lenght of bridge

oshua86

oshua86

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What are your thoughts on the lenght of the bridge? (distance from hand to cue ball).

For the most part I see a lot of pros having the same bridge lenght on almost every shot and depending on how hard they need to hit the shot you can see they will only back stroke a certain lenght, if they need a full stroke then they will back stroke the full lenght of the bridge and then accelerate forward. But I have also seen where the bridge hand is adjusted in distance based on the shot itself, like a soft medium stroke a 4-6" bridge lenght, a medium-fast stroke 8-12 inches and everything in between.
 
oshua86...We teach our students to find their 'natural' bridge length, and then to figure out where their back hand should be on the cue, at ball address. They will use this same bridge length for a large majority of shots. Another difference that we teach, is a full natural slow backswing (regardless of how fast you're going to accelerate the cue forward), and a full forward stroke to their natural finish position. What changes is the forward stroke speed. This is for SOP shots, which are what we play 80-90% of the time). Naturally, when shooting some shots, you have to bridge up closer to the CB...sometimes only an inch or two away. Many players will lengthen their bridge a little when breaking, although it's not necessary.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
oshua86...We teach our students to find their 'natural' bridge length, and then to figure out where their back hand should be on the cue, at ball address. They will use this same bridge length for a large majority of shots. Another difference that we teach, is a full natural slow backswing (regardless of how fast you're going to accelerate the cue forward), and a full forward stroke to their natural finish position. What changes is the forward stroke speed. This is for SOP shots, which are what we play 80-90% of the time). Naturally, when shooting some shots, you have to bridge up closer to the CB...sometimes only an inch or two away. Many players will lengthen their bridge a little when breaking, although it's not necessary.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

And that is how Ive always shot, however my speed control is one of the things that has need the most control. Recently someone suggest to change the bridge distance slightly depending of the shot, it seems like it has worked real good in controlling my speed and staying in line since I can only speed up my forward stroke so much. I just dont know if there are any long term negatives sides to this technique. Ive seen a lot of matches of the old school players shoot and most of them had a 5-6" bridge for most shots, nowadays it looks like the standard is more like 10-12" any thoughts on that?
 
Scott Lee said:
oshua86...We teach our students to find their 'natural' bridge length, and then to figure out where their back hand should be on the cue, at ball address. They will use this same bridge length for a large majority of shots. Another difference that we teach, is a full natural slow backswing (regardless of how fast you're going to accelerate the cue forward), and a full forward stroke to their natural finish position. What changes is the forward stroke speed. This is for SOP shots, which are what we play 80-90% of the time). Naturally, when shooting some shots, you have to bridge up closer to the CB...sometimes only an inch or two away. Many players will lengthen their bridge a little when breaking, although it's not necessary.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Scott,
I remember reading an instructional article once that recommended a slightly shorter firmer bridge for power draw strokes. Does that make sense to you?
 
Most amateurs IMHO use too long a bridge because they see the pros going long. You need someone like Scott or me (or guided trial-and-error, it's no use to shorten the bridge without adjusting the feet and torso positions also) to find the right "natural length" of bridge.

I've written about this next part extensively at my site, but on those little nurse strokes and tiny little strokes, it's always wiser to have a very, very short bridge, then stroke "full" with the bridge hand naturally limiting the backstroke--and therefore the forward stroke--then to take a regular length bridge and try to stroke extra slow. Likewise, why take a 21-inch bridge when a 7-inch will score the ball and position the cue ball as well?

Pros use longer bridges 1) because we can successfully 2) to have a longer "sight" for aiming certain shots 3) sometimes because we're too lazy to reach for a mechanical bridge or stance accurately.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
Most amateurs IMHO use too long a bridge because they see the pros going long. You need someone like Scott or me (or guided trial-and-error, it's no use to shorten the bridge without adjusting the feet and torso positions also) to find the right "natural length" of bridge.

I've written about this next part extensively at my site, but on those little nurse strokes and tiny little strokes, it's always wiser to have a very, very short bridge, then stroke "full" with the bridge hand naturally limiting the backstroke--and therefore the forward stroke--then to take a regular length bridge and try to stroke extra slow. Likewise, why take a 21-inch bridge when a 7-inch will score the ball and position the cue ball as well?

Pros use longer bridges 1) because we can successfully 2) to have a longer "sight" for aiming certain shots 3) sometimes because we're too lazy to reach for a mechanical bridge or stance accurately.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this so much that I just banged my head on my monitor.

First of all, stop saying 'we' and 'pro' in the same sentence. Are you trying to imply that you're a pro player now? Pros don't use long bridges just because they can, or because they're lazy or because they stand wrong. What certain shots are you referring to?

Many players don't bring their cue all the way back to their hand for various reasons, and in most cases, it's perfectly fine.
 
oshua86 said:
What are your thoughts on the lenght of the bridge? (distance from hand to cue ball).

For the most part I see a lot of pros having the same bridge lenght on almost every shot and depending on how hard they need to hit the shot you can see they will only back stroke a certain lenght, if they need a full stroke then they will back stroke the full lenght of the bridge and then accelerate forward. But I have also seen where the bridge hand is adjusted in distance based on the shot itself, like a soft medium stroke a 4-6" bridge lenght, a medium-fast stroke 8-12 inches and everything in between.
Click to expand...

You're very observant and yes, you are right. They do both. They sometimes take shorter strokes with a longer bridge and they sometimes shorten their bridge length.

Players who stand low generally have longer bridge lengths. It allows them the distance they need from the cue ball to see it optimally. Also you will find that 9 and 10 ball players will tend to have longer bridge lengths as well. It's often difficult to stretch out into a long bridge length with all 15 balls on the table. There will often be an interfering ball somewhere. Also 9 and 10 ball players are making frequent big shots.

The older generation players from years ago used to recommend a 6-8 inch bridge length. Many of them used to stand tall to the table.

There is much that can be said about it, but to keep it short, keep observing the players and how and when they change their bridge lengths. You are obviously a very good observer.
 
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If I am allowed to express my opinion, I agree with Fran's post above.

I am a low head position player for most all shots except when the CB & OB are very close together, then I want to get my head high to see the space between the balls or when I have to 'jack up' for different reasons.

Fran is correct, IMHO, many times I could place my bridge hand on the table but choose to bridge farther back on the rail so that I can get my head even lower to sight a tight shot or because while bridgeing on the table between the ball & rail is availabe it would cause the butt of the cue to be more elevated than I might want for the shot so I bridge farther back on the rail or even beyond the rail. Then there are other times that I bridge very close to the CB for different reasons.

The point is playing pool is not playing baseball where one can get into the same hitting position all of the time. One has to be able to be effective while shooting from all different positions with all types & distances of bridge length. Some times by choice but some times by necessity.

Ms. Crimi is a 'player' & instructs from a player's perspective. She is also correct in recommending that you keep watching. I learnd almost all that I know about playing pool from observing very good players. Lessons were not as readily available as today. 'Players' like Fran were not giving lessons back in my day. They might give you a tip or two but for the most part one just had to figure it out their own. Now you can take full fledge lessons to speed up the learning process.

Best Wishes & Good Luck on Your Journey,
 
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row21097...It really depends on the player. I would definitely recommend a closed bridge for any power stroke, draw included. How the bridge length might change would certainly depend on the shot, imo. If there are no obstructions, and you're positioned correctly, I don't see why it would necessarily be an advantage to shorten up your bridge length, for a power draw shot.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

row21097 said:
Scott,
I remember reading an instructional article once that recommended a slightly shorter firmer bridge for power draw strokes. Does that make sense to you?
Click to expand...
 
oshua86...I think bridge length has gotten longer with more people playing 9 & 10 ball, like Fran said. The old school players that played mostly 14.1 rarely had to 'let their stroke out'...so a very short bridge was all they needed. Personally, I don't change my bridge length much, regardless of the game...naturally it depends on the shot, though. 10-12" seems pretty normal for a lot of students I work with. Like I said, it's more about finding your "natural" bridge length, than trying to copy something someone else does.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

oshua86 said:
And that is how Ive always shot, however my speed control is one of the things that has need the most control. Recently someone suggest to change the bridge distance slightly depending of the shot, it seems like it has worked real good in controlling my speed and staying in line since I can only speed up my forward stroke so much. I just dont know if there are any long term negatives sides to this technique. Ive seen a lot of matches of the old school players shoot and most of them had a 5-6" bridge for most shots, nowadays it looks like the standard is more like 10-12" any thoughts on that?
Click to expand...
 
I agree w/ Scott and Fran - bridge length depends on a lot of factors -- and stroking technique varies with all. I've seen short Filipinos who use crazy long bridges and taller people bridge right up to the CB.

I'll only add that some games favor longer/shorter bridge lengths. Shorter bridge lengths typically favor shorter position to the OB with less CB movement (1hole/14.1) with longer bridges (typically, not always) resulting in longer strokes for more power, more CB movement and area positioning.

It's rare to see a great 14.1 player with a huge bridge length because than FINE CB movement is so tough w/ a longer bridge. Conversely, it's just as rare to find a top elite 9ball player with a jam-tight bridge. Hopkins comes to mind, but there's always exceptions.

BilliardsAbout's assertion that pros use longer bridges because "they can" isn't correct. The progression to longer bridges is without a doubt an evolution resulting from rotation games becoming the core game of the professional level. If you look at playing styles back in the 40's/50's compared to today --- you'll see a more erect player with a much tighter bridge compared to someone with their chin on the cue with a 12" bridge. That's because when you are always shooting 2" shots and need to get EXACTLY HERE>>>>>> "X" on the table, that's the style that prevails. When you're shooting a 6'-long shot and need inside english to spin 3 rails to get to your next ball in rotation, evolution forces you in the opposite direction.

As I said--- there's always exceptions and individuals can't be used as an exception to "a whole." In conclusion, the core game of choice of an individual will influence a player's bridge length OVER TIME and as they develop as a player.
 
So it seems like a lot of it has to do with the evolution of the game/games. I used to try and play every shot at the same "bridge distance" like I mentioned before and I feel like it created two main problems for me. 1. Getting out of line by overhitting the cue ball, which in my opinion is not just my problem, all of us amateurs that play at a good B level or weak A that's the main problem, overrunning position with the cueball rather than being short. I might be wrong but that's kind of what I see. 2. Sometimes I'm down in a shot, everything is set, I bring back my arm and once I start accelerating I feel like it's gonna be too hard so I reduce the speed of the stroke, so it causes a desalerating stroke rather than an accelerating one, therefore a lot of times missing the shot horribly.

So on shots that don't required a full stroke (like Long shots that need speed or where you need to move the cueball several rails around the table) and you just need to move the cue ball just a little bit, at least for me it lets me have this feeling of "full stroke" and I can accelerate and follow throught properly, that's just because I can only bring the cue backwards so much before it pops out of my bridge hand....

I just don't seem to be able to get used to the way many pros do it and just bring the stroke back the right amount for the intended shot.
 
I would like to ask the professional instructors if they take into cosideration shaft deflection when determining a bridge length. How important is it???
 
Tennesseejoe said:
I would like to ask the professional instructors if they take into cosideration shaft deflection when determining a bridge length. How important is it???
Click to expand...

Not as important as finding our own personal template. I think what we are talking about here is our Standard (90%) Bridge length. All shafts have some form of deflection on every shot. Bridge lengths can be altered when certain shots are to be performed.

randyg
 
the length varies depending on the distance of the shot, and what you want to do with the shot. Likewise, your stance will vary with the length of the shot.

This is covered in my 2 hr. No Time For Negative dvd, which is for sale on ebay for $29.99.

Best of Luck !!!
 
FranCrimi said:
I disagree with this so much that I just banged my head on my monitor.

First of all, stop saying 'we' and 'pro' in the same sentence. Are you trying to imply that you're a pro player now? Pros don't use long bridges just because they can, or because they're lazy or because they stand wrong. What certain shots are you referring to?

Many players don't bring their cue all the way back to their hand for various reasons, and in most cases, it's perfectly fine.
Click to expand...

Sorry, semi-pro.

1) because we can successfully - you start brand new players who've never cued at a 12-14" bridge? - no you don't, no way.

2) to have a longer "sight" for aiming certain shots - you went on to post that you agreed with this point in principle - long bridge, better sighting (sounds like a Papa John's ad)

3) sometimes because we're too lazy to reach for a mechanical bridge or stance accurately - okay, pros are disclipined in this area not to be lazy

And, I will continue to contend that the average casual player or even reader of this forum likely has too long a bridge - and feel free to address the heart of the question that you raised yourself - WHY players used shorter bridges years ago - it's not just because they all stood upright - some of the oldie goldies got way the heck down there.

You're reminding me of the golf pro who says, "Watch and learn how to drive" and hits one 300 yards down the middle and now says, "You do it." You know it takes time and discipline for newer or less skilled players to lengthen their bridge more and more to break faster and more accurately. It takes a long time in some cases. But I guess everyone should use foot-long bridges in pool for most open shots because you or I might... the average player doesn't need to see better but stroke better - once they get their cue ball rolling straighter than can get lower and make a longer bridge (maybe) to do what you said.

I know I'm fighting against the current wave of reasoning among teachers. But everyone who is about a 7 APA or less whose bridge I've shortened has pocketed more balls immediately. Think about the angles a bit also - is it simpler to get the head and eyes closer to the ball with a longer or shorter bridge? We both know the shorter bridge (assumed at the table in a proper manner) brings their whole person a little closer to the action.

I doubt I'll reply to you on this again and sorry you hurt your head on your monitor. Maybe ask questions instead of assuming I'm wrong about everything and give me a chance to post further details...
 
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Matt...It's not about how long or short someone's bridge is (within reason)...it's about finding that person's "natural" bridge length...which fits their body style and structure (which then, in turn, shows a natural range of motion for them using a pendulum swing). The shooter will use that bridge length for often 80-90% of SOP shotmaking. SOP shots are ones we shoot where we have no obstructions, and use all of our natural features. We don't have to all agree, but this style of mearured learning has helped thousands of poolplayers, of all ability levels, play better immediately.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
Please understand. I do not advocate "shorter bridges" but take into the account the whole picture from body shape and size to finding the best stance and all of it for SOP. To be specific, I never tell people "shorten your bridge" unless I can also work with their feet and the rest of their stance at the same time.

And I'd agree with all of what you said but I'll ask, what percentage of players do you think have natural bridge lengths of say, 7, 9, 11 and 14 inches?

Thanks!
 
Just for consideration in the dicussion, what about the balance point of one's specific cue? Very rearward vs very forward balanced? The comfort or discomfort of such can subconsciously take one into one style or another if they are not conscious of that fact. For some, a cue change might be needed to bring in a comfort level for their 'best' set up of bridge length.
 
Scott Lee said:
Matt...It's not about how long or short someone's bridge is (within reason)...it's about finding that person's "natural" bridge length...which fits their body style and structure (which then, in turn, shows a natural range of motion for them using a pendulum swing). The shooter will use that bridge length for often 80-90% of SOP shotmaking. SOP shots are ones we shoot where we have no obstructions, and use all of our natural features. We don't have to all agree, but this style of mearured learning has helped thousands of poolplayers, of all ability levels, play better immediately.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Would the length of their forearm have anything to do with proper bridge length , Scott ?
 
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