We don't have pool instructors in Croatia :grin: :grin:
lessons yes or no
- Thread starter mvp
- Start date
Take the lessons, but take them from a BCA Certified Instructor. I just took a lesson from Scott Lee (who can be found right here on AzB) and it was fantastic.
An instructor can only show you the path to take. You are the one who has to walk it.
In other words, you have to practice. The instructor shows you the right things to practice. He doesn't have to be a world champion, just have knowledge, patience, an analytical mind, and clarity and variety in his explanations of the methods to correct and refine your technique.
Instead of complaining about the hourly rate, contemplate how much it will cost in time and frustration if you practice the wrong things.:grin:
And as for the money, for some of us, the instructor is only part of the cost. There is travel, accommodation and meals. If you have a competent instructor handy you are getting a bargain.
So - to answer the question "Am I wrong?" - Yes you are:grin:
The flip side - you won't learn anything from someone you don't respect. So maybe you must have a world champion. This one goes for $200/hr
http://cliffthorburn.ca/mentoring/private.html
This one charges for 117.50 pounds/hr
http://www.terrygriffithssnooker.com/snooker-training/one-to-one-coaching.aspx
In other words, you have to practice. The instructor shows you the right things to practice. He doesn't have to be a world champion, just have knowledge, patience, an analytical mind, and clarity and variety in his explanations of the methods to correct and refine your technique.
Instead of complaining about the hourly rate, contemplate how much it will cost in time and frustration if you practice the wrong things.:grin:
And as for the money, for some of us, the instructor is only part of the cost. There is travel, accommodation and meals. If you have a competent instructor handy you are getting a bargain.
So - to answer the question "Am I wrong?" - Yes you are:grin:
The flip side - you won't learn anything from someone you don't respect. So maybe you must have a world champion. This one goes for $200/hr
http://cliffthorburn.ca/mentoring/private.html
This one charges for 117.50 pounds/hr
http://www.terrygriffithssnooker.com/snooker-training/one-to-one-coaching.aspx
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I charge $35 per lesson if you also purchase my book, RIGHT ON CUE, for the one time cost of $15.
I teach, everything I do, as far as fundamentals go. Then I work on your break. After that I go over all the different type shots. Then I work on your strategies playing the different type games.
I'm not a certified instructor. I'm not knocking them, I'm just not one of them.
I've played at every level in the game. I was three time New England Champion in the eighties and I played and beat some world champions. I feel I have the credentials to teach.
The reason I don't charge a lot is, I'm retired and I don't make a living teaching. If I did, I would have to charge more. Money spent learning more about the game, is money well spent.
Take lessons, avoid years of frustration.
__________________________________
http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
I teach, everything I do, as far as fundamentals go. Then I work on your break. After that I go over all the different type shots. Then I work on your strategies playing the different type games.
I'm not a certified instructor. I'm not knocking them, I'm just not one of them.
I've played at every level in the game. I was three time New England Champion in the eighties and I played and beat some world champions. I feel I have the credentials to teach.
The reason I don't charge a lot is, I'm retired and I don't make a living teaching. If I did, I would have to charge more. Money spent learning more about the game, is money well spent.
Take lessons, avoid years of frustration.
__________________________________
http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
mvp,
Though your theory means that you need a young instructor that still plays regularly; I do agree that a great instructor needs to have played at a decent pro level to know what it takes to get someone else there. As pool has little financial reward even for the elite champion players; it will be quite difficult for you to find someone who teaches well (which also requires some work and dedication to develop) and still plays at a top professional level (though I'm thinking John Schmidt might be an exception...most players are not rocket scientists, but John has a very nice analytical approach to the game)
Mark Wilson (also in the Great Corn Forest of Illinois) has played on 2 Mosconi Cup teams (sinking the winning 9-ball in the very first Mosconi Cup). Though he retired many years ago from full time tournament play to completely commit to teaching (and is sought out by many professional players for tune-ups); I'm quite doubtful you could beat him in a set of anything (at least I never have...damn...).
Though physical ailments have stopped Jerry Briesath's competitive play, I believe he has run more 100's than you have hairs on your head. Both of these men have dedicated their entire lives to pool; they know what it takes to gain proficiency ( a long and arduous process, make NO mistake).
If you are really serious about pool (remains to be seen), the cost of the lessons is NOTHING compared to what you will spend to learn such an extremely difficult game. Lessons are much more likely to reduce the eventual cost of becoming a proficient player.
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To put it really simply, a professional player plays the game at the highest level.
A professional instructor TEACHES the game at the highest level.
Do you want to play, or do you want to learn?
I will readily admit that I am not a world class player. But one question I always ask my students is how did they hear about me. One recent student told me that he had approached a professional player who actually gives lessons. That player, when hearing this potential student's skill level and goals, recommended he contact me. Do you think this pro knows the difference between a professional player and a professional instructor?
If your goal is to learn something, find someone who can teach it to you.
Steve
A professional instructor TEACHES the game at the highest level.
Do you want to play, or do you want to learn?
I will readily admit that I am not a world class player. But one question I always ask my students is how did they hear about me. One recent student told me that he had approached a professional player who actually gives lessons. That player, when hearing this potential student's skill level and goals, recommended he contact me. Do you think this pro knows the difference between a professional player and a professional instructor?
If your goal is to learn something, find someone who can teach it to you.
Steve
Like most things, you get what you pay for. An individualized pool lesson is definitely money well spent.
FYI, you should check out the following:
Regards,
Dave
teach
When my martial arts school was open I taught many students to be better fighters than me.
When my martial arts school was open I taught many students to be better fighters than me.
I've only had 5 or 6 formal lessons in my life, but they came later on, after I could already play pretty well. It was well worth the time and cost. Those lessons gave me tools which resulted in many years of things to practice and improved my consistency quite a bit.
Every player, regardless of level, should intellingently seek lessons or coaching from experienced, qualified instructors if their goal is to improve.
The goal at first is to get your fundamentals right. This is 90% of your learning curve right there. Why? A qualified, trained coach or instructor can spot deficiencies right away. These will slow your ability to progress at the game.
Beginnining and Intermediate Players should look for a qualified instructor who is well versed in the fundamentals of stance, bridge and stroke. They also should be well versed on position play and strategies.
An advanced player should look for a qualified instuctor who also has has open class competitve experience and credentials or has coached a pro caliber player. The instructor should have a vast knowledge of all aspects of the game. They should also seek coaches who offer specilalized lessons, like safety play, break shot, one pocket strategies, etc.
The reason why I was saying players at all levels can benefit from lessons is because once a player get to an advanced or expert level, it's hard to get much better, so you pick up small things here and there to become more consistent.
Chris
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I developed a tremor in my grip hand about 10 years ago. I first noticed it playing Patcheye some one-pocket. Along with that and the fact that I love teaching is the major reason for dormancy in my competition game.
I am 60 now and I still play some and it sounds as though you are close enough to where we could play. Just let me know, I have a 9 footer and I will guarantee you that you can win enough to cover lessons (10 Ball). And, Landon beats me, so you can play him some sets as well.......I taught him CTE.
He will play you some $200 sets of 10 ball.
In meantime, should you get CTE lessons, it's likely you will see a way that you'll significantly improve your game in many areas.
Stan Shuffett
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Honestly it realy depends on what you are trying to do.Are you trying to learn aiming,english,ect., or are you trying to get back in stroke.When I started playing again after 16 years I couldnt figure out what I was doing wrong.My buddy Robb Saez watched me for about ten minutes.We adjusted my stance and he noticed I was looking at the cue ball last.We corrected these things and I got in some cheap action and started playing a ball better than I had when I played every day.
If you already have th
good lucke fundementals you may just need a quick adjustment.If not lessons are probably worth the money for a couple sessions atleast.Becuase all the practice in the world doesnt help if your practicing wrong.
If you already have th
good lucke fundementals you may just need a quick adjustment.If not lessons are probably worth the money for a couple sessions atleast.Becuase all the practice in the world doesnt help if your practicing wrong.
I have taken several lessons from a pro player (60 bucks). Though this was an hourly rate, we usually went over until he was sure I understood that part of the lessson.
I took lessons from Pool School, which was expensive, but worth it. Do I believe the coach has to outplay the student? no. Have I improved from these lesson? yes
Often during the lesson I would learn a couple of "gems" that were invaluable. These alone often made the lesson worth the cash.
For me, it is about the drills I learned that made these lessons worth while. They have improved my ball pocketing ability as well as cue ball control. Before I would just "hit balls" to practice. Now I have specific drills, and the results of these drills are measured. They show the strong and weak parts of my game (of course I work more on the weak points to try and get them up to par).
I took lessons from Pool School, which was expensive, but worth it. Do I believe the coach has to outplay the student? no. Have I improved from these lesson? yes
Often during the lesson I would learn a couple of "gems" that were invaluable. These alone often made the lesson worth the cash.
For me, it is about the drills I learned that made these lessons worth while. They have improved my ball pocketing ability as well as cue ball control. Before I would just "hit balls" to practice. Now I have specific drills, and the results of these drills are measured. They show the strong and weak parts of my game (of course I work more on the weak points to try and get them up to par).
I think the best way to decrease anyone's learning curve is to take lessons. I also think it pays to take good lessons, as you will get much more out of them. I have taken two lessons. At one, the instructor said my stroke was good, and just went over shot patterns. At the other, my stroke was video analysed and disected, small improvements were made, and a template was created to help me tell on every stroke I took duriong drills if I was accomplishing that same stroke, and if not, what was wrong. the second gave me detailed handouts and a video after. Judge for yourself which led me to being a better player. The first was $35 hour, the second was $75. I am sure it is not always a get what youpay for thing, but at the same time, I would gladly pay for a really good instructor for the increased value. The bottom line, however, is that someone else that is knowledgeable about any game or sport and can see what you are doing can help you improve a lot faster than you would if you just practiced on your own.
Pool takes a lot of practice time to become good at it. I may take a lot of lessons and learn a lot about how a sroke should look and how patterns should be run, but if I do not practice it a lot, I won't be a great player. A lot of very good instructors have children and jobs. If they spend all of their time teaching the game, they may not get as much to practice their own. While I do think they should be able to play at a certain level, as understanding often comes frmo feeling something happen, I don't think they need to be a world beater.
Pool takes a lot of practice time to become good at it. I may take a lot of lessons and learn a lot about how a sroke should look and how patterns should be run, but if I do not practice it a lot, I won't be a great player. A lot of very good instructors have children and jobs. If they spend all of their time teaching the game, they may not get as much to practice their own. While I do think they should be able to play at a certain level, as understanding often comes frmo feeling something happen, I don't think they need to be a world beater.
I don't think an instructor has to necessarily be better than the student, but I also think that someone who charges for lessons should have been an A player or better at some point in their life. Why? Because how can you teach something that you can't figure out yourself? Its not like its all that difficult to become an A player if you have the correct knowledge, which an instructor should have.
I take lessons from Dan Louie former world nine ball champion for a mere $60 and hour and 90 percent of the time we spend running racks of nine ball and eight ball with him telling me what shot selection and what english to use and it is unbelievably valuable. I was league MVP in my BCA league but even still I was wrong on what I thought I should do in my patterns and shot selection. Dan always asks what I would do then he will give another option and then he explains why it might be better and I of course realize why his choice is better and then I run the racks out. I think this is where he would be a much better instructor than a lot of Non-world beating instructors. I don't think they have his knowledge and creativity and experience in this area that he does.
There is a difference between a instructor and a coach. A instructor is someone you go to learn how to do something. A coach is someone that travels with you to observe your playing to help you over a long periond of time to improve.
A coach doesn't necessary need to be a strong player but someone that understand the workings of the game and can see what you are doing right and wrong to give you proper feedback.
As an example, I raced motorcycles for a awhile. My wife was my pit crew and eyes while I was on the track. After one practice session, she asked why I was slowing down more than the other racers in a certain corner. To me, it didn't seem that way. Next time out, I used that feedback and improved my speed through that corner.
Now, she has never been on the track, rode on the street a short time and that was her experince. Yet she gave me great advice. She couldn't tell me how to get my speed up tho.
I'd suggest finding a coach. Forget instructors.
Lessons ---> Yes unless you play as good as you want to play already, if that is the case just keep on keeping on.
Who teaches golf that can beat Tiger. Still he has a coach or is working on getting one, whoever he has or gets. I am sure Tiger can play rings around them. You would do well to have some help that is if you are capable of learning from others, I am sure somepeople have to figure it out for themselves and I think that will take longer than getting lessons.
It sound to me like if you decide to take lessons you need to pick someone who you can respect enough to give credence to what they teach. They are out there such as Stan S, Mark W, Scott Lee, Dan L, David Sapolis, Ray Martin (Blackjack) and Jerry B all great choices, I have been able to get some time from all of them except Dan over the years. They all teach well and all have their own style. I only wish I could afford to have a coach vs getting lesson for a few hours. The instructor vs the coach is 2 entirely different things. I know a real good coach for a few months would skyrocket your route to improvement, I do not see many pool coaches there are deinitely more instructors than coaches.
Sounds like you play already. If you are close to Stan go play him some and then take some lessons. I know more than a few Top Pros have taken lessons and they have been happy with the results. Especially Stevie and Greta along with others some have come from the other side of the world.
As to the cost, how much is knowledge worth. It will last a lifetime and save you some time or elevate you to the next level and beyond.
If you do get some lessons please post back the results and if you percieve you got your moneys worth. I think more than one of the above teachers offered me my money back if I did not think I got my value of their lesson. I got value for my money and I am glad I took the time to upgrade my game.
Good luck
Who teaches golf that can beat Tiger. Still he has a coach or is working on getting one, whoever he has or gets. I am sure Tiger can play rings around them. You would do well to have some help that is if you are capable of learning from others, I am sure somepeople have to figure it out for themselves and I think that will take longer than getting lessons.
It sound to me like if you decide to take lessons you need to pick someone who you can respect enough to give credence to what they teach. They are out there such as Stan S, Mark W, Scott Lee, Dan L, David Sapolis, Ray Martin (Blackjack) and Jerry B all great choices, I have been able to get some time from all of them except Dan over the years. They all teach well and all have their own style. I only wish I could afford to have a coach vs getting lesson for a few hours. The instructor vs the coach is 2 entirely different things. I know a real good coach for a few months would skyrocket your route to improvement, I do not see many pool coaches there are deinitely more instructors than coaches.
Sounds like you play already. If you are close to Stan go play him some and then take some lessons. I know more than a few Top Pros have taken lessons and they have been happy with the results. Especially Stevie and Greta along with others some have come from the other side of the world.
As to the cost, how much is knowledge worth. It will last a lifetime and save you some time or elevate you to the next level and beyond.
If you do get some lessons please post back the results and if you percieve you got your moneys worth. I think more than one of the above teachers offered me my money back if I did not think I got my value of their lesson. I got value for my money and I am glad I took the time to upgrade my game.
Good luck
I'm not a instructor, but professional instructors have a service to sell that makes it what the market will bear. People who don't like lessons because of the cost should realize they spend far more money trying to figure it out. Unless your somebody who can devote a lot of time with quality players to learn from lessons are cheaper in the long run.
Quality lessons are worth the money. The problem is how much do you spend before you find that person? Be careful before you spend. Its not the wasted money that bugs me its the wasted time chasing something that doesn't work. Find a instructor tell them you'll pay for 1/2 an hour (instead of the usual hour). If their instruction "clicks" for you you'll want to pay their price for a series of lessons.
I'm a recreational player with local tournament experience, but less than 20 minutes with Scott Lee on fundamentals improved my game. And yes I was one of those people who thought I knew all that was worth knowing about fundamentals.
Lessons yes or no
I am afraid you were offended by my statement when I would not have said it about you at all. I have heard nothing but good things about your ability to teach and I have seen what a fine player your son is, I can't beat either one of you, The person I referred to is probably a fine teacher but I would never be able to get past the fact that I don't think he can play any better than me. Thats my problem. I would like to take some lessons if you would be willing, I will PM you and hopefully we can work out something.
I apologise if you thought I was talking about all teachers, I was not.
I am afraid you were offended by my statement when I would not have said it about you at all. I have heard nothing but good things about your ability to teach and I have seen what a fine player your son is, I can't beat either one of you, The person I referred to is probably a fine teacher but I would never be able to get past the fact that I don't think he can play any better than me. Thats my problem. I would like to take some lessons if you would be willing, I will PM you and hopefully we can work out something.