Learn with an aiming system or not

[Fast Lenny]

I've seen you play under pressure for the gelt. You're a hitter, for sure
You know of what you speak and it is certainly a breath of fresh air in this aiming discussion place.
I agree with your posting......"live and let live" comes to mind.
Regards,
Flash

Thanks for the compliments. I don't play very often anymore with the having to take care of my 3 kiddos but at times I am capable of playing okay. I believe fundamentals which is something I need to work on really show under the heat. For the money or pressure situations can you keep still and execute is a question people need to ask themselves. Most don't even realize they are moving and squirming and shaking. This game is great, so many variables from mental to physical.

 

[KRJ]

I"m just curious how many folks spent money on CTE or had a lesson with Stan. I mean, surely, if you are this upset, you must be out cash or something?

I'm betting the folks that "dislike" the system the most are the ones that never spent a dime on it, or took any lessons with Stan.

Thus, because I"m assuming I'm right on the above statement, where are the hundreds of folks that did spent the money on the DVD, or did take a personal lesson with Stan.

How come they are not here ?

Just curious, cause it seems just a bit odd, no ?

 

[JoeyInCali]

In the interview after the first day, he said he was using CTE on nearly every shot.

https://youtu.be/rHUeoUkFh8o?t=1216

Oops, my bad.
Thanks.

 

[bstroud]

If it's the gold mine how come Bill Stroud isn't an elite player? See how that works.

Maybe better ways to do things have been created since the 60s. Pretty sure that snooker coaching methods have gone well beyond Joe Davis' advice since then.

Bill himself pioneered a lot of cue building methods since then....You probably have some x-rays of his construction methods.



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John,

When I was younger I played even with and beat players like Miz, Hopkins and many others but found there was no money in playing pool.

As a result I quit playing for 40 years to make cues.

However at 75 years old I will still play YOU even for everything you have.

You can use any aiming system you wish.

Bill S.

 

[JB Cases]

John,

When I was younger I played even with and beat players like Miz, Hopkins and many others but found there was no money in playing pool.

As a result I quit playing for 40 years to make cues.

However at 75 years old I will still play YOU even for everything you have.

You can use any aiming system you wish.

Bill S.

OK. Let's set it up. I can't bet everything I have but I will play you for a couple thousand. I will use all of the aiming systems

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[JoeyA]

edit

"How the cue ball arrives at the ghost ball position is what defines which aiming system/method is used." I like this a little better.

JoeyA

Dave, you are very wrong on this statement. What you stated is equivalent to saying that since all shots require an overlap of some amount of the cb to the ob, then all shots are really made using equal/opposite system, or are made using fractional systems, or are made using contact point to contact point systems.

That's just not true. If one is truly using ghost ball aiming, they are no longer even looking at the ob, but only aligning center cb to center ghost ball cb.

So, to say that since the cb has to end up in the ghost ball cb position, then it must be ghost ball aiming is just flat out wrong.

edit: How one arrives at the ghost ball position is what defines what aiming system/method they use. Not just the fact that they ended up at the same position no matter what system was used to get there.

 

[KRJ]

When Mosconi missed the 527th ball, he was heard muttering, " Damn, I had the wrong pivot!".

I think it was a miscue, so it was definitely the wrong chalk

 

[JB Cases]

Weren't you with Stan for two weeks before playing Lou?

Then came the match and you did not even use CTE most of the time.

Yes I was. I did use CTE almost every shot where I was shooting directly to a pocket and banking....But as I and everyone who promotes any aiming system has said endlessly a poor stroke will ruin any perfectly aimed shot. Plus I wasn't taking enough time to really be sure I picked the right aim all the time.

So that set was the perfect example of how having a good aiming system does NOT mean the shooter is guaranteed to play well. Just as I have said hundreds of times.



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[JB Cases]

I"m just curious how many folks spent money on CTE or had a lesson with Stan. I mean, surely, if you are this upset, you must be out cash or something?

I'm betting the folks that "dislike" the system the most are the ones that never spent a dime on it, or took any lessons with Stan.

Thus, because I"m assuming I'm right on the above statement, where are the hundreds of folks that did spent the money on the DVD, or did take a personal lesson with Stan.

How come they are not here ?

Just curious, cause it seems just a bit odd, no ?

Fully agree. The ones who have spent money with Stan usually give positive testimonials and then get told by the trolls here that they are delusional.

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[JB Cases]

I hate to plug my DVD with Rodney Morris but there is a section in there where Rodney explains his aiming system. Rodney pockets the ball as effortlessly as almost anyone at a fast pace so you cannot doubt his method even if it doesn't work for you.

Is it ghost ball? If not I will buy the DVD.

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[JB Cases]

John,

When I was younger I played even with and beat players like Miz, Hopkins and many others but found there was no money in playing pool.

As a result I quit playing for 40 years to make cues.

However at 75 years old I will still play YOU even for everything you have.

You can use any aiming system you wish.

Bill S.

Bill I believe you. Landon Shuffet at 18 plays as good as Mizerak did as far as I can tell. Which means he plays as good as you did.

Joe Davis' book didn't make you a great player. It gave you a foundation that you liked which you used while becoming a great player. Millions of others read the same book and did not become great players.

You absolutely misunderstood why I said what I said to Joey. The fractional overlap aiming system you use isn't what made you great. But it did give you something to use as a guide to help you with choosing the shot line. Thus we can conclude that it works well enough to build a world class game on.

Yet neither you nor anyone in your camp will give CTE the slightest credit for also being a solid foundation to build a world class game on even when shown a couple examples of players who have done it.



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[JB Cases]

I hate to plug my DVD with Rodney Morris but there is a section in there where Rodney explains his aiming system. Rodney pockets the ball as effortlessly as almost anyone at a fast pace so you cannot doubt his method even if it doesn't work for you.

Bought it. Oh, trust me the people here would doubt any method they don't agree with. One infamous troll even said if Willie Mosconi himself rose from the dead and endorsed CTE he would tell Willie to go back to sleep.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Thanks for the compliments. I don't play very often anymore with the having to take care of my 3 kiddos but at times I am capable of playing okay. I believe fundamentals which is something I need to work on really show under the heat. For the money or pressure situations can you keep still and execute is a question people need to ask themselves. Most don't even realize they are moving and squirming and shaking. This game is great, so many variables from mental to physical.

Even though I haven't seen you in several years Lenny, it has been great watching your improvement on the streams!..I would like to think maybe you learned a few things from
the old days, when I used to play you '9 to close'!

And obviously, playing with better players, like Scott and Bernie, has also given you a lot of valuable experience and confidence in your decisions (moves) playing one pocket! ..That means more than all the 'aiming' tricks you could ever learn!..'Fundamentals and feel', will always be where its at in pool! (don't listen to Barton!)

PS..Please tell Jimmy, and all the gang at Kolby's, I said hi! :thumbup:

 

[SJDinPHX]

Bought it. Oh, trust me the people here would doubt any method they don't agree with. One infamous troll even said if Willie Mosconi himself rose from the dead and endorsed CTE he would tell Willie to go back to sleep.

Wish I'd said that!..:thumbup: (Willie couldn't even spell a complex game, like 'one pocket')

 

[bstroud]

Bill I believe you. Landon Shuffet at 18 plays as good as Mizerak did as far as I can tell. Which means he plays as good as you did.

Joe Davis' book didn't make you a great player. It gave you a foundation that you liked which you used while becoming a great player. Millions of others read the same book and did not become great players.

You absolutely misunderstood why I said what I said to Joey. The fractional overlap aiming system you use isn't what made you great. But it did give you something to use as a guide to help you with choosing the shot line. Thus we can conclude that it works well enough to build a world class game on.

Yet neither you nor anyone in your camp will give CTE the slightest credit for also being a solid foundation to build a world class game on even when shown a couple examples of players who have done it.



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John,

I don't have any problem with CTE except that it seem too complicated.

Pool is tough enough without making it more complex than it needs to be.

Like most things in Life, simpler is better.

But if it works for you? Great.

From watching your video it looks to me that you need to work more on your fundamentals.

By the way I never considered myself a great player, I just beat a lot of them for money. I just never liked tournaments.

Bill S.

 

[duckie]

Bought it. Oh, trust me the people here would doubt any method they don't agree with. One infamous troll even said if Willie Mosconi himself rose from the dead and endorsed CTE he would tell Willie to go back to sleep.

Just because a celebrity endorses a product does not mean that product is worth a shit.

See it all the time on TV.

I was watching a vid of Mosconi describing aiming. Everything was ok till he said "2\3 ball hit" which is meaningless to me cause no such a thing exist just like there is no half ball hit.

What he did was a straight in shoot, then moved to CB to some cut angle and then said " Just aim 2/3 ball".

First, he never stated how he determined it was a 2/3 ball hit for this cut shot.

How can you determine if a cut shot is 1/2 a ball or maybe really 15/32 ball hit?

Or maybe really 19/32 ball hit?

Thinking in amount of ball hit is useless. If just adds a unnessary step in shot making.

What if you explain a cut shot to someone by using 1/2 ball hit terminology and they just go Huh?

Assuming everyone understands that concept and can or even wants to use it is a fault.

Got that 1/2 ball hit pic yet?

BTW, that's a fallacy of appeal to aurthority people do a lot thinking they are making a real point.

 

[duckie]

Maybe the Mosconi cup Team needs to learn CTE since it is such a precision system.

 

[JB Cases]

John,

I don't have any problem with CTE except that it seem too complicated.

Pool is tough enough without making it more complex than it needs to be.

Like most things in Life, simpler is better.

But if it works for you? Great.

From watching your video it looks to me that you need to work more on your fundamentals.

Bill S.

I know I need to work on my stroke. In fact I do work on it. But one thing plagues me and that is that my back is wrecked. I try hard to get into a nice low stance and stroke smoothly but my back spasms and so I instinctively stay at a position that doesn't hurt so much.

CTE isn't really complicated. It's just that the damn trolls on here (not you) have made it into their personal mission to ruin every discussion of it and turn them all into flamewars.

In practice it's so smooth and easy that no one even knows that the shooter is doing anything systematically. I posted the videos of Landon to show that clearly. He sights and gets down and shoots when he is ready.

It really bothers me that people try to point at me and say that CTE can't be great if I am not a world beater. I mean you know full well that one doesn't have to be a great cuemaker to use the best epoxy. But the best epoxy can't fix sloppy tolerances and uncured wood.

I know FOR SURE that if you spent a day with Stan you would come away with respect for CTE when you see it in action at a high level and understand how smoothly it goes when truly learned. People misunderstand the beginning very mechanical use of CTE as the way it always is used. But that's not the case. When the user becomes proficient all semblance of clunky mechanical movements are gone and what remains is a quick and efficient way to sight and align to the shot and move into the shooting position effortlessly. You rarely see a CTE user going down then up then down then up or agonizing over the aim.

You might not adopt it into your game, don't fix what isn't broken, but I am positive you would understand, when presented by a player whose skill you can respect, how effective it really is.

 

[one stroke]

Bill I believe you. Landon Shuffet at 18 plays as good as Mizerak did as far as I can tell. Which means he plays as good as you did.

Joe Davis' book didn't make you a great player. It gave you a foundation that you liked which you used while becoming a great player. Millions of others read the same book and did not become great players.

You absolutely misunderstood why I said what I said to Joey. The fractional overlap aiming system you use isn't what made you great. But it did give you something to use as a guide to help you with choosing the shot line. Thus we can conclude that it works well enough to build a world class game on.

Yet neither you nor anyone in your camp will give CTE the slightest credit for also being a solid foundation to build a world class game on even when shown a couple examples of players who have done it.



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Now he's as good as the Miz ROALMFAO put the pipe down and slowly back away

1

 

[JB Cases]

Just because a celebrity endorses a product does not mean that product is worth a shit.

See it all the time on TV.

I was watching a vid of Mosconi describing aiming. Everything was ok till he said "2\3 ball hit" which is meaningless to me cause no such a thing exist just like there is no half ball hit.

What he did was a straight in shoot, then moved to CB to some cut angle and then said " Just aim 2/3 ball".

First, he never stated how he determined it was a 2/3 ball hit for this cut shot.

How can you determine if a cut shot is 1/2 a ball or maybe really 15/32 ball hit?

Or maybe really 19/32 ball hit?

Thinking in amount of ball hit is useless. If just adds a unnessary step in shot making.

What if you explain a cut shot to someone by using 1/2 ball hit terminology and they just go Huh?

Assuming everyone understands that concept and can or even wants to use it is a fault.

Got that 1/2 ball hit pic yet?

BTW, that's a fallacy of appeal to aurthority people do a lot thinking they are making a real point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCmb5zkLQa0&t=4s

So Babe Cranfield can't be cited either for anything he endorsed as far as playing goes?

Even though he wrote this to introduce his book, by your logic we can't look to him for any authoritative advice.