Leagues: The fix

A

azbluemach1

Member
Since my league poll seemed to be a big hit, I bring you the B-side, how to fix any pool league in 3 easy steps:

1.) Tournament races are double. Yes, it will take longer, suck it up. More time to hang out with your buddies. Longer races will provide a more fair test. I don't care how long it takes, tournaments are for the cheese, and I want the best player to get it.

2.) Tournament results count for as much as an entire regular session. This way if someone "shows up" for the tournament and plays way over their level, they are snap adjusted for the next session and tournament (see 3).

3.) Tournament ratings shall be based on previous tournament results, not regular session results, with the exception of loss of appendages or eyes. This means you can't just 'Show up" for the tournament and then spend the entire next session "Managing your rating".

Obviously this lets new guys get one session in before the hammer gets put down on the sandbaggers, but after that sandbagging is pointless.

Discuss.
 
3 steps to fix the TAP league.

Step 1: Switch the T to a B. TAP ---> BAP

Step 2: Shift the A and P. BAP ---> BPA

Step 3: Switch the P for a C. BPA ---> BCA

Fixed~
 
Makes sense. Now I wish there was a 14.1 league in my area. I don't care for any of the available leagues around here. Just TAP and APA, 8 ball and 9 ball, for the most part, and I'm not fond of either game or either league. :help:
 
I play in two leagues VNEA and BCA. Both leagues run one long session per year 39 to 42 weeks.

The BCA league I play is not handicapped - everyone plays dead even. All teams get a payout with the better teams getting more money at the end of the year. The easy way to eliminate "sandbagging" or handicap manipulation is eliminate the handicaps. There is no tournament at the end of the year.

The VNEA league I play is handicapped. Your handicap is your points average per game (10 points if you win or a point for every ball you sink if you lose). If your team adds up everyone's point average per round and it equals 40 and the other teams average per round is 38 then you give up 2 points a round to the other team. A teams standing is based on the number of points your team receives over the entire season. As it is one long season, you can't lay back one session and come forward and steal the next one. Basically, if you sandbag all you do is slip farther back in the standings and the money at the end of the year. Also, there is NO tournament at the end of the year so how you perform in regular league is what you end up with at the end.

I personally like the idea of NO league tournaments. It offers too much of a opportunity for someone to cheat or come in and shoot WAY over their head for just that weekend. I feel that if a team digs them into a low standing in the league over several months they should not be allowed to pull a rabbit out of their hats during the end of session tournament.

If I want to play in a weekend tournament there are plenty of non-league events I can go play in if I like.

Just my 2 bits.
 
Celtic said:
3 steps to fix the TAP league.

Step 1: Switch the T to a B. TAP ---> BAP

Step 2: Shift the A and P. BAP ---> BPA

Step 3: Switch the P for a C. BPA ---> BCA

Fixed~
Click to expand...

i have played in bca, tap apa, in house money leagues and have seen players in all of them play below their speed. i do realize that every one can have a good or a bad night, but when tou play the same people 3 or 4 nights a week after 4 years you get a pretty good idea how they play. was playing bca 2 nights a week when our lo decided to have a money league one night a week. a bunch of my friends and i formed a team for that league. we were loaded , 4 7s, 2 6s and 1 level 5. we didnt worry about the 25 handicap because we knew we could out run th points we had to give up. well another team formed that had a bunch of players that everybody knew was under handicapped. we had to play each team 3 times then the top 4 would play in a playoff for the money.

we wound up in 1st place going into the playoffs , beating this under handicapped team i spoke of all 3 times we played them. they wound up 3rd.
in the playoffs we beat the 2nd place team and they beat the 4th place team. when we faced each other in the playoffs they reached their point level 2 balls into the 4 match. we played 5 man teams btw. you want to tell me they werent sandbaggin all season up till the playoffs?
 
Celtic said:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=196778&highlight=bcapl
Click to expand...

i remember that thread. just went and looked at it again.saw posts both for and against both leagues. so what ?

you want turn this thread into a league bashing thread also?

here we go.

apa.

23 rule. some people say its so you have to split up teams to gain more teams creating more revenue for apa. i and others say its to keep a bunch of 7s from winning every thing in sight.

slop. yea theres slop in 8 ball except on the 8. theres slop in both leagues in 9 ball . hell theres slop in 9 ball at the pro level.

those are the 2 issues you hear all the time with apa. you got anymore ?

bca.

ball in hand anywhere if your opponent scratches on the break. thats crap.

count points . why dont you just win matches like you do in apa or anywhere else for that matter?

open table after the break. oh i get it . say a solid falls and you arent a good enough player to make any solids left you get to take stripes. lol

whats the new rule this year? scrath on the 8 is not a loss or something like that? since i havent played it in a couple years because our lo here had pool and poker goin g on at the same time in the same pool hall with players playing in both at the same tome i got out of it. it went crazy. needless to say it aint hrer anymore.

bottom line . all leagues got pros and cons. any league is fun for me as long as its got a good lo and you dont have too many a**holes in the league.
 
IbeAnEngineer...Wow, that's a long league 'season' for VNEA. In Montana all the Valley leagues start in early Oct. and are done by mid-March, when they have the local tournaments to see who goes to Vegas. I think our sessions were 22 weeks, and the vendors were happy it only lasted that long! Go figure! They laughed at me, when I told them I was going run three APA sessions running 42 weeks...and that was putting $$$ into their tables, and into their pockets. You'd think they would have been happy...but nope. I never thought much of the VNEA 'handicap'. It never meant anything to the teams that would win, year after year (teams that I always played on too). In the 8 years that I played VNEA, we never lost a match because of giving up handicap points.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

IbeAnEngineer said:
I play in two leagues VNEA and BCA. Both leagues run one long session per year 39 to 42 weeks.
Click to expand...
 
lorider said:
i remember that thread. just went and looked at it again.saw posts both for and against both leagues. so what ?

you want turn this thread into a league bashing thread also?

here we go.

apa.

23 rule. some people say its so you have to split up teams to gain more teams creating more revenue for apa. i and others say its to keep a bunch of 7s from winning every thing in sight.

slop. yea theres slop in 8 ball except on the 8. theres slop in both leagues in 9 ball . hell theres slop in 9 ball at the pro level.

those are the 2 issues you hear all the time with apa. you got anymore ?

bca.

ball in hand anywhere if your opponent scratches on the break. thats crap.

count points . why dont you just win matches like you do in apa or anywhere else for that matter?

open table after the break. oh i get it . say a solid falls and you arent a good enough player to make any solids left you get to take stripes. lol

whats the new rule this year? scrath on the 8 is not a loss or something like that? since i havent played it in a couple years because our lo here had pool and poker goin g on at the same time in the same pool hall with players playing in both at the same tome i got out of it. it went crazy. needless to say it aint hrer anymore.

bottom line . all leagues got pros and cons. any league is fun for me as long as its got a good lo and you dont have too many a**holes in the league.
Click to expand...

Tap, tap, tap. :D

(And I don't mean the league. :p Said with tounge in cheek, for amusements sake. I think there's room for all the leagues, and they all have their pro's and con's. As long as everyone is having fun, and not cheating...)
 
lorider said:
bca.

<snip>

count points . why dont you just win matches like you do in apa or anywhere else for that matter?
Click to expand...

BCAPL tournaments are games won, not points. Team matches are a race to 13 games won. VNEA is points.

lorider said:
open table after the break. oh i get it . say a solid falls and you arent a good enough player to make any solids left you get to take stripes. lol
Click to expand...

Because pool needs more luck right? Now you need to hope that the correct ball goes down on the break?

I think you are in a severe minority if you think the table should not be open off the break.
 
justadub said:
Tap, tap, tap. :D

(And I don't mean the league. :p Said with tounge in cheek, for amusements sake. I think there's room for all the leagues, and they all have their pro's and con's. As long as everyone is having fun, and not cheating...)
Click to expand...

thanks dub. i dont like league bashing, like i said i can have fun in any league cuz im a fun loving guy that just likes to play pool lol.

when some one gets on that mine is better than yours thing i just gotta say it like i see it.
 
Scott,

Yep, it is a long session. The odd number was determined by having each team play each other the same number of times. You are correct, the handicap by points method does not often change who ends up winning a match. But what it does do is help the weaker teams stay competitive at the end with the points count as everything is based on that. With the long session the best teams always rise to the top. It does really come into play with the teams fighting it out at the bottom half of the standings.
 
azbluemach1 said:
Since my league poll seemed to be a big hit, I bring you the B-side, how to fix any pool league in 3 easy steps:

1.) Tournament races are double. Yes, it will take longer, suck it up. More time to hang out with your buddies. Longer races will provide a more fair test. I don't care how long it takes, tournaments are for the cheese, and I want the best player to get it.

2.) Tournament results count for as much as an entire regular session. This way if someone "shows up" for the tournament and plays way over their level, they are snap adjusted for the next session and tournament (see 3).

3.) Tournament ratings shall be based on previous tournament results, not regular session results, with the exception of loss of appendages or eyes. This means you can't just 'Show up" for the tournament and then spend the entire next session "Managing your rating".

Obviously this lets new guys get one session in before the hammer gets put down on the sandbaggers, but after that sandbagging is pointless.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

Here in Delaware it is APA. We had the state men's 8 ball championship a couple weeks ago. 50 players showed and the tourney ran on 6 valley boxes. The winner was decided on Sunday. It paid a whopping $260 for 1st place after 2 days of play (money rounds were on Sunday) It paid down to 5th place $60. It was modified single elimination, meaning everyone was guranteed 2 plays. I got through the double elim portion without a loss, and was eliminated just before the money round with only 1 loss Saturday night. $260 isn't much cheese for 2 day of play, doubling the race would just make it less worth the time and effort.

:cool:

Races have to be reasonable or you never get finished.
 
Just my 2 cents here.
Im from the Pittsburgh area and leagues are a 'big deal' around here. Being that there are only 2 decent pool rooms in (roughly) an 80 mile area, leagues are the only thing that some of the more serious shooters do to keep in stroke or keep an edge.
The rest of the league members are bar shooters.
What ruins the money leagues (mainly bar) in the area is the fact that the rules are vague and there is always...ALWAYS...someone that wants to dispute every rule in the book, regardless of what rules are instituted. I dont even want to start on the lack of etiquitte. Then the league heads get frustrated and dont want to enforce them.
The APA in the area is ok. Being that there are alot of bars involved in this too, there are alot of SL2-SL4 players. A handful of SL5 and SL6 players and even less than a handful of SL7 players. I am the only SL7 player in my division and i am basically playing everyone 5,6,or 7 -2. So its not alot of fun and sandbagging is rampant through SL4-5.
As far as a fix in leagues, if youre a good tournament/competitive shooter, or youre not standing to lose alot of money in them, take a league for what it is....competitve practice or a night out shooting.
 
azbluemach1 said:
Since my league poll seemed to be a big hit, I bring you the B-side, how to fix any pool league in 3 easy steps:

1.) Tournament races are double. Yes, it will take longer, suck it up. More time to hang out with your buddies. Longer races will provide a more fair test. I don't care how long it takes, tournaments are for the cheese, and I want the best player to get it.

2.) Tournament results count for as much as an entire regular session. This way if someone "shows up" for the tournament and plays way over their level, they are snap adjusted for the next session and tournament (see 3).

3.) Tournament ratings shall be based on previous tournament results, not regular session results, with the exception of loss of appendages or eyes. This means you can't just 'Show up" for the tournament and then spend the entire next session "Managing your rating".

Obviously this lets new guys get one session in before the hammer gets put down on the sandbaggers, but after that sandbagging is pointless.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

It's funny you should mention that. TAP now does something very similar - they've introduced a TOURNAMENT handicap, different from your regular league handicap. I can only assume that it is targeted at players who play at a much higher level in tournaments vs. league play. It is automatically calculated by the poolnet system that is used for tracking results and generating a handicap for players. Has pissed off a few players, but I think it's a pretty good idea.
 
MikeM said:
It's funny you should mention that. TAP now does something very similar - they've introduced a TOURNAMENT handicap, different from your regular league handicap. I can only assume that it is targeted at players who play at a much higher level in tournaments vs. league play. It is automatically calculated by the poolnet system that is used for tracking results and generating a handicap for players. Has pissed off a few players, but I think it's a pretty good idea.
Click to expand...

Thats quite ironic. The APA has had that system in place for a long time and yet people whine about things like that.

Just sayin

Leagueguy
 
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