Live Stream Improvements

[mikeyfrost]

I might just be a different kind of guy but a commentator telling me what I already know is boring. Talk about the games but you don't need a play by play on every shot. Once an out becomes simple I like when people use that time to tell stories or interact with the chat. What's the point of having the chat if the guy talking doesn't ever acknowledge it?

No thanks for streaming to turn into a bad ESPN Classic re-run. If you have a huge audience it becomes rough to talk to everyone but in small ball streaming I almost feel obligated to talk to everyone as best as possible. Keep a score updated saves a lot of headaches for sure. I'll put it this way if I can watch the same stream on two different sites. One set of commentators is giving the play by play and ignoring the chat but the other is not calling every single shot but is interacting I would go with the latter option.

Depends on a person's definition of entertainment.

 

[JoeyA]

i object to your point that someone can just turn off the volume if they don't want to hear the bad commentary. I wish i could. But having the volume and chat on is the only way to get details about the score, the players and the tournament. (i don't fault the free streamers for scoring and info problems because it's free.) But i still want to know. So that's why i have to listen and watch the chat.

I found the pool streaming community a year or so ago and was pleasantly surprised. I'm still thankful that it's available. yesterday i couled see earl, hillbilly, bowman, putnam and John S. What a deal. I wouldn't have thought that possible.

but don't dare complain cause the inbred moderator squad will jump in and tell you to mute it. I would but as explained above i can't. Seems to me the streaming crowd is too quick to pat themselves on the back rather then contemplate improvements.

to me the biggest problem with the free streams are the same people show up in the chat and they spend most of their time talking with each other and the commentator. the commentator likes his buddies so they go back and forth and any seriousness on the match is lost. jesus John S and Putnam were playing the final last night and you'd never know it by listening to the commentator. that happens to different degrees at all the free chats. I'd like to see more respect for the players.

also there are a lot of false claims as far as viewers are concerned. Dwight kept saying he had 3000 viewers. basic internet knowledge will tell you that most of those people were usstream passer bys not people looking for pool. and as there was never more than 100 folks watching they obviously didn't stick around when they found out what it was,.

still it's worth it to me to watch some great pool players despite the commentary.but that's happening less often. and some of the PPV stuff has been good. everyone can stream now. so eventually someone will put together a good package and understand that catering to the old inside pool crowd won't get them to where they want to go - a successful business model.

WOW!

While your criticism is pretty strong, I left all of your comments in tact because they all warrant consideration.

Without improvements, pool Live Streaming will stagnate and may become just another medium that is ignored instead of appreciated.

Most of the Live Streamers are under-paid and over-worked and some of the styles out there reflect this, however commentators, live streamers and everyone else involved in the the Live Stream including Sponsors need to look at the way these Live Streams are perceived and produced and make efforts to evolve and improve the quality of the product, so that greater benefits can be derived from the target audience. Only then will the numbers grow and only then can sponsors/advertisers get better return on their investments. In defense of some of the commentators, when you get tired, you start slipping. Fatigue plays a big part in the quality of what you talk about. I also think that the live streamers who are doing it all feel a little bent out of shape when they aren't getting paid what they should be paid and then people start criticizing their stream. They take it personal and sometimes feel insulted. I understand how they might feel that way but sometimes the best ideas come from the target audience.

JoeyA

 

[Hidy Ho]

Well, I hope you are up for constructive criticism. Otherwise, how would it improve?



I think you missed his point , without funding there will be no improvement , for your part it is free. They don't need constructive criticism yest they need funding , then competition will cause improvement.

How is funding going to help with things outside their control such as internet connection at the venue where they are streaming?

I re-read Lenny's post (since I missed his point) .. where did he ask for funding?

 

[Perk]

If I want to chat I chat. 80% of chat room is complaining most times and its tiresome to filter to read the other 20%, so I dont bother. When I actually watch the streams I am using a full screen mode most of the time similar to watching tv.

I would like to see better scoring updates on the screen and a scrolling information banner that answers the questions that seem to get asked over and over, so I dont have to read the chat at all.

As far as commentary goes, I really think it depends on the type of stream. Action room I like unorganized comments, stories, action, and some results. If its a more of a tourney stream then I like commentary regarding the match and would like to be current with other matches going on during that tournament.

 

[oldzilla]

i object to your point that someone can just turn off the volume if they don't want to hear the bad commentary. I wish i could. But having the volume and chat on is the only way to get details about the score, the players and the tournament. (i don't fault the free streamers for scoring and info problems because it's free.) But i still want to know. So that's why i have to listen and watch the chat.

I found the pool streaming community a year or so ago and was pleasantly surprised. I'm still thankful that it's available. yesterday i couled see earl, hillbilly, bowman, putnam and John S. What a deal. I wouldn't have thought that possible.

but don't dare complain cause the inbred moderator squad will jump in and tell you to mute it. I would but as explained above i can't. Seems to me the streaming crowd is too quick to pat themselves on the back rather then contemplate improvements.

to me the biggest problem with the free streams are the same people show up in the chat and they spend most of their time talking with each other and the commentator. the commentator likes his buddies so they go back and forth and any seriousness on the match is lost. jesus John S and Putnam were playing the final last night and you'd never know it by listening to the commentator. that happens to different degrees at all the free chats. I'd like to see more respect for the players.

also there are a lot of false claims as far as viewers are concerned. Dwight kept saying he had 3000 viewers. basic internet knowledge will tell you that most of those people were usstream passer bys not people looking for pool. and as there was never more than 100 folks watching they obviously didn't stick around when they found out what it was,.

still it's worth it to me to watch some great pool players despite the commentary.but that's happening less often. and some of the PPV stuff has been good. everyone can stream now. so eventually someone will put together a good package and understand that catering to the old inside pool crowd won't get them to where they want to go - a successful business model.

this is a very good thread Joey. alot of great points and views. but this guy i do not understand at all. the first time i seen him in a chat room i got the impression he is going to make trouble. as time went by i could see he actually had some interest in the game but yet i did not know why. it seemed like he was not enjoying what he was seeing beside being rude to the chatters and moderators. he stays just inside the boundries of being social but i am glad there are not many like him !

 

[SouthernDraw]

REality TV

TAR's format is down-to-earth, real life (poolroom) real life. I have always thought that if someone went to a poolroom and met the personalities, they would be hooked, like myself. TAR is Reality TV. And it could work on late night tv. It would also benefit the sport. Because there are no other intriguing people in the world to be around.

 

[david(tx)]

How is funding going to help with things outside their control such as internet connection at the venue where they are streaming?

I re-read Lenny's post (since I missed his point) .. where did he ask for funding?

You stated you would like a feature that would allow for score updates , thats a piece of hardware , it costs money. Quality cameras cost money , updating features cost money.

Putting on a timely event requires a helper , if not volunteers they cost money. I see RV's with small dishes that are receiving satellite feeds , streamers could hook up the same way with a van and satellite internet connection which COULD be more consistent.

These cost money.





To be quite frank no one wants to hear a bunch of complaining when people are spending there time and money to bring you something for nothing. I have to deal with an internet connection that is half as good as the one in my own home to stream with. I have had some sponsor help and a good deal of fan support which I am grateful for. I think the free streamers should be commended most certainly, I like how people complain about streams that cost them nothing, if it sucks then turn it off, if you paid for it and it sucks well that is another story.


If pool had money in it then you could have a few good paying sponsors to make the venture profitable with top of the line equipment, travel and expenses paid for and a payed crew but then again if pool had money in it then the major tournaments would be live on ESPN and not on Ustream




This is from Lenny's initial post in the thread where he alludes to funding.

 

[oldzilla]

If I want to chat I chat. 80% of chat room is complaining most times and its tiresome to filter to read the other 20%, so I dont bother. When I actually watch the streams I am using a full screen mode most of the time similar to watching tv.

I would like to see better scoring updates on the screen and a scrolling information banner that answers the questions that seem to get asked over and over, so I dont have to read the chat at all.

As far as commentary goes, I really think it depends on the type of stream. Action room I like unorganized comments, stories, action, and some results. If its a more of a tourney stream then I like commentary regarding the match and would like to be current with other matches going on during that tournament.

i know what you mean. alot of times it gets out of hand. mostly when it gets so busy questions go buy without notice so they repost and clutter up more. people panic , get all on edge, start throwing bricks and then you got a mess.

to eliminate some of the confusion the basic info should be posted up for all to see. such as event info, players currently playing, and a scoreboard. that answers alot of the chatters FAQ's

 

[oldzilla]

at this time i want to give a big shout out to the chatters at accustats game show. they are the best most fun to be with group in all the chats i have been part of. it may be just the nature of the show. after all it is more about having fun then serious competition so......


btw, i do enjoy alot of chatrooms.
i'm not putting any down at all.

 

[Hidy Ho]

You stated you would like a feature that would allow for score updates , thats a piece of hardware , it costs money. Quality cameras cost money , updating features cost money.

Putting on a timely event requires a helper , if not volunteers they cost money. I see RV's with small dishes that are receiving satellite feeds , streamers could hook up the same way with a van and satellite internet connection which COULD be more consistent.

These cost money.





To be quite frank no one wants to hear a bunch of complaining when people are spending there time and money to bring you something for nothing. I have to deal with an internet connection that is half as good as the one in my own home to stream with. I have had some sponsor help and a good deal of fan support which I am grateful for. I think the free streamers should be commended most certainly, I like how people complain about streams that cost them nothing, if it sucks then turn it off, if you paid for it and it sucks well that is another story.


If pool had money in it then you could have a few good paying sponsors to make the venture profitable with top of the line equipment, travel and expenses paid for and a payed crew but then again if pool had money in it then the major tournaments would be live on ESPN and not on Ustream




This is from Lenny's initial post in the thread where he alludes to funding.

Wow, I' sorry ... I didn't know you were an expert in Streaming business. I'm not .. I've never streamed and don't know squat about what's required to put on out so I'll cut my loss here and keep my mouth shut.

However, I will let you know next time I get confused by Lenny's post and miss the point again (what will be very soon on both count!) :grin-square:

 

[Matt90]

the truth will set you free

i object to your point that someone can just turn off the volume if they don't want to hear the bad commentary. I wish i could. But having the volume and chat on is the only way to get details about the score, the players and the tournament. (i don't fault the free streamers for scoring and info problems because it's free.) But i still want to know. So that's why i have to listen and watch the chat.

I found the pool streaming community a year or so ago and was pleasantly surprised. I'm still thankful that it's available. yesterday i couled see earl, hillbilly, bowman, putnam and John S. What a deal. I wouldn't have thought that possible.

but don't dare complain cause the inbred moderator squad will jump in and tell you to mute it. I would but as explained above i can't. Seems to me the streaming crowd is too quick to pat themselves on the back rather then contemplate improvements.

to me the biggest problem with the free streams are the same people show up in the chat and they spend most of their time talking with each other and the commentator. the commentator likes his buddies so they go back and forth and any seriousness on the match is lost. jesus John S and Putnam were playing the final last night and you'd never know it by listening to the commentator. that happens to different degrees at all the free chats. I'd like to see more respect for the players.

also there are a lot of false claims as far as viewers are concerned. Dwight kept saying he had 3000 viewers. basic internet knowledge will tell you that most of those people were usstream passer bys not people looking for pool. and as there was never more than 100 folks watching they obviously didn't stick around when they found out what it was,.

still it's worth it to me to watch some great pool players despite the commentary.but that's happening less often. and some of the PPV stuff has been good. everyone can stream now. so eventually someone will put together a good package and understand that catering to the old inside pool crowd won't get them to where they want to go - a successful business model.

I like it when people say what they think and get to the root of whats going on....God knows I gotta go do that tonight (face to face.....at a church) it's
not always easy to take or deliver.
In my experience live streaming (pool) as a streamer I felt about as appreciated as a cap on a spray paint can. It was nice that I was there but not really needed . Alot and I mean ALOT would have to change before you could in REALITY call a major company and explain to them that you have
X amount of viewers and you would like to advertise for them .X would need to take those 100-1000 viewers (REAL VIEWERS) and turn that into about 10,000-20,000 solid .That may in REALITY never happen to pool because its
just us players and pool nuts watching.
After doing my 18 month + tour of streaming I was really glad when like the prodigal son I came to myself and realized it was ALOT of fun but would not
ever pay the bills.So just for today I have to live in that reality . Also a GOOD
friend called me on my B.S. and told me I really wanted to play more and it was just less work staying behind the camera ......lol.
If anyone needs some really NEEDED help with video quality I can consult in that area at least .....for a small fee.Just wanted to chime in as I don't post
much anymore .My hats off to those who stream ....it's basically a labor of love .Honestly most of us here in the USA do it the lazy way ....it really needs
better commentary without distraction of a chat and to be re-encoded much like what Cue Sport TV does in europe.That does take ALOT more work but the end result is FAR more watchable and would drum up more viewers than just us die hard pool nuts .I had planed on doing that for a prominent tour this year but they only offered me half of what I wanted so now they get to live in that reality . Best to All
Matt

 

[Richardson]

As another poster stated. I watch streams on a 65" TV in full screen mode. I would like a banner with some important messages from time to time. A nice scoring update on the screen.

Also when i am chatting answer the questions. I don't need to know how you think so and so is gonna run out 3wide open balls.

The people who watch streams are some what knowledgable pool players. I dont need you to tell me how to use top spin. I want stories about pool. Tell us what else is going on at the tournament or what happened the night before.

 

[JoeyA]

I might just be a different kind of guy but a commentator telling me what I already know is boring. Talk about the games but you don't need a play by play on every shot. Once an out becomes simple I like when people use that time to tell stories or interact with the chat. What's the point of having the chat if the guy talking doesn't ever acknowledge it?

No thanks for streaming to turn into a bad ESPN Classic re-run. If you have a huge audience it becomes rough to talk to everyone but in small ball streaming I almost feel obligated to talk to everyone as best as possible. Keep a score updated saves a lot of headaches for sure. I'll put it this way if I can watch the same stream on two different sites. One set of commentators is giving the play by play and ignoring the chat but the other is not calling every single shot but is interacting I would go with the latter option.

Depends on a person's definition of entertainment.

Mikey,
One of the big problems a commentator has is determining what is entertaining and what is boring. The target audience is wide and varied and it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

As a commentator, I like to sizzle on a match, with the attention and reflexes of a mongoose, but I enjoy shifting gears and answering chat questions, especially if they are beneficial and will add to the quality of the live stream. I also like having fun with the other commentators, making them look good and challenging them at the same time. It is always an honor to sit with the more experienced commentators and listen to their style, learning and appreciating what they do. Trying to determine what the target audience is looking for and what our sponsors expect is something you try to work out in your mind before the tournament even starts.

The changing out of co-commentators is a good thing for Live Streaming, imo. It keeps them fresh and you fresh. Everything stays exciting, new and the audience doesn't know what's coming next unless Charley's in the booth with "HILLBILLYONTHE HILL.COM :thumbup:

Anyway, the responses have been great and you've all provided some great insights into what you think the Live Streams need. Hopefully, the medium will evolve and only get better.

Thanks,

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

I like it when people say what they think and get to the root of whats going on....God knows I gotta go do that tonight (face to face.....at a church) it's
not always easy to take or deliver.
In my experience live streaming (pool) as a streamer I felt about as appreciated as a cap on a spray paint can. It was nice that I was there but not really needed . Alot and I mean ALOT would have to change before you could in REALITY call a major company and explain to them that you have
X amount of viewers and you would like to advertise for them .X would need to take those 100-1000 viewers (REAL VIEWERS) and turn that into about 10,000-20,000 solid .That may in REALITY never happen to pool because its
just us players and pool nuts watching.
After doing my 18 month + tour of streaming I was really glad when like the prodigal son I came to myself and realized it was ALOT of fun but would not
ever pay the bills.So just for today I have to live in that reality . Also a GOOD
friend called me on my B.S. and told me I really wanted to play more and it was just less work staying behind the camera ......lol.
If anyone needs some really NEEDED help with video quality I can consult in that area at least .....for a small fee.Just wanted to chime in as I don't post
much anymore .My hats off to those who stream ....it's basically a labor of love .Honestly most of us here in the USA do it the lazy way ....it really needs
better commentary without distraction of a chat and to be re-encoded much like what Cue Sport TV does in europe.That does take ALOT more work but the end result is FAR more watchable and would drum up more viewers than just us die hard pool nuts .I had planed on doing that for a prominent tour this year but they only offered me half of what I wanted so now they get to live in that reality . Best to All
Matt

We all benefit from a dose of reality. Your comments make a lot of sense.

Things can change and maybe they will. Somehow we have to find a way for advertisers to get a justifiable return on their dough.

What do you mean by "re-encoded"? How exactly would that work?

Best to you Matt!

JoeyA

 

[mikeyfrost]

As another poster stated. I watch streams on a 65" TV in full screen mode. I would like a banner with some important messages from time to time. A nice scoring update on the screen.

Also when i am chatting answer the questions. I don't need to know how you think so and so is gonna run out 3wide open balls.

The people who watch streams are some what knowledgable pool players. I dont need you to tell me how to use top spin. I want stories about pool. Tell us what else is going on at the tournament or what happened the night before.

That's what I'm saying. I feel like for one pocket it's fun because there's options and you can talk about the game more and you find the people on the chat are talking about the match.

When you switch to BB 9-Ball let me tell you unless they are playing safety 98% of the shots are standard issue. The people on the stream at that point usually want the 'feel' of the tournament. It's nice to get Sarah in the booth to talk about the WPBA, Jamie Baracks talk about what's going on with the Chris Bartram challenge match, have Chip Compton talking about when he gave Gary Lutman the 9-Ball and so on. That's what most streamers want to hear about when the game is BB 9-Ball especially. Give them an up to date score and feed them insider information and the audience grows.

I think you gotta bring the tournament to the viewers not just the match they are seeing.

 

[JoeyA]

As another poster stated. I watch streams on a 65" TV in full screen mode. I would like a banner with some important messages from time to time. A nice scoring update on the screen.

Also when i am chatting answer the questions. I don't need to know how you think so and so is gonna run out 3wide open balls.

The people who watch streams are some what knowledgable pool players. I dont need you to tell me how to use top spin. I want stories about pool. Tell us what else is going on at the tournament or what happened the night before.

What type of "important messages" would you like to see on the banner?
For me, the only time stories are good is when the action has slowed down to a crawl or a break but that's just me. If I want to hear pool stories I go to the pool room or the pool tournaments because I like seeing the facial expressions that go on as the story unfolds. But I understand how others could prefer the stories.....

Thanks,
JoeyA
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

As another poster stated. I watch streams on a 65" TV in full screen mode. I would like a banner with some important messages from time to time. A nice scoring update on the screen.

Also when i am chatting answer the questions. I don't need to know how you think so and so is gonna run out 3wide open balls.

The people who watch streams are some what knowledgable pool players. I dont need you to tell me how to use top spin. I want stories about pool. Tell us what else is going on at the tournament or what happened the night before.

Richardson,
You made me thing about something with one of your statements and I appreciate that.

The conclusion that I have come to is that each viewer has something they like better than another viewer.

You would like your chat questions answered.......... Do you think that it would be fair for the Streamers to have a Tip Jar that chatters would donate a dollar whenever their question was answered, maybe by PayPal.

If a good story was told by the commentator, would it be fair to expect a token of appreciation from the viewers?

I'm serious. Funding is a big problem for Live Streams and your thoughts and the thoughts of others are making me consider other possible revenue streams.

There's nothing like having your own individual needs being catered to.:idea2:
Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[Majic]

I rarely log into the chat when a stream is on. And I rareley watch a stream for very long unless the play is exceptional, such as the US Open finals. Commentary is not required IMO. One of the best accu-stats matches I own is an ITP finals match held in Japan, between Duel and Reyes. No commentary at all, just great pool. Hmmmmm. I do enjoy the sound of womans voice doing commentary though..:grin-square:

 

[irock]

First off, let me say, I love the streaming, and I enjoy all the different commentators, and their different styles, and delivery. I really enjoy the ability to listen to them when I want to, or turn the sound down when I don't. One of the things I really enjoy, is not knowing who will be helping out in the booth. I like the on the spot, drag them into the booth technique.(lol) I've heard some very good commentating from players and other guests. For the most part I enjoy, and participate in the chat rooms. Sometimes I think, some people should PM each other, for discussing all the things going on in their lives, instead of using the chat room, during a tournament. I think the moderators do an excellent job controlling the chatting. The one thing that I think is annoying, is when a couple guys get on chat and start woofing to each other about some kind of challenge. Honestly, how many times has a real match developed out of it. Again PM each other and lock horns. I know for the most part the PPV matches are very reasonable, however, for people who are on a fixed income, they can be difficult to purchase when the truly great matches come around. If they could be even less expensive, I think many more people would purchase them, making it more profitable for the promoters in the long run. Maybe some day in the future, you guys that are streaming, could possibly have your own web site, promoting deals, and specials on cues, and other items, and have a monthly or yearly fee to be a member of the site, then have all your streams free to the members through that site. Possibly with the first month free for potential members.

 

[grindz]

Richardson,
You made me thing about something with one of your statements and I appreciate that.

The conclusion that I have come to is that each viewer has something they like better than another viewer.

You would like your chat questions answered.......... Do you think that it would be fair for the Streamers to have a Tip Jar that chatters would donate a dollar whenever their question was answered, maybe by PayPal.

If a good story was told by the commentator, would it be fair to expect a token of appreciation from the viewers?

I'm serious. Funding is a big problem for Live Streams and your thoughts and the thoughts of others are making me consider other possible revenue streams.

There's nothing like having your own individual needs being catered to.:idea2:
Thanks,
JoeyA

Now that's a concept that warrants some attention from the streamers!


As to the 'in a perfect world' of streaming, I'm sure the answers are as varied as the streamer's and viewer's personalities. As to what I like, "it depends" is the best I can say. I've watched matches with 'color' commentary that was as fun or more fun than the match being watched, and I've watched matches with commentary that was so insightful, know-ledgable, and well spoken that I will remember it for as long as my memory
lasts Other times, chatting with the commentators can be enjoyable.

What I have to say to the streamers is to one and all of you.....

THANK YOU! Thanks for what you've done, are doing, and will do. It IS
appreciated by us fans!

If you're interested (it's okay if you're not) things for us fans...
-if you have time, Please post up the names of the players and maybe what the race is to.... or appoint a moderator to the task
-if you can.... update the score.... or appoint a moderator to the task
-if there is a way, and I don't know how it can happen w/out a camera in
the light with zoom and panning capabilities.... somehow show which balls are which.... maybe it's not possible... but it sucks to watch and not know
what ball is next, or the one after next, because the colors and numbers just don't show well. IMO this is the ONE most important change that can
happen after non locking streams.
-find a price point that will take your business to profits, and something to take care of your business. I feel there is a cost benefit to a more moderate pricing structure, and I haven't seen it explored by any of you.
I would like to see you all financially successful in your venture!!!!
-I hope you can all have fun in what you are doing, because I think the live stream is taking the game to new levels that can only help the sport.

Again, in summation (sorry if I'm verbose) I'll take fun commentary over most all. I like fun!! If I can have fun, and learn, that's even better, and if I can have fun, learn, and watch a great match that's the best.......
but if I can have only one thing.... it's to have fun watching.

td