Live Stream Improvements

I haven't read the entire thread, but here are my comments on streaming:

I like to be able to tell who is playing and what the score is when I tune in. As for commentary, I like some shot analysis, but doesn't have to come on every shot. Background stories on the players, and other tournament updates are good too. Of course stream quality and continuity (no freezeups) make things better. This certainly seems to be on the improve. I mostly don't chat much, but watch it sometimes, and occasionally ask a question or make a comment, if I have logged in. It is nice in that respect, but not too important to me. Thanks to all the guys doing this streaming. Oh, and when are one of you guys gonna get Earl in the booth? (or Joe Rogan channeling Earl wouldn't be bad either.)
 
I think there should be one main streamer like accu-stats or TAR who streams all the major events and charges the viewers a subscription rate like $10 or $20 a month to watch any stream and all recorded material whenever we want. But they would have to stream a lot of events. I guarantee I would sign up and they would make more money out of me over the course of the year that way.

Also, I don't think it is a good idea for the commentators to interact with the chatters because when you watch a recorded match the chat isn't available and it just doesn't sound like good commentating without being able to read the chat.
 
as long as I can watch a good match and bet on it I could care less about the commentary. Of course some is going to be better/more entertaining than others but it's just like any other sport, I'm gonna watch regardless of who is in the booth. I hate Tim McCarver, Johnny Miller, and Joe Morgan, but I still watch their broadcasts if I'm interested in the match- ups they are calling.
 
I was just thinking about all of the things people talk about concerning Live Streams.

Thank you to all of the people who produce streams. Without it people like me don't have access to see these great players. I am not bashing anyone some of these streams are fantastic.

Since you ask this is what I like.

1. Commentary for high level tournament matches is a must (Joey A coupled with a Nick Varner (Galveston matches) fits this category). I don't expect any commentary for local amateur events or gambling matches, but for a "name" event I like at least decent commentary.

a. Stories during a match isn't commentary. My first reaction is the person talking doesn't know the game well enough to explain a top players thought process or they are telling stories to people they already know on the chat.

2. Players on the stream should be good or at least interesting players. The Kansas event had trouble with Dave Matlock not wanting to be shown. Players signing up for the event should either agree to be streamed or forfeit their match.

Until whatever it is that makes a stream connection reliable PPV will go nowhere. Its one thing to donate money to a stream to help out the person providing the service, but to pay for a unreliable connection coupled with stories told in most pool halls is throwing money in the street.
 
We all benefit from a dose of reality. Your comments make a lot of sense.

Things can change and maybe they will. Somehow we have to find a way for advertisers to get a justifiable return on their dough.

What do you mean by "re-encoded"? How exactly would that work?

Best to you Matt!

JoeyA

Your white war now dats ya newtural and dat red one iz da hot...and da black be da ground....or is it the oder way roun....???Just keep yanking dat
cord it'lll come to ya....indian electronics 101 one war hookem up two wars
screw em up .....:p
 
Most important (besides the obvious - people worth watching):

· No extended freezes. Whatever causes this, make sure the people handling it know how to avoid it and if money has to spent to avoid it, then pony up. This is one of the only things that can send away interested viewers. A few seconds now and again won't, but a solid 10 minute block? Absolutely.

· Video quality has to be at least good enough that you can identify any ball on the table, i.e. you can separate the 1 from the 9 or the 7 from the 8.

· Chat on the side is great and really adds to the experience of seeing it live. Without the chat, there's functionally almost no difference from seeing a recorded video (which would be much higher quality). Make it so that those who want to can turn it off.

· Miking up the players would be great!

· Commentary doesn't have to be famous, just interesting. Whether it draws you in via stories or analysis doesn't matter, but analysis is really easy to come by. I can analyze. A thousand unknowns can tell you "you spin off 1 rail with low right to get shape here". Only a handful have interesting stories to share, especially stories that involve famous players.
 
I like it when people say what they think and get to the root of whats going on....God knows I gotta go do that tonight (face to face.....at a church) it's
not always easy to take or deliver.
In my experience live streaming (pool) as a streamer I felt about as appreciated as a cap on a spray paint can. It was nice that I was there but not really needed . Alot and I mean ALOT would have to change before you could in REALITY call a major company and explain to them that you have
X amount of viewers and you would like to advertise for them .X would need to take those 100-1000 viewers (REAL VIEWERS) and turn that into about 10,000-20,000 solid .That may in REALITY never happen to pool because its
just us players and pool nuts watching.
After doing my 18 month + tour of streaming I was really glad when like the prodigal son I came to myself and realized it was ALOT of fun but would not
ever pay the bills.So just for today I have to live in that reality . Also a GOOD
friend called me on my B.S. and told me I really wanted to play more and it was just less work staying behind the camera ......lol.
If anyone needs some really NEEDED help with video quality I can consult in that area at least .....for a small fee.Just wanted to chime in as I don't post
much anymore .My hats off to those who stream ....it's basically a labor of love .Honestly most of us here in the USA do it the lazy way ....it really needs
better commentary without distraction of a chat and to be re-encoded much like what Cue Sport TV does in europe.That does take ALOT more work but the end result is FAR more watchable and would drum up more viewers than just us die hard pool nuts .I had planed on doing that for a prominent tour this year but they only offered me half of what I wanted so now they get to live in that reality . Best to All
Matt



Well I hope they listen to you Matt. Thanks for the very intelligent assessment about a world of, let's say, good people who just wanna have fun. I have to go now because oldzilla is chasing me with a pitchfork.
 
Most important (besides the obvious - people worth watching):

· No extended freezes. Whatever causes this, make sure the people handling it know how to avoid it and if money has to spent to avoid it, then pony up. This is one of the only things that can send away interested viewers. A few seconds now and again won't, but a solid 10 minute block? Absolutely.

· Video quality has to be at least good enough that you can identify any ball on the table, i.e. you can separate the 1 from the 9 or the 7 from the 8.

· Chat on the side is great and really adds to the experience of seeing it live. Without the chat, there's functionally almost no difference from seeing a recorded video (which would be much higher quality). Make it so that those who want to can turn it off.

· Miking up the players would be great!

· Commentary doesn't have to be famous, just interesting. Whether it draws you in via stories or analysis doesn't matter, but analysis is really easy to come by. I can analyze. A thousand unknowns can tell you "you spin off 1 rail with low right to get shape here". Only a handful have interesting stories to share, especially stories that involve famous players.

You may be quite correct about analyzing shape on each and every shot. But there are many people who don't play well enough to know what shot should be shot. Maybe we need to pay more attention to the patterns. I believe most viewers want to know in advance what the player is going to do. How he is going to do it is lagniappe.

One of the jobs of most pool color commentators is to predict what is going to happen before it happens rather than as it happens and I think many do just that or at least attempt to do that.

I don't like to see a commentator make a comment about what the player is going to do after the player has already obviously set up and made the choice, unless it happens to be a tricky shot. In defense of the commentators, it is easy to get caught up in the moment and lose the perspective of prognosticating.


As to the chat suggestion, I don't know of any chat that prevents you from "turning the chat off". That's already working.

JoeyA
 
I think there should be one main streamer like accu-stats or TAR who streams all the major events and charges the viewers a subscription rate like $10 or $20 a month to watch any stream and all recorded material whenever we want. But they would have to stream a lot of events. I guarantee I would sign up and they would make more money out of me over the course of the year that way.

Also, I don't think it is a good idea for the commentators to interact with the chatters because when you watch a recorded match the chat isn't available and it just doesn't sound like good commentating without being able to read the chat.

That would be great but it difficult and expensive to move a Live Stream oufit all over the country.

I agree with you about the commentators interacting with the chatters, UNLESS one of the commentators feeds the questions from the chat to the other commentator, announcing who and where the question came from.

On the marketing plus side, some chatters will purchase a video if they know their name was mentioned on a video and occasionally even their friends.

I think the interaction of the chat should be kept to a minimum while the action is hot and heavy. Breaks in the action or between matches is a great time to catch up on chat questions, if you aren't in need of a break yourself.

JoeyA
 
Pretty interesting thread here. I plead guilty on all counts! I've said it before that I enjoy doing live stream broadcasts because it gives you certain liberties that television does not. I confess that when I'm "working" a match I rarely look at the chat. I'm focused on the match, the players and what's transpiring. Someone has to tell me that so and so asked a question.

I'm headed for Reno in two days so you will probably have to put up with my boring drivel on a match or two. I promise not to talk too much or try any of my stupid jokes. You've heard of stupid pet tricks. Well how about stupid Jay jokes? I've got lots of them. :wink:

My opinion is that there are many people doing good commentary today, all with different styles. Joey was a natural from the word go. Big Dog is a totally different animal in that he connects with his audience and has a running dialogue with them in the chat room. I kind of enjoyed it myself.

I personally feel that there are guys working on line who do just as good a job as the more noted commentators who we hear regularly on Accu-Stats and ESPN. Fred, Beav and Justin are all damn good imo. Howerton and Tina P. did a nice job this past weekend on the women's event at Hard Times. Cristi De La Garza does good work in her interview segments and so does Sammy Diep. Mark Griffin is good at everything he does, except when he tries playing pool with me. :wink:
 
Updates & other info feeds.

This is coming from the commentator's viewpoint but I think once the target audience got used to it they wouldn't be able to do without it:

One of the things that I think would be GREAT is if the producer (the guy controlling the switches/cameras whose images are being seen by the Internet viewers) would be secretly but actively feeding information to the commentators. Things like other match scores, bracket information, maybe just unique pieces of information that might not be known to the commentators, like "Did you know so and so is playing with a borrowed cue because his airline lost his bags?". An occasional nudge about what's coming up, who's matchups that we might see are all great pieces of information that the target audience would love to hear about.

Sometimes, I think there are people out there who would volunteer to go get that information to share with the target audience (match scores, bracket updates and that sort of thing) just to be a part of the process and might even do it for free. They could hand deliver it to the producer or the commentator and then the info could be relayed to the target audience. Some "attaboys" from the commentators could be all the payment that might be needed. This type of information flow wouldn't have to be constant but it would be nice each match if in the middle of the match you could update the audience on what's happening elsewhere besides the TV table. If there is a good match going on somewhere else, a mention of it on TV table match could keep the audience glued to the stream.

When the producer is the go-to-guy for everything, technical, political, monetary etc, commentator, moderator, water carrier like Gunga Din it is difficult to criticize anything they do and easy to overlook any mistakes that are made. The technical problems seem to be a given at every Live Stream event and to expect one man to carry that load is too big of a load for any one person even if they are willing to suffer the burden. It's just too darn much stuff that needs to happen for one person to do it well.

JoeyA (You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din)
 
Great thread Joey.

I have read the entire thread and I know that some of my comments have already been mentioned by others.

Being one of the streamers I read this thread with much interest. I am always looking for ways to improve the quality of the live stream to increase the enjoyment of the viewers. As streamers we must try to keep the viewers happy or they will not stay and watch and with out viewers what is the point of streaming.


I was just thinking about all of the things people talk about concerning Live Streams.

It is apparent that some people enjoy the commentary of specific commentators, while others prefer no commentary.

For the record, there is nothing like being right there on the spot where the play is happening but wouldn't it be nice if your favorite commentator could sit at home and commentate on the match as it is happening?

How about two commentators that have "chemistry" with each other, sitting in different parts of the world, simultaneously doing color and promotion? Yes, having commentary from a remote location would be nice but there is always a lag time between live and what the viewer sees. Normally the lag is only a few seconds but it can be as much as several minutes. It would still work if the comments were not made about the action on the screen and were used for player bio, history of the event, etc.

What about having microphones hooked up to every player? Some of the players might not like it but if it promotes the sport and people enjoyed hearing the murmurs and quiet talk of the player, it has to be good for the sport. I would be more inclined to watch live streams if the players' words could be heard. I would enjoy that myself as i'm sure it would to many of the hard core pool/billiards enthusiasts. I'm not so sure that all the players would be able to control their language, language that would not be appreciated in a family setting. I always have to remind myself that, although we as streamers are in a pool room, we are broadcasting into peoples homes and hopefully there are children watching/listening.

Also, I think the chat rooms are great fun for the chatters and if their is a moderator available to ride herd on the chatters, the commentators can have some fun interacting with the chat room on occasion. The commentators interacting with the viewers in the chat room can be and is fun if you are able to read what is being written in the chat. However almost all the streamers archive the videos on Ustream and what was funny as it happened is very confusing at times to the point of why did he say that? If the commentator can mention first what he/she is commenting on that helps.

Larger screens would be a plus.
Higher resolution is always desirable. The technology is always improving and as it becomes readily available the the quality of the streams will improve. One instance that I'm aware of, a local room tried to get high speed broadband service from Comcast and was told that it was not available to them as a business account, the house next door (less than 100 feet away) has residential high speed broadband service from Comcast.

How important are the following to the live stream viewer:
1. To be entertained.
2. To learn.
3. To participate in the entertainment. (chat)

What are the most important reasons for watching a pool match? For me, it is watching a particular player or matchup between two particular players of my interest at that point in time, with unique color commentating. The only time I want to hear long jokes, old but good stories is when there is a solid break in the action. I've been guilty of telling a story on occasion while action is taking place and when I think about it today, I still cringe. :embarrassed2: I guess we all live and learn.

I love to receive updates about other matches going on at pool tournaments but that has to be the job of the producer. The producer has to have a runner or have this information fed to the commentators for them to provide it to the viewers.A agree with this 100% I try to have a ''runner'' to supply us with updates on other matches but these people are volunteers are not always so reliable and most of the time my ''sharp stick'' isn't long enough or the point wears dull. I think the the procucer is the person who is running the stream. In my case I consider myself to be the producer, director, camera man, audio tech, on screen graphics tech, lighting tech, lugger, chat room host, moderator, and in general keep the stream running guy. Sometimes it is very easy (internet is cooperating) and other times there is hardly a second to spare and getting score updates is low on the priority list.

Another question, I have for the people who purchase match videos on a regular basis. Would you prefer to have commentators who NEVER interact with the live stream audience or would you prefer to have commentators who carefully articulate who and what they are referring to in the chat room? I prefer this if it is kept to a minimum and can be done and still make sense while watching/listening to the recording. Keep in mind, that the screen names make no sense to anyone unless you know who the screen name belongs to.

There are lots of things that people are interested in like the player's accomplishments, past and current. Personal information about the individual players is always interesting.I think this is very important and can add much to the commentary. Your suggestion above about remote commentators would work out well for this.

And finally:
What improvements to Live Streaming would you like to see?Speaking for myself only, I want to add multiple cameras and have the ability to switch from one to the others, to have better on screen graphics (players name scores, sponsor logos etc.) and I am very close to having that. I would like to have one of those cameras as an overhead view, the problem is that in most venues the ceiling is too low or there is the normal over the table light that interferes. I would also like to upgrade to much better cameras but that cost is just too far out of reach at this time.

I see things on other streams that I think IMHO that could be done to make improvements at no cost in dollars and take very little time to correct. It just takes paying more attention to detail. I while however keep my mouth shut as I do not want to embarrass anyone. I would offer my humble opinions in private if any one cares to know.


JoeyA

Joey thank you for starting this thread. I hope it gives a bit of insight as to what it takes to produce a live stream and that people will have more patience when things aren't running smoothly.

Steve
Mi_Billiards
 
Yes mic up the players.

I like the 2 commentators.

Good audio ballance...sometimes its hard to get the volume just right,to loud and then to quiet.

I like having the score posted in the video window.

I also like two commentators and in my experience it is quite often the commentators who cause the varying degree of loudness/quietness.

For the audio level to remain constant the commentator must maintain the same distance from the microphone and speak into it. I have seen a commentator leaning forward to read the chat and had the mic pushed up against his adams appple, all the while talking. I was monitoring the audio with headphones and heard the volume level drop.

One of my next upgrades wil be microphone headsets so that no matter where the commentator is looking or where the head is at the mic while remain in a constant position. Hopefully having a mic right in front of their mouth while also stop them from eating.

Steve
 
This has been a very interesting thread, and learning a lot of stuff here.

People actually get paid to live stream?!?! :)

I've been live streaming the OB Cues Ladies Tour for a year now. Things are very different for us since we are a women's tour. We try to have 2 commentators all the time, and we love interacting with the chat room. I feel that most of our viewers are tuning in because they actually know the players on the stream and really enjoying interacting with the commentators.

We do try to talk about the match while it is going on, but to be perfectly honest, the women do take longer to play a match than the men. We're usually a little slower and miss a little more often. We try to put the more entertaining and faster players on the live stream, but sometimes it just doesn't work out. So, to fill in, the commentators interact with the chatroom. We do try to state the question first and then answer it, but its not always easy to remember that.

We do put players names and scores up on the stream, but I STILL get asked by viewers what the score is. Happens all.the.time.

Live streaming isn't cheap. I have spent thousands of dollars out of my own pocket for all the equipment and software to do the stream, and countless hours into figuring everything out. We can only depend on the pool hall if it has wifi or an air card. The quality of the stream is only as good as our connection, which we really don't have much control over.

It does get very frustrating when people complain about the quality of the stream. We do the best we can with what we have. I wish more viewers understood that. If there was more I could do, I definitely would! Its not like we set out to put on a sucky stream on purpose.

Thanks for starting this thread, as I have learned a lot already. Now I have a few extra ideas for our next event. :)
 
I'm headed for Reno in two days so you will probably have to put up with my boring drivel on a match or two. I promise not to talk too much or try any of my stupid jokes. You've heard of stupid pet tricks. Well how about stupid Jay jokes? I've got lots of them.

You're one of the few that does good commentary look forward to the Reno event.

"Lot of guys doing it, Lot of guys doing it, but only one can be the best".

To those who think everything's obvious. How come there's only a few players who play at the highest level?

I liked the old Accu-stat's commentary you never knew what could improve your game. I like hearing how the best players approach the game.

Something as simple as Buddy Hall saying "Don't play position when you already have position". Priceless
 
Your white war now dats ya newtural and dat red one iz da hot...and da black be da ground....or is it the oder way roun....???Just keep yanking dat
cord it'lll come to ya....indian electronics 101 one war hookem up two wars
screw em up .....:p

You wouldn't be yankin' my chain now would ya? The only post out of all these great posts and it's coming from one of my buds. Sheesh!

JoeyA
 
Well I did a broadcast last night and made sure to try my best to do better and will continue to do better. I think with me being a one man show it is tough and burns you out. I put the word out on Facebook and let people know I needed some help and got people who were willing to do just that. I think that when you play in these things and also try to do a live stream it can be distracting along with tough on the eyes. I was lucky to have the assistance of Angel Paglia who helps me from time to time as does Ashea Erdahl, they are very good helpers and are pretty easy on the eyes too, the fans love them. :grin-square:
 
Well I did a broadcast last night and made sure to try my best to do better and will continue to do better. I think with me being a one man show it is tough and burns you out. I put the word out on Facebook and let people know I needed some help and got people who were willing to do just that. I think that when you play in these things and also try to do a live stream it can be distracting along with tough on the eyes. I was lucky to have the assistance of Angel Paglia who helps me from time to time as does Ashea Erdahl, they are very good helpers and are pretty easy on the eyes too, the fans love them. :grin-square:

ClickEasy on the eyes and makes some just want to dance :dance::dance:

Bob <Count me among the aforementioned "some" --->can't wait until the Erdahl Dance is released... :rolleyes: >
 
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One man......Burn out (I can only imagine)

Well I did a broadcast last night and made sure to try my best to do better and will continue to do better. I think with me being a one man show it is tough and burns you out. I put the word out on Facebook and let people know I needed some help and got people who were willing to do just that. I think that when you play in these things and also try to do a live stream it can be distracting along with tough on the eyes. I was lucky to have the assistance of Angel Paglia who helps me from time to time as does Ashea Erdahl, they are very good helpers and are pretty easy on the eyes too, the fans love them. :grin-square:

Well then, I hope every now and then you take one of those cameras and focus it on the lady "helpers" for the Live Stream fans to appreciate too.

JoeyA
 
Well then, I hope every now and then you take one of those cameras and focus it on the lady "helpers" for the Live Stream fans to appreciate too.

JoeyA

It is in the works, as soon as I get my ducks in a row I plan on picking up another camera and dv switch so I can go between cameras and get some different angles including the commentary booth. As for burnout, after this weekend I will have streamed over 65 hours in the month of February. :smile:
 
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