Legal trickshot, physically possible?

iusedtoberich said:
Ok, I set it up again trying to get the exact ball positions from the FB video.

The first few shots are HARD, and legal. The CB goes on the expected legal path (not forward of the tangent line).

Then, I intentionally tried to double hit the CB. It took a bunch of tries, but 3 of the shots were "very close" to the FB video, with the CB going well forward of the tangent line, before coming back.

Sorry this video is longer, about 7 min, but it took a bunch of tries to get the double hit to work just right. You will see that when the "double hit" is "too much", the CB goes right in the side pocket. But when the double hit is "just right", the CB takes the path of the FB video.

I wish I had a piece of formica to lay on the table and see what would happen with significantly less friction, than even brand new cloth probalby.

The successful recreation of the FB video is at time stamp 3:12 (so-so), 6:10 (so-so), 6:40 (looks almost identical to me)

Enjoy:)

http://youtu.be/p5-yrxbSEaY
Click to expand...

I appreciate your experiments. Greenie for you.

Just curious, what kind of cue, shaft, and tip do you use in that video?
 
NervousNovice said:
I appreciate your experiments. Greenie for you.

Just curious, what kind of cue, shaft, and tip do you use in that video?
Click to expand...

You're welcome. I like these threads where we actually try shots much more than most of the other threads.

The cue is a Larry Vigus 60" cue, shaft is a custom matched by him Predator 314-2. Tip is whatever layered tip came with the shaft from predator.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Ok, I set it up again trying to get the exact ball positions from the FB video.

The first few shots are HARD, and legal. The CB goes on the expected legal path (not forward of the tangent line).

Then, I intentionally tried to double hit the CB. It took a bunch of tries, but 3 of the shots were "very close" to the FB video, with the CB going well forward of the tangent line, before coming back.

Sorry this video is longer, about 7 min, but it took a bunch of tries to get the double hit to work just right. You will see that when the "double hit" is "too much", the CB goes right in the side pocket. But when the double hit is "just right", the CB takes the path of the FB video.

I wish I had a piece of formica to lay on the table and see what would happen with significantly less friction, than even brand new cloth probalby.

The successful recreation of the FB video is at time stamp 3:12 (so-so), 6:10 (so-so), 6:40 (looks almost identical to me)

Enjoy:)

http://youtu.be/p5-yrxbSEaY
Click to expand...

Nice job malaka.
Nice job.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Thank you.
As I was shooting this, trying to get the hit just right, it reminded me of that double kiss bank I offered you 100 tries on 15 years ago. lol.
Click to expand...

You talking about the one i did in 3? LOL
Double kiss bank, the cue stick isn't hitting the cue twice though.
The cue BALL is hitting the object ball twice.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I think your question is a good one, but the "draw off a line of balls" shot isn't equivalent - the cue ball doesn't go forward in that shot.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Cue ball definitely goes forward.
How far depend on how many balls are lined up in front, but even with 4 or 5 it still goes forward? (I wouldnt try more) The less balls, the further it goes before the draw takes effect.
Only feels comfortable with 3 or 4 though. Any more then that and it feels like your shaft is gonna explode.
 

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SUPERSTAR said:
You talking about the one i did in 3? LOL

Double kiss bank, the cue stick isn't hitting the cue twice though.

The cue BALL is hitting the object ball twice.
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It was more like 15. lol. The part that reminded me was the double kiss (yours) was so good on the early shots that the ball banked to the short side of the pocket. That's when I knew I was done and it was just a matter of fine tuning. On my shots, the early double hit (fouls) were getting close, and I knew it was just a matter of time until I duplicated the FB shot.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Cue ball definitely goes forward.
How far depend on how many balls are lined up in front, but even with 4 or 5 it still goes forward? (I wouldnt try more) The less balls, the further it goes before the draw takes effect.
Only feels comfortable with 3 or 4 though. Any more then that and it feels like your shaft is gonna explode.
Click to expand...


Frozen ball reactions are different. I'm not versed enough to explain why, but i don't believe it's a foul if CB goes forward on that shot.

How do you hit it? Just straight draw? I don't know that trick shot.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Cue ball definitely goes forward.
How far depend on how many balls are lined up in front, but even with 4 or 5 it still goes forward? (I wouldnt try more) The less balls, the further it goes before the draw takes effect.
Only feels comfortable with 3 or 4 though. Any more then that and it feels like your shaft is gonna explode.
Click to expand...
OK, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about a shot without the CB frozen to the OBs.

Yes, it's well known that the CB goes forward when frozen to the OB, unlike when it isn't. But it's not equivalent to the shot in question (because of the frozen/not frozen difference).

You have to be especially careful not to double hit the CB with this shot - I think a "fouette" stroke is used (lots of side with the draw so the tip glances sideways out of the way).

pj
chgo

P.S. Is that a Z2 shaft?
 
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iusedtoberich said:
Frozen ball reactions are different. I'm not versed enough to explain why, but i don't believe it's a foul if CB goes forward on that shot.

How do you hit it? Just straight draw? I don't know that trick shot.
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Wow that shot is crazy. CB goes forward like 2 feet then comes racing back. Lol. I'll make a video later time to get out of the house. Lol
 
Pj did you notice on the screen shot you took of the fb video that the ob went in the left side of the pocket ? The angle from there is quite impossible. Those pockets are buckets and if he cut it to the other side I be able to imagine something like this happening.

You guys know when you jack up and shoot a shot with bottom fairly firm? The cue ball goes airborne and can jump past where the cue ball and object ball first hit and still draw back. A reaction very similar to the guy in the fb video can be achieved with slight elevation and a lot of cue speed but the object ball would need to be cut to the right side of the pocket.
 
iusedtoberich said:
It was more like 15. lol. The part that reminded me was the double kiss (yours) was so good on the early shots that the ball banked to the short side of the pocket. That's when I knew I was done and it was just a matter of fine tuning. On my shots, the early double hit (fouls) were getting close, and I knew it was just a matter of time until I duplicated the FB shot.
Click to expand...

Your right.
It was 3 when we gave the shoelicker 60 tries. HAHAHAHA!
 
iusedtoberich said:
Ok, I set it up again trying to get the exact ball positions from the FB video.

The first few shots are HARD, and legal. The CB goes on the expected legal path (not forward of the tangent line).

Then, I intentionally tried to double hit the CB. It took a bunch of tries, but 3 of the shots were "very close" to the FB video, with the CB going well forward of the tangent line, before coming back.

Sorry this video is longer, about 7 min, but it took a bunch of tries to get the double hit to work just right. You will see that when the "double hit" is "too much", the CB goes right in the side pocket. But when the double hit is "just right", the CB takes the path of the FB video.

I wish I had a piece of formica to lay on the table and see what would happen with significantly less friction, than even brand new cloth probalby.

The successful recreation of the FB video is at time stamp 3:12 (so-so), 6:10 (so-so), 6:40 (looks almost identical to me)

Enjoy:)

http://youtu.be/p5-yrxbSEaY
Click to expand...

:thumbup: now yesss, although you hit the rail, the shot was the same as the video
 
Mrdodd72 said:
The shot is hit so hard that it travels a few inches forward before the low/right English catches. This is not uncommon with hard and low English. That is why sometimes when the object ball is deep in the pocket, and people use extreme low to keep it from scratching, the cue ball slides right into the pocket, after the object ball, before the English takes. This guy is just taking advantage of this phenomenon. The "double" click people are hearing is the tip hitting the cue ball, then the cue ball hitting the object ball. This is because he hit it so hard. Great shot!
Click to expand...

Thank you for writing that. I agree with you and you save me a lot of typing. Aloha.

And I think the reason the tangent line looks skewed is because he is hitting the cue ball with so much right spin that it is "squirting" a bit to the left when it actually hits the object ball. He isn't hitting it exactly straight in either Once the cue ball has made the object ball and skewed a bit to the left, the extreme draw pulls the cue ball back into the rail. It still has enough right-hand english on it to reverse on the rail and spin into the second object ball. I think I can make it with a dozen tries or so.
 
Some thoughts:

A deliberate double hit to make this shot is EXTREMELY difficult to play with any control.

He was setting this shot up, to demonstrate an effect that he believed he had a good chance of pulling off.

That would be, drawing a heavier CB through the arc as seen.

His sloppy stroke and heaps of right english is enough to convince me that he neither intended a double hit, nor achieved one.

Colin
 
HawaiianEye said:
Thank you for writing that. I agree with you and you save me a lot of typing. Aloha.

And I think the reason the tangent line looks skewed is because he is hitting the cue ball with so much right spin that it is "squirting" a bit to the left when it actually hits the object ball. He isn't hitting it exactly straight in either Once the cue ball has made the object ball and skewed a bit to the left, the extreme draw pulls the cue ball back into the rail. It still has enough right-hand english on it to reverse on the rail and spin into the second object ball. I think I can make it with a dozen tries or so.
Click to expand...

I love bashing the balls, and have played thousands of power draw shots with heavy side english and have never seen an equal weight CB move significantly forward of the tangent line, unless accompanied with a significant jump into the air.

I have however played the type of shot in the video dozens of times using a heavier CB.

Colin
 
Wybrook said:
haha.. I will video me weighing the cue ball and object ball, then go directly to the shot setup without cuts..

I can't believe this shot is causing any kind of questioning...
Has no one played on new cloth before?
Click to expand...

Be sure you have the right English on it as well as he was clearly using that on this shot.

Yes, new cloth = more skid. More skid = more time on tangent line and longer for spin to take affect. I see neither of those in this video.
 
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Are we still discussing this shot? It is 100% a foul. My second video in this thread shows both foul and legal versions. Post #59.
 
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