own scoresheets people...it's correct scorekeeping that allows the handicap system to function properly.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
gpeezy
for sale!
i second this fo shizzle
After years of avoiding leagues like Kevin Trudeau merchandise, I joined a team in the local TAP league this session. The team that won the TAP team 8-ball national championship plays out of this room, and they are a good bunch of guys. I do believe sandbagging is quite prevalent, but I think everyone just accepts it as part of league play and doesn't let it bother them. As for myself, one of the conditions for my joining the team was that I could just play pool and not worry about innings or ball counts or whatever else goes into the calculation. In my case it didn't really matter, because I was going to hit 7 within a few weeks anyway, but even if I were a 4 I would not have tried to hold myself to a certain level.
It's bad enough without sandbagging, because the rankings only go to 7, which is not a high enough number to hinder a lot of players. We have several guys in our little league who are capable of going 2 or 3 weeks without missing a ball in their league matches. If a player of that caliber sandbags and holds himself to a 6, it's really bad for his opponents, who probably wouldn't be getting enough of a spot even if he were a 7. I understand that's just a limitation of the league, but I think people should play to the best of their ability and not make it any worse than it already is.
Aaron
It's bad enough without sandbagging, because the rankings only go to 7, which is not a high enough number to hinder a lot of players. We have several guys in our little league who are capable of going 2 or 3 weeks without missing a ball in their league matches. If a player of that caliber sandbags and holds himself to a 6, it's really bad for his opponents, who probably wouldn't be getting enough of a spot even if he were a 7. I understand that's just a limitation of the league, but I think people should play to the best of their ability and not make it any worse than it already is.
Aaron
You owe Justadub an apology . You're online now , & I've sent you a PM about this . . .
post up !
Many 'baggers are playing to win , too . . . they're just making it take a little longer !
You can beat your opponents just as badly ( and it frustrates them more ! ) by keeping them in jail all night . Plus , playing 'lock up' pool lets you make more shots , which equals more table time . . . .
'precision misses' , i.e. striking directly on the 'damm titty' are just as difficult as pocketing balls!
I'd rather be known as the guy that went home with the check . . . .
I've always played the best I can. Before moving south and playing in the APA, I played in pretty competitive 2 person in house leagues in Milwaukee, close to BCA format. My goal every session was to have the highest individual points, most break run outs, highest night, most perfect nights, etc., screw the handicap.
I must have played with 3 different partners over 6 - 8 years, typically 2 leagues in the fall and 2 in the spring, and in all of those matches we only got a spot one match, and that was one point... Typically we were giving up a medium amount of weight, and sometimes a ridiculous amount, but I think if you are the better player you should win regardless, and it should be tough and make you play better to win, that's the whole point of the handicapping systems, if they work right.
Scott
I must have played with 3 different partners over 6 - 8 years, typically 2 leagues in the fall and 2 in the spring, and in all of those matches we only got a spot one match, and that was one point... Typically we were giving up a medium amount of weight, and sometimes a ridiculous amount, but I think if you are the better player you should win regardless, and it should be tough and make you play better to win, that's the whole point of the handicapping systems, if they work right.
Scott
Play BCA and go all out everytime.
I actually don't mind playing sandbaggers. I figure this is my opportunity to try and play perfectly; run out when I can and play safe when I can't, regardless of how many games I am giving up.
If I lose, I don't complain because I should have played better regardless of their skill level, whether sandbagging or not.
However, that is just my opinion.
I'm not particularly concerned about an apology. It's really no skin off my teeth. I'm more amused by it than anything else.
Thanks, to you and LeagueGuy for saying it tho. (And anyone else who might have, I've forgotten the earlier part of the thread now.)
This issue really is how folks exaggerate sandbagging, in any league. It seems just a bit too easy to throw that out there, likely because someone lost and isn't happy about it. Yes, I'm not so naive as to think people don't cheat, because they certainly will. But the claims that "half the league is sandbagging" and "everyone in Vegas is a sandbagger, in order to get there" seem way too overblown.
my turn to say tap tap tap to you, and i dont mean the league either lol. yea there are people that will cheat to win. i agree that i dont think its as prevalent as some people claim.
i dont know a game or sport out there that does not have cheating going on in one form or another. why would you not expect to see it in pool?
there is always going to be some one that wants to win bad enough to cheat.
we dont live in a perfect world, do you expect every one in pool to act perfect? it would be nice to think that but if you did you are not facing reality.
I'm amazed that only 8-9% admit to regulating their rating yet from what I have seen roughly 25%+ people that play league are concerned about this.
I left league play after being demanded by my captain to slow down my speed. At least 4 of the people on the team were dumping shots with a free safety to extend the games and their rating.
I left league play after being demanded by my captain to slow down my speed. At least 4 of the people on the team were dumping shots with a free safety to extend the games and their rating.
To Justadub
To Justadub,
I did misread your post and I do apologize to you for that. You have to realize that everytime I post on here TAP's growth (about 2-3 times a year) I get attacked as you can see. And sometimes I do misread a few posts. Everytime I post people come out of the woodwork attacking TAP and demanding numbers, stats, etc. Why should I post them? They are going to twist it the way they want to see fit to their advantage. All I am saying is where TAP is available and that we are growing and to try us. If someone doesn't want to try TAP or like to see my posts on here then please go about your business and play in the league you decide but please show me the same respect and not attack TAP or myself. I have never came on here and started attacking people. I only try to defend TAP and myself when these attacks occur. I am sure this post will get some negative posts as well if past history proves to repeat....PS...Ridinda9...Next time when I get attacked, I expect apologies as well. But I am not holding my breath on it either.
To Justadub,
I did misread your post and I do apologize to you for that. You have to realize that everytime I post on here TAP's growth (about 2-3 times a year) I get attacked as you can see. And sometimes I do misread a few posts. Everytime I post people come out of the woodwork attacking TAP and demanding numbers, stats, etc. Why should I post them? They are going to twist it the way they want to see fit to their advantage. All I am saying is where TAP is available and that we are growing and to try us. If someone doesn't want to try TAP or like to see my posts on here then please go about your business and play in the league you decide but please show me the same respect and not attack TAP or myself. I have never came on here and started attacking people. I only try to defend TAP and myself when these attacks occur. I am sure this post will get some negative posts as well if past history proves to repeat....PS...Ridinda9...Next time when I get attacked, I expect apologies as well. But I am not holding my breath on it either.
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thank you for posting the apology to Justadub .
It was the hallmark of gentleman .
I'll turn you back to green as soon as vBulletin lets me ! (typically 48 hrs)
Don't worry, I'll fix it.
tough to sandbag when sporting no handicap, but as far as teams go... people just bring in subs to do the sandbagging for them.
does the handicap help you at state? You get these teams that do half way decent in league, but are going to get detroyed by the sandbaggers at state.
I guess my suggestion would be to play your own game and not worry about how other people are trying to manipulate the system.
does the handicap help you at state? You get these teams that do half way decent in league, but are going to get detroyed by the sandbaggers at state.
I guess my suggestion would be to play your own game and not worry about how other people are trying to manipulate the system.
I play Tap and have played APA in the past and can say that I play full out every time I am at the table. Do I ever see sandbagging yes of course I do. It is the nature of a system their are some people that will always try to find a loophole to give them an advantage be it pool or anything else out their. I do think that the percentage is not as high as most people suggest (it is usually just a sore loser who thinks they are better than they are or just someone of a lower rank on a good role or just naturally inproving his game.)
For the people that say just play BCA and don't worry about it I don't think that works for everyone. Most people just starting would be uncomfortable playing in a non handicaped league just as most 4 and 5 ranked players from Tap and APA don't want to go to BCA where they will probably lose 4 out of 5 weeks. While I am not sure of the last statement that is certainly the perception of myself and most people that play in handicap league that the competition is of a much higher level and a Tap or APA 4 and 5 could not be competitive on a weekly basis.
For the people that say just play BCA and don't worry about it I don't think that works for everyone. Most people just starting would be uncomfortable playing in a non handicaped league just as most 4 and 5 ranked players from Tap and APA don't want to go to BCA where they will probably lose 4 out of 5 weeks. While I am not sure of the last statement that is certainly the perception of myself and most people that play in handicap league that the competition is of a much higher level and a Tap or APA 4 and 5 could not be competitive on a weekly basis.