League Players

["CaliRed".]

> I have no problems with "league" players,so to speak. The only ones that fit into this generic description are the ones that have to hold things up by going for a beer in between shots,etc. To me,those people play in a league,rather than being a league PLAYER.

Most of the people I know that are players that play in the various league systems are not consumed by pool,but are hard-core hobbyists in a broad sense. They almost always work full-time,and usually in a decent to good paying job,are passionate about it,spend good money at it,are particular about their equipment as well as the tables,and most can run out at least occasionally,and can lay down some crafty moves if dedicated to learning,and most are. Some are QUITE strong as players,close to elite level in a couple cases. Unfortunately,none live in my area.

I love the competitive side of it,and the general idea of the various league systems. What I don't like is the sandbagging shit,whether it's the player laying down themselves,or players that allow themselves to be pressured into it,and people that put their players in spots like that. That is NOT intended to be confused with a player that takes coaching,just ones that are told to miss wide open shots with a runnable rack and do it.

What has always perplexed me is how disparate 2 players of same rating in same system can be depending on where they live and play.

For example,I have seen a female APA 3 that only ran 2 full racks in close to 40 games of 8-ball,but played safeties and took intentional fouls that had ME scratching my head at times. I've seen another female player that plays a typical bar player style based on pure offense. Sometimes,she runs out from the break,and is particularly effective at running out after her opponent misses,comes up dry,etc. She is a 6 in the league she plays in but couldn't beat the girl as a 3 in her league if they played long enough.

Another example,I've seen guys rated as the original poster's suggested APA 4 that might give me problems if I play a little off,due to their exp in tactical areas. I don't get to see a lot of the stuff they've been exposed to due to the fact that I've only got to play ball in hand 8 ball locally once in 15 years,LOL.

I've also seen guys rated as a 6/7 in that same format and as a 9 in 9 ball in their particular league that I've spotted and beat. I'm sure there are players that have maintained a 6/7 rating for years that I can't beat over the long haul,or would get weight from in their league system. Tommy D.

Tommy,

I'm sure you may make some good posts, but I'll never know, because you got to lose the italics and the colors before I'll ever attempt to read them. I've tried, but it's just too much work. When you use that formatting, it blends in all the words into one big blur. Additionally, a person cannot distinguish what part you're quoting and what part is your post.

Not sure why you have changed it to look like this.... you're limiting your audience. You may like the way it looks, but I"m pretty sure you're not writing your posts, just for you to re-read it on the forum.

Just throwing that out there for you to think about, if you care to. In the end, it's you're post and you can do whatever you want with it. I do like to read everyone's opinion on things, but I'm missing out on yours.:sorry:

Johnnyt - I agree that it's probably very difficult for many of us to watch matches that players cannot run 3 balls without hooking themselves or scratching or having no shape. It's downright brutal to watch. But I don't watch those matches simply because I don't enjoy them. Everyone starts somewhere and these people, for whatever their reason is, have dedicated their time and money to participate in this wonderful game of pocket billiards. Some may do it for a reason to get drunk, some may do it for the social aspect, some may do it because they love the game.

Regardless, many of these people may find that they really do love this game, to the point of where they become hooked on it and take it seriously to where they want to get much better at it. That's great! That same guy that can't run 3 balls, we might see in a couple of years playing against a pro in a local tournament and making a good show of it.

I can't stand leagues myself. Tried it a few times in my life, but I can't stand to be around pool tables for several hours and only play a few times. The biggest problem I had though, was that I did play at a different level as my team members did. It's hard for them to understand why I shoot a shot they way I chose to, when they would have just fired at it. They don't understand percentages, or the fact that if I made it, I would have been at a disadvantage. So, I just felt a big disconnect on their understanding of the game, versus mine.

But I went off and did my thing and they went off and did theirs. It's all good!

 

[justadub]

I think JohnnyT gets up in the morning and says to himself, "what kind of a thread can I start this morning to stir the $hit?"

I'm a league player, there are times when I can barely run three or four balls, and I'm having a blast playing pool. League pool, APA pool.

I spend money in my room. I buy equipment. I try my best to improve, studying online, with books, and playing the better players in my area. Oh yeah, I work full-time, married with two kids, so I can't go spend the hours of practice time (or heavens yes, traveling for professional lessons) required to be as good a player as JohnnyT.

Every time you spew out this kind of stuff, you sound like a grumpy old man. That's a shame, because maybe you aren't.

 

[sfleinen]

Tommy,

I'm sure you may make some good posts, but I'll never know, because you got to lose the italics and the colors before I'll ever attempt to read them. I've tried, but it's just too much work. When you use that formatting, it blends in all the words into one big blur. Additionally, a person cannot distinguish what part you're quoting and what part is your post.

Not sure why you have changed it to look like this.... you're limiting your audience. You may like the way it looks, but I"m pretty sure you're not writing your posts, just for you to re-read it on the forum.

Just throwing that out there for you to think about, if you care to. In the end, it's you're post and you can do whatever you want with it. I do like to read everyone's opinion on things, but I'm missing out on yours.:sorry:
[...]

I agree with this. Tommy, italics and bold are used only for emphasis on certain words or phrases. They're not intended to be used for the entire post. "But hey, my post is important above everyone else, and I WANT it to stand out!" The opposite actually happens; in fact, my personal initial reaction to Tommy's post was the Internet-classic "tl;dr" (teal deer). And no offense, I didn't either. I'm probably missing out, as well.

As for JT's comments about league'ers, the easiest thing to do would be to change the channel. Don't watch it if it's too painful. There are some pros I can't stand to watch -- in fact, they are so painful to watch that I'd RATHER watch league play. In these cases, I simply flip the channel -- watch something else.

Everyone has the right to play, and noone has the right to exact stipulations of privileges to play based on ability. If he/she likes doing it, so be it. Personally, I'm not fond of APA play (I agree it's painful to watch someone who can't make more than 3 balls in a row *on a barbox* no less), but at the same time, the league systems ARE keeping our sport alive and our poolrooms supplied with steady patrons on certain predictable nights. They do have value.

-Sean

 

[Maxx]

..... Now I see why they sell so many of those aiming systems........ Johnnyt

Johnnyt that's funny!

 

[Johnnyt]

You are all right. This was a bad post by me. It was meant as a joke after I watched a FEW APA players on the stream. I apologize to all league players and anyone I offended on AZ. Johnnyt

 

[cleary]

There is a reason the only people that have seen Johnnyt shoot are the AC repairman an UPS man...

Come to NYC and you got action with a whoooooooole lot of league players.

 

[chefjeff]

It's not where a player is, but what direction s/he's going, imho.

Jeff Livingston

 

[cleary]

I heard a story about AZ's own "Eric." was in florida once and wanted to drop by Johnnyt's place and play him some. Johnnyt didn't want any. Strange, Eric uses CTE so he must not play good...

 

[ctyhntr]

The APA 8-ball is a beginner-intermediate league. If you want to overlay the 9-ball ABCD scale, then anything less than a SL5 would fall under being a D, and it takes as little as a C-C+ to reach SL 7. Thats why the APA 9-ball league handicap stretch up to SL 9.

 

[jason]

There is a reason the only people that have seen Johnnyt shoot are the AC repairman an UPS man...

Come to NYC and you got action with a whoooooooole lot of league players.

I'll put my money on Johnny T!!!

 

[justadub]

You are all right. This was a bad post by me. It was meant as a joke after I watched a FEW APA players on the stream. I apologize to all league players and anyone I offended on AZ. Johnnyt

Thanks for coming back with that.

On my drive to work, I had a few other thoughts about the particular instance you wrote about.

I've read more than a few people here on AZB who are considered to be REALLY good players mention how playing on a TV table adds pressure to them and their game.

Imagine someone newer to the game playing in front of cameras, in front of who knows how many people watching online. Perhaps that added stress to the players you were watching...? I've seen players in my league, even on my team that have a hard time handling the pressure of playing in front of a bunch of people. The finals of our recent division championship, for example. A young man on my team who is clearly a better player than I, but struggled with 25 or 30 people watching him play, the only match going on in the whole place. That is different for many people, perhaps that is another consideration for the match you were watching.

 

[bboxgrinder]

HaHaHa thank you JohnnyT. This is definatly a good morning laugh for coffee. Nothing like covering yourself in honey & opening the APA nest to let out the worker bees.

 

[paksat]

I was watching some league play being streamed today for a few hours off and on. APA I think it was. I came away with one conclusion. Nobody should be allowed to play in any competition until they can run at least 4 balls in a row and have some idea where and how to get the CB there for the next shot. They must play the ghost by themselves until they can beat the 3-ball ghost. I have no idea what an APA 4 is in terms of A< B< C< D ratings, but if an APA 4 is= to a D player I must have been born a “C” player because I can’t ever remember playing that awful. Now I see why they sell so many of those aiming systems.

And for the people that say they are just playing for the fun of it or to socialize…I didn’t see that on their faces. What I saw for the most part was frustration on their faces because they kept missing balls 6 inches from the pocket or scratching every other time they made a ball. No wonder most league players don’t watch and don’t know the names of the top pro players. They couldn’t handle the truth. Sorry league players. I know there are some very good league players out there some where, I just have yet to see any for myself. Johnnyt

Come down here, i'll hook you up with a skill level 9 that can and has run 4 or 5 racks on a 9 footer.

There are some elite players in league, but like you say, it's not a fun night out with friends.. which is precisely why I quit playing.

People that on average run 1 ball an inning have no right to get mad or irritated anything pool related. Whether it be themselves, or whoever else is playing.

Most of them have no clue what real pool is about. I'm sure almost everyone here has seen the APA skill level 4 who thinks he's hot sh*t. Hell I remember playing in a tri-cup one time and what looked like a 4 and others were practicing. I asked if I could jump in the rotation and it was almost a smug nose-up-in-the-air reaction.

Just made me laugh really, pitiful.

 

[Eric.]

I heard a story about AZ's own "Eric." was in florida once and wanted to drop by Johnnyt's place and play him some. Johnnyt didn't want any. Strange, Eric uses CTE so he must not play good...

Oh man, why did you have to drag me into this.

I was in Tampa, Nov. of '09 and asked JohnnyT to play, since he was looking for mid level players to match up with. I was in town for an APA sponsored, league player(and non league player) tourney. JohnnyT did decline.

I do use CTE. I play league too.


Eric >damn you, Cleary

 

[Jimbojim]

While I think it was mean what JohnnyT said in his OP about league players who shouldn't be allowed to play in any competition, why do you guys feel the need to dare him into a gambling match? What makes you think that he wouldn't kick your asses?

I mean, yeah it wasn't a praising post and he apologized for it but in no way does it portray his skills at the table.

That's the way I see it. I'm pretty sure I can beat some of you here as I'm also pretty sure some of you will beat me...but I don't know who I'll beat or who will beat me because I have never played with any of you.

Please stop this "You said something inappropriate so I must be better than you and will prove it too for 2Ks" ego.

Sorry for rant but I mean it.

 

[cleary]

While I think it was mean what JohnnyT said in his OP about league players who shouldn't be allowed to play in any competition, why do you guys feel the need to dare him into a gambling match? What makes you think that he wouldn't kick your asses?

I mean, yeah it wasn't a praising post and he apologized for it but in no way does it portray his skills at the table.

That's the way I see it. I'm pretty sure I can beat some of you here as I'm also pretty sure some of you will beat me...but I don't know who I'll beat or who will beat me because I have never played with any of you.

Please stop this "You said something inappropriate so I must be better than you and will prove it too for 2Ks" ego.

Sorry for rant but I mean it.

I'll offer him a (almost) free roll, does that make you feel better? I'll put up 3 people that play in my league, he can pick which one he wants to play. He beat em in a race to 15 on a 9' table, I'll give him $1000. He loses, he buys me and the player dinner.

 

[D_Lewis]

While I think it was mean what JohnnyT said in his OP about league players who shouldn't be allowed to play in any competition

Please stop this "You said something inappropriate so I must be better than you and will prove it too for 2Ks" ego.

The fact people are irritated is because he is making it seem like he's better because they cant make 3 balls in a row.

I once said this at a regional tournament to a guy "Im not a better person than you because I can beat you at pool, I am a better person because you act like a douchebag"

He said something inappropriate when really he could have just sat there and thought to himself, "I really wish I was watching Efren instead of this" but he decided to say that league players (who happen to pay ALL of the pro player sponsorship money, really) have no business being in any competition.

Im a league player, its a night out with my friends and wife. I play horrible. This year I may just go play in the US Open because I want to. Then johnnyt can critique my (crappy) game possibly on the live stream there.

 

[RunoutJJ]

Im glad that ive grabbed 3 players (SL5-8) from my league and got them playing in tournaments around the DC/VA/MD area. They thought they were good until they got to play Mike Sigel (No idea who he was :lol and lost 9-3!!

Best part of it is that they got bit by the bug and love to play even if they are the weakest in the room. They want to grow as players and they understand the fact that they might get their asses kicked at $50 a throw. So what??? Theyu understand that thats how it works and you're not gonna win every match.

One of the guys is a SL5 and is so hungry to play he's playing 5 times a week!! So there is hope for the APA breeding such players but i wouldnt hold your breath. Im just glad to see some people wanting to get better and improve. Instead of trying to keep their rating the same or from going up That right there makes me-------------> :angry:

 

[MahnaMahna]

There is a reason the only people that have seen Johnnyt shoot are the AC repairman an UPS man...

Come to NYC and you got action with a whoooooooole lot of league players.

No, you are wrong. Big Johnny went out to a local bar one night a while back and ended the night with a punch to the mouth and a bill to have his dentures repaired.

 

[tank69]

Who are you to judge anyone's skill level? The fact that these leagues are getting players, beginners or not, is good for the sport and billiard community. Some of these people do play for fun, we have a "fun" leagues where our wives/girlfriends play and we have a blast. Catch me on my "serious" league night, you will spectate as I won't let you out of your seat! Don't judge any player by what you see in league and just be thankful there is a league and that more people are getting out to play.