Learn with an aiming system or not

Neil said:
The problem you have is the same problem that so many on the left have with Trump. You have taken a side where one hadn't even need take a side, and any time you hear the word CTE you go off into yet another rant.
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The fact that you think only the "left" has problems with Trump....tells me all I need to know :)

CTE. Make Aiming Great Again :)
 
JoeyInCali said:
When Mosconi missed the 527th ball, he was heard muttering, " Damn, I had the wrong pivot!".
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Ronnie O'Sullivan's 146 was because of a sweep left instead of right. He ended up making the pink instead. It's just that good of a system.
 
SJDinPHX said:
Golden Flush..Lenny's m'bud!..Unlike myself, he is a master of diplomacy!..He is just trying to avoid telling Barton, that he knows he is a complete, overstuffed know-it-all turkey!:p

PS..Good job Lendon!..JB doesn't suspect a thing..:cool: (he probably thinks you got smart, from watching his videos) ;)
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Funny because I have said the same thing long before Lenny said it.....In fact I have a video on it that I did five years ago.

https://youtu.be/KoQcHkU1Dzo

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Shawn Armstrong said:
His videos are awesome. He's got the voice of a prepubescent 15 year old boy. The stroke of an APA 3/4, and the rapier wit of Rain Man. "5 minutes to my next Internet argument".

I'm glad he thinks I'm stupid. I'd be scared, quite frankly, if he admired, or agreed with, me.
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I don't think you're stupid despite the evidence you continue to plant which would indicate so. I think you are simply malicious for sadistic reasons. One only needs to see your tone of address and continual name calling you display constantly to see this.

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Shawn Armstrong said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan's 146 was because of a sweep left instead of right. He ended up making the pink instead. It's just that good of a system.
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Yes that's right. When he learned CTE he started making 147s.....See I can make ridiculous red herring statements as well.

You all can't let it be can you? The premise of the thread is learn with an aiming system or not. Some said yes, some said no. Now you want to turn it into an attack on one particular method rather than simply giving your yes/no answer to the central question.

I mean you stated that you got a version of CTE directly from Hal Houle. So you must have called him which indicates some interest. You then shared those instructions with the rest of the world so you must not think it's bad for people to use. And by publishing the instructions you must know people will try to follow them.

So please explain to us why you are fighting so hard against those of us who prefer CTE as our primary way to aim? We have not said the things you claim we have. Hal gave you some of his time to teach you an aiming system which you passed on so why are you dishonoring him with your false comments?

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Shawn Armstrong said:
Yet that's how most of its proponents portray it. All of us "ghostballers" are using the wrong system, according to JB's YouTube page. We should all be learning and using CTE, because Stan and Landon could beat us all in a shotmaking contest.

Yet, in pool matches, the grand sensei of CTE, Stevie Moore, isn't a lock against people that don't use CTE. So....where's the motivation to learn something that, in real pool situations, doesn't prove to be any better than any other aiming system in revelant objective data?
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Never said that. In fact I say if it's not broke don't fix it quite often.

There are however lots of people who struggle with aiming who also know everything there is to know about ghost ball.

What do you say to them? Well nothing because you're not making videos to address the issue. Your assumption that ghost ball is enough for every player is simply wrong.

And now the bet:

I would bet up to $10,000 that we could find two Fargo Rate 500s who use no "branded" system to aim with....I.e. they both just eye it up and shoot.... And let one of them train with Stan Shuffet for one month and let the other one train with Lee Brett for one month and after that month the one under Stan will be the better shotmaker and player.

Stan's student will win shotmaking contests against Lee's student and will win races in any game chosen.

Both students will take an exam prior to the month and afterward to guage improvement. It will be assumed that each instructor will work with their student on every aspect they feel the student needs with Stan being required to teach CTE to his student and Brett being allowed to teach only ghost ball to his.

Would you like to take that bet?

Assuming that the two students don't play any games that are recorded in Fargo during that month their ratings should stay pretty much the same. They can then play 100 games against each other in 8 and 9 ball and put those results into Fargo to see what difference there is between them after that month of training.

Lee Brett and Stan Shuffet are likely about equally qualified to teach fundamentals. Lee leans more toward the snooker approach which should appease the snooker style is best crowd.

I know that no one is going to set this up or be willing to bet me on it but if it did happen it would be quite clear where the player using CTE would have a huge aiming advantage.

At least I am willing to bet 10k that I am right in this opinion.

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JoeyInCali said:
You're sitting on a gold mine and you're panning for lead in the ocean?
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If it's the gold mine how come Bill Stroud isn't an elite player? See how that works.

Maybe better ways to do things have been created since the 60s. Pretty sure that snooker coaching methods have gone well beyond Joe Davis' advice since then.

Bill himself pioneered a lot of cue building methods since then....You probably have some x-rays of his construction methods.



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Shawn Armstrong said:
The fact that you think only the "left" has problems with Trump....tells me all I need to know :)

CTE. Make Aiming Great Again :)
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Thanks for proving my point. You aren't interested in all the facts, just one or two possible facts, and then make your permanent decision.
 
JB Cases said:
If it's the gold mine how come Bill Stroud isn't an elite player? See how that works.

Maybe better ways to do things have been created since the 60s. Pretty sure that snooker coaching methods have gone well beyond Joe Davis' advice since then.

Bill himself pioneered a lot of cue building methods since then....You probably have some x-rays of his construction methods.



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I've kept exactly one copy of Smithsonian magazine, and it's the one that featured Bill Stroud's amazing work. If I remember correctly, the Smithsonian had an exhibition of the top cue artisans or something like that. I think he might have been one of the first "independent" builders to pioneer the use of CNC. I have to dig up the magazine, but it's one great read for anyone interested.
 
The cue that I designed and had Bill build, was his very first cue after he started using CNC. This was in 1983. BTW, I have that issue too! Great story.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

louieatienza said:
I've kept exactly one copy of Smithsonian magazine, and it's the one that featured Bill Stroud's amazing work. If I remember correctly, the Smithsonian had an exhibition of the top cue artisans or something like that. I think he might have been one of the first "independent" builders to pioneer the use of CNC. I have to dig up the magazine, but it's one great read for anyone interested.
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Y'all talk as if aiming systems are the same thing as tools in a tool box.

It's like a bad mechinic blaming the tool cause the bad mechinic can't figure out what's wrong.

Oh.......get that 1/2 ball hit pic yet?
 
JB Cases said:
Never said that. In fact I say if it's not broke don't fix it quite often.

There are however lots of people who struggle with aiming who also know everything there is to know about ghost ball.

What do you say to them? Well nothing because you're not making videos to address the issue. Your assumption that ghost ball is enough for every player is simply wrong.

And now the bet:

I would bet up to $10,000 that we could find two Fargo Rate 500s who use no "branded" system to aim with....I.e. they both just eye it up and shoot.... And let one of them train with Stan Shuffet for one month and let the other one train with Lee Brett for one month and after that month the one under Stan will be the better shotmaker and player.

Stan's student will win shotmaking contests against Lee's student and will win races in any game chosen.

Both students will take an exam prior to the month and afterward to guage improvement. It will be assumed that each instructor will work with their student on every aspect they feel the student needs with Stan being required to teach CTE to his student and Brett being allowed to teach only ghost ball to his.

Would you like to take that bet?

Assuming that the two students don't play any games that are recorded in Fargo during that month their ratings should stay pretty much the same. They can then play 100 games against each other in 8 and 9 ball and put those results into Fargo to see what difference there is between them after that month of training.

Lee Brett and Stan Shuffet are likely about equally qualified to teach fundamentals. Lee leans more toward the snooker approach which should appease the snooker style is best crowd.

I know that no one is going to set this up or be willing to bet me on it but if it did happen it would be quite clear where the player using CTE would have a huge aiming advantage.

At least I am willing to bet 10k that I am right in this opinion.
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John, when are you going to quit conjuring up hypothetical silly 'gambling wagers', that can never be consumated?..They always involve the time and efforts, of dozens of people you think are eager to prove or disprove, any of your wildest claims!....When are you going to learn? ..NOBODY CARES? (but you, and a few other 'disturbed' pool nuts!) :eek:

PS..Your time would be much better spent making new videos, on how even wild apes could easily be taught to use 'CTE'!..BTW, I would be willing to bet you 10K they can't! ;)
 
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JB Cases said:
Never said that. In fact I say if it's not broke don't fix it quite often.

There are however lots of people who struggle with aiming who also know everything there is to know about ghost ball.

What do you say to them? Well nothing because you're not making videos to address the issue. Your assumption that ghost ball is enough for every player is simply wrong.

And now the bet:

I would bet up to $10,000 that we could find two Fargo Rate 500s who use no "branded" system to aim with....I.e. they both just eye it up and shoot.... And let one of them train with Stan Shuffet for one month and let the other one train with Lee Brett for one month and after that month the one under Stan will be the better shotmaker and player.

Stan's student will win shotmaking contests against Lee's student and will win races in any game chosen.

Both students will take an exam prior to the month and afterward to guage improvement. It will be assumed that each instructor will work with their student on every aspect they feel the student needs with Stan being required to teach CTE to his student and Brett being allowed to teach only ghost ball to his.

Would you like to take that bet?

Assuming that the two students don't play any games that are recorded in Fargo during that month their ratings should stay pretty much the same. They can then play 100 games against each other in 8 and 9 ball and put those results into Fargo to see what difference there is between them after that month of training.

Lee Brett and Stan Shuffet are likely about equally qualified to teach fundamentals. Lee leans more toward the snooker approach which should appease the snooker style is best crowd.

I know that no one is going to set this up or be willing to bet me on it but if it did happen it would be quite clear where the player using CTE would have a huge aiming advantage.

At least I am willing to bet 10k that I am right in this opinion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
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Weren't you with Stan for two weeks before playing Lou?

Then came the match and you did not even use CTE most of the time.
 
I hate to plug my DVD with Rodney Morris but there is a section in there where Rodney explains his aiming system. Rodney pockets the ball as effortlessly as almost anyone at a fast pace so you cannot doubt his method even if it doesn't work for you. :)
 
Neil said:
dr_dave said:
... the form of ghost-ball aiming I demonstrate in the following video, where I show how to use the cue and visual indicators to target the center of the ghost-ball position:

NV D.9 - How to Aim Pool Shots - Ghostball Aiming System - from Vol-II of the BU instructional DVD series

However, I wanted to make the point that any "aiming system" that requires that you visualize where the CB must be at contact with the OB can be characterized as ghost-ball aiming.

If you aim by "seeing the angle" of the shot, you are visualizing where to send the CB to create the necessary cut angle for the shot. If you aim by visualizing the necessary point of contact, you are visualizing where to send the CB to create the necessary contact point on the OB. If you aim by visualizing the required amount of CB-OB overlap at contact, you are visualizing where the CB must be at contact to create the necessary ball-hit fraction.

With ghost ball aiming, you must visualize where the CB must be at contact with the OB to create the necessary cut angle, contact point, and ball overlap. You still must send the center of the CB to the center of the necessary ghost-ball position, but one doesn't need to focus strictly on the center of the ghost-ball position to accomplish this. As demonstrated in my video, one can focus on a spot on the OB or cloth or on a distance from an edge or on an amount of ball overlap.
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Dave, you are very wrong on this statement. What you stated is equivalent to saying that since all shots require an overlap of some amount of the cb to the ob, then all shots are really made using equal/opposite system, or are made using fractional systems, or are made using contact point to contact point systems.

That's just not true. If one is truly using ghost ball aiming, they are no longer even looking at the ob, but only aligning center cb to center ghost ball cb.

So, to say that since the cb has to end up in the ghost ball cb position, then it must be ghost ball aiming is just flat out wrong.

edit: How one arrives at the ghost ball position is what defines what aiming system/method they use. Not just the fact that they ended up at the same position no matter what system was used to get there.
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Neil,

Your points are well taken. Any effective aiming system must result in a line of aim that goes through the center of the required ghost-ball position. I just think that to visualize the angle of the shot or the contact point or the amount of ball-overlap, one is effectively visualizing where the CB must contact the OB. In other words, one is visualizing the required "ghost ball" position.

The method I demonstrate in the video of placing the tip and pivoting the cue is clearly a version of ghost-ball aiming. But the use of visual references (spots on balls or the cloth, distances from edges, amount of ball overlap), as also demonstrated in the video, can also be part of ghost-ball aiming. So one doesn't really need to aim at "an imaginary point in space" as some people suggest when attempting to ridicule ghost-ball aiming.

I still think most good players use a form of the DAM aiming and shooting system, where they use all visual information available to help visualize the line of aim through the center of the required ghost-ball position.

Regards,
Dave
 
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