Legend vs Young Gambler woofin over the use of a jump cue!

[8pack]

This really wasnt even about the jump cue it sounds like a excuse for jimmy not to play.To much beer, he new it .If the young player would of said alright i play you with out the jump cue jimmy would of come up with another
excuse not to play.Hes been there done that he,s no dummy.
The young guy should of played no matter what game jimmy came up with.
We would of heard more funny $hit.

 

[Realizm]

Now thats some funny stuff.
Jump or not to jump that is the question.

 

[Celtic]

Old people are always afraid of change. it's the way of the world. give it time they'll be gone soon enough

I am 33 years old and jump cues are idiotic gimmick pieces of equipment that destroy a huge amount of the shots that take a truly high level of skill to accomplish like a masse or a multiple rail kick with control.

That has been replaced with a goofy cue that Robin Dodson gives to a 5 year old in Vegas and has jumping full balls within 5 minutes. Skill my ass, jump cues are a crutch for guys with a lack of skill to do anything that takes more then 5 minutes for a 5 year old to master.

 

[cardiac kid]

Well........I have never seen Jimmy Mataya get in a game quietly. If you match up with him you had better be able to take the verbal abuse because you're gonna get it like it or not.

John,

All I can remember from my one and only meeting with JM was "I'm gonna play the two ball 'cause its the blue ball". Don't know why it sticks in my mind. That and the row of drinks on the ledge at 10 AM.

Watched him play a friend at the DCC a couple of years ago. Scott Smith was trying to get him and the Keither on a table. Keith had the flu and stayed in his room. Have to admit, it was some funny stuff. JM tried desparately to lose the match. Even three railed the cue ball to sink the set nine ball (he missed). The only one I remember not having a good time was Lyle Gay. He was still in a tournament one pocket match. He was as loud as JM. Wish I had spent more time on the tournament trail in the eighty's.

Lyn

 

[pool_rob9]

Seen that kind of argument too many times. He didn't want to play, just woof. Woof try to convince everyone the other guy's scared. If he agreed to no jump cue, it would have gone to something else, another possible excuse. If he wanted to play bad enough, he would have dropped that argument and tried to even it up another way. The jump cue is a classic red herring for a lot of guys.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

> I think I know who the young kid is,almost sure the older champion is Ray Martin or Ed Kelly,who was the other? Tommy D.

Tommy,
Ed Kelly and Ray Martin would never talk like that. Both far too classy. Neither travels all that much nowadays as far as I'm aware. My first guess being Alpena was Jimmy Mataya but I didn't hear his swagger and sing-song pitch elevation. I also thought it may have been Jimmy Marino, but again, he doesn't travel much now that I'm aware of. Marino won some Johnston City divisions in 1971.

I see from a later post somebody says it's Mataya. To me, that guy still doesn't sound like Mataya, but if he says it's him, then I believe him.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

The "Legend" is Jimmy Mataya and the "Young Gambler" is Lee Lambaria from Detroit/Flint. The story behind this is Lee had just snapped off the big 9-ball tourney with Earl, Corey, Charlie Bryant, Ronnie Wisemen and Jimmy in it, Johnny stayed in his room, so he was feeling pretty good about the way he was playin. He's a confident guy anyway, throw in the $1250/90 man event he had won minutes earlier, that's what you get. Lee has been around for a while, hardly a "young gun". Oh yeah, and Jimmy had about 58 Bud Lights before that. No harm no foul, good times.

The older fella being Mataya kind of surprises me. I've heard him woofing a lot and it's usually filled wityh lots of funny barbs. Not that this rant wasn't, but he seemed genuinely pi$$ed off! Jimmy Mataya was one rough character and it would not have surprised me one bit if I heard a "scuffle" in the audio that we listened to. That we did NOT made me think it wasn't Mataya! Thanks for the positive ID cause I was stumped.

"Pretty Boy Floyd" was always "entertaining"!

 

[JB Cases]

I am 33 years old and jump cues are idiotic gimmick pieces of equipment that destroy a huge amount of the shots that take a truly high level of skill to accomplish like a masse or a multiple rail kick with control.

That has been replaced with a goofy cue that Robin Dodson gives to a 5 year old in Vegas and has jumping full balls within 5 minutes. Skill my ass, jump cues are a crutch for guys with a lack of skill to do anything that takes more then 5 minutes for a 5 year old to master.

Wow Celtic, that sounds like a lot of pent up frustration.

Can I ask how the jump cue destroys the kick shot or the masse? I mean I watch high level pool a lot and I see kick shots way more than I see jump shots.

I suppose we could go to YouTube and check out the billiard club networks shows and count them but I am pretty sure I am right about this.

If you watch the Challenge of Champions match between Bustamante and Fong Pang Chao you will see that Chao comes with a freaking awesome jump shot with three balls left on the table to get out and win the match.

BUT before that he also won a pivotal game with an AMAZING masse-kick shot that brought the house down.

It's all part of the game man. It's just a stick, the operator is the one doing the shot. Without skill driving the cue then it's nothing.

 

[whoaaaa]

Well......of course I take the other side........I feel like the old guy should get with the program and use the new equipment.

I mean we aren't playing with maces on woven mats with bundled straw for bumpers. Imagine in Tennis if Jimmy Conners got up in Agassi's face and said he'd play but only if they used wooden racquets.

Can you see the dialog? "Listen punk, anyone can hit the ball 97 miles an hour with a graphite cyborg arm attached to your wrist, get your ass up there and do it with a piece of nature like we did it in my day.........."

The jump cue - here we go again - is a part of the modern game and has been for 20 years. It's stock equipment for anyone who wants to be part of pool now. If you don't want to use one and limit the amount of shots available to you then don't but don't seek to limit everyone else as well.

I mean imagine how it was when the guy with a cube of chalk showed up in town. All those great players who hadn't used chalk and didn't know how to use sidespin would have been *****ing about it. Look punk we play pool here without magic fairy dust on the ends of our cues and if you want to gamble with us then you have to go without it as well.

The "Twig" is a part of pool and has been for 20 years - get over it already.

AAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!!!

I didn't read this whole thread yet, but i'm sure there's a lot of back and forth. I am all for jump cues. I own one and I use it. Don't get me wrong, I rather kick at it if I can... I have more accuracy kicking then jumping by far. Jump cues are part of the game, like it or not.

 

[iwilleatyou]

100% Positive ID

The older fella being Mataya kind of surprises me. I've heard him woofing a lot and it's usually filled wityh lots of funny barbs. Not that this rant wasn't, but he seemed genuinely pi$$ed off! Jimmy Mataya was one rough character and it would not have surprised me one bit if I heard a "scuffle" in the audio that we listened to. That we did NOT made me think it wasn't Mataya! Thanks for the positive ID cause I was stumped.

"Pretty Boy Floyd" was always "entertaining"!

Yeah, I was there Thur thru Sun and Jimmy was there the whole time. It was him. Lee won't back down from anybody, either playin or woofing, you have to be that way in the Detroit/Flint area. Marc Hosler was on my team and anytime he talked the Jimmy it was "Yes Sir" or "No Sir", he knew what Jimmy had done and gave him his due respect. Charlie Bryant talked to him the same way. Another buddy has an awesome video of Jimmy dancing in the club with two beautiful women, that dude can flat dance, it's hilarious, I'll have him post it. You should have heard him going off about the measels cue ball, he said "I ain't now clown, gimmie a cue ball that's a cue ball". He gave the word "clown" that Mataya twang, it was awesome. I'll never forget hanging out with that dude in a bar in Alpena, MI.

P.S. There are probably 100 other posts on here about Jump Cues, go argue on those and leave this one to the people that want to talk about Jimmy, cause he is one cool dude, like him or not, you know he is in fact, a Legend.

 

[Tommy-D]

> I stand corrected . I just went from memory on who was World Champion in 1971 in the different games,and totally forgot about Mataya,LOL.

I thought the kid was Scooter or Tedder,and also thought I heard a 3rd voice in there somewhere.

Not that my opinion matters,but this is my spin on the subject matter of this pissing contest.

I was taught by Smokey Bartlett how to jump with a full cue,and on rubber backed/nappy bar table cloth or just nappy without the backing,I'm pretty much money jumping a full ball from 5-6". On Simonis or similar fast,thin cloth,my range moves out to 8-10".

I knew that jump cues existed,thanks to the Meucci trick shot video and Sammy Jones.

Early in my exposure to strong tournament competition I saw my opponents using them,and beating me with them. They were legal under the rules,but I was and still am kind of a purist,and didn't like them,but be DAMNED if my opponents were going to continue to use a skill I didn't have to beat me.

Smokey showed me how to use it,and WELL. It paid for itself 5X the first weekend I used it in competition. I still have the original tip on it.

I was forced to adapt,and glad I was smart enough to.

As long as a jump cue kinda-sorta resembles a cue,I see no problems with it.

The ones I had a problem with were the "tire-knocker" style. It was these things and a few others that caused the mid-90's bans at PBTA events. Tommy D.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[Tobby]

i want to add something to this.

Alot of you say the jump Cue has hurt pool or whatever BUT Infact it has HELPED pool because now those little JUNK Safes you might play and leave 3 or 4 inchs between a ball and the cue ball jsut wont work.
Now when your faced agisnt someone with a jump cue it forces you to freeze them up rock solid and acutally make a SOLID SAFE instead of jsut getting alittle distance between them.

And while we are going nuts about jump cues what about allowing me to jump with jsut my shaft because then you will really have to freeze me close because i have jumped a Bud longneck bottle from 1 chalk width away LOL.

Anyhwo i jsut wanted to toss that in and see what you guys think

 

[mikeyfrost]

i want to add something to this.

Alot of you say the jump Cue has hurt pool or whatever BUT Infact it has HELPED pool because now those little JUNK Safes you might play and leave 3 or 4 inchs between a ball and the cue ball jsut wont work.
Now when your faced agisnt someone with a jump cue it forces you to freeze them up rock solid and acutally make a SOLID SAFE instead of jsut getting alittle distance between them.

And while we are going nuts about jump cues what about allowing me to jump with jsut my shaft because then you will really have to freeze me close because i have jumped a Bud longneck bottle from 1 chalk width away LOL.

Anyhwo i jsut wanted to toss that in and see what you guys think

You could bust me on that. I'd bet really high against you being able to do that with any level of consistency.

 

[Pushout]

i want to add something to this.

Alot of you say the jump Cue has hurt pool or whatever BUT Infact it has HELPED pool because now those little JUNK Safes you might play and leave 3 or 4 inchs between a ball and the cue ball jsut wont work.
Now when your faced agisnt someone with a jump cue it forces you to freeze them up rock solid and acutally make a SOLID SAFE instead of jsut getting alittle distance between them.

And while we are going nuts about jump cues what about allowing me to jump with jsut my shaft because then you will really have to freeze me close because i have jumped a Bud longneck bottle from 1 chalk width away LOL.

Anyhwo i jsut wanted to toss that in and see what you guys think

And that helps pool how???

 

[Tobby]

LOL mikey i can teach you to jump that close and that high in a day or so not long now the being able to aim it takes ALOT longer .

Oh and i have had a few takers on jumping over the aluminum bud light bottles LOL.

Shaft jumping is fun when they allow it.

And it helps pool by making the guy have to play a GREAT Safe jsut like you have to make GREAT shots .

that was the way i inteneded this to be read sorry if i didnt get my thought across.

 

[Pushout]

And it helps pool by making the guy have to play a GREAT Safe jsut like you have to make GREAT shots .

that was the way i inteneded this to be read sorry if i didnt get my thought across.

You said that already. Jump shots/cues help you get out of a great safe. I believe that eventually the jump cue and jump shot both will be disallowed in all pool games. If that happens, I will then do my best to live the the chicken-s*it ball in hand anywhere rules. The more I see of the way 9 Ball is played today makes me want to play more Straight Pool and One Pocket, even Banks. I've said it before and I'll say it again, 9 Ball is a broken game.

 

[Celtic]

Wow Celtic, that sounds like a lot of pent up frustration.

Can I ask how the jump cue destroys the kick shot or the masse? I mean I watch high level pool a lot and I see kick shots way more than I see jump shots.

It must have been quite the day... sometimes I get up on the wrong side of the bed, I was on the attack that day.

I have seen WAY more jumps then multi rail kicks. Players today will take on a simple kick over a jump some of the time but as the kick gets harder the jump cue takes over. As for masse? I cannot really think of the last time I have seen one in pro competition do a masse shot, that is a shot that has virtually been removed from the game because almost always in a situation where the masse would have been the shot the short stick now is almost always prefferable.

And at the pro ranks at least guys still can kick, they are the elite pool players and have that skill so they can jump or kick, at the quality amature levels such as the open event in the BCA in Vegas the jumps far outweigh the kicks, people live and die by the jump cue in those short race 8-ball matches and the jump cue simply makes it too easy to escape a terrible shape play.

All of that said, many tournaments are now outlawing the jump cues from competition, and more and more this will be the case until I think at least at the professional ranks the jump cue will become a thing of the past, and IMO that will be for the betterment of the game.

 

[Celtic]

i want to add something to this.

Alot of you say the jump Cue has hurt pool or whatever BUT Infact it has HELPED pool because now those little JUNK Safes you might play and leave 3 or 4 inchs between a ball and the cue ball jsut wont work.
Now when your faced agisnt someone with a jump cue it forces you to freeze them up rock solid and acutally make a SOLID SAFE instead of jsut getting alittle distance between them.

That 3-4 inches was a fine safe before the jump cue, it made the incomming player kick or play a masse. The only reason you need to reeze the cueball to the blocker now is because of the jump cue in the first place. The jump cue itself is what changed a good safety to a crap safety because now there is a cue that simply pops a cueball over a full ball hook of a ball 3 inches away. When Earl was jumping with a full length cue he was not doing so on shots where the object ball blocker was 3 inches away, it was an impossible shot. They invented a cue that made a shot possible that was not possible before and they changed what was a good safety.

Saying someone played a crap safety if they had to play almost a stop shot to freeze the cueball behind the blocker? OK. The safety where a guy chips a ball, goes 3 rails, and behind cover only to leave 3 inches between him and the blocker and the incomming player just pulls out the jumper? There is no balance there.

 

[Celtic]

LOL mikey i can teach you to jump that close and that high in a day or so not long

^^^^^^^^That right there is what is wrong with jump cues^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks.