Long Draw Shots

ArizonaPete

ArizonaPete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the cue ball is within 2 diamonds of the object ball, I can draw the length of the table very easily. At about 4 diamonds distance, I'll get maybe a foot or so of draw. At over that, I'll get a nice stop shot. I've tried using a little more power, keeping the cue as level as possible, and shooting very low on the cue ball with smooth follow thru but those long draws are just not happening. I'm thinking it might be my stroke but I don't know. It's the same with a Medium Moori or a hard Super Pro tip. On TV I see those little Asian girls shoot the length of the table and draw straight back 9 feet. That's embarassing because I'm a pretty big guy. Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
 
I would also say there is a good chance you may not be striking the cueball where you are aiming. Its pretty common to see players aim low on the cueball and then raise the tip during the final stroke.

Take a striped ball, and set it so the stripe is horizontal, or parallel to the table. Chalk your tip well and then aim the TOP of your tip to the bottom of the stripe. Hit the shot and then check to see where the chalk mark is.

Players often aim the middle of the tip at where they want to strike the cueball. This is great when hitting center ball, but as you move down on the cueball you need to aim the top of the tip to be accurate with your strike. And as you move up on the cueball (follow) it is actually the bottom of the tip that hits the ball, so this is what I aim at the cuball.


Woody
 
practice, practice, practice.


I was at the BCA trade show the other day and Shane was sooting long straigh it draw shots with about 5 diamonds between the CB and OB on brand new cloth and he was hitting is super soft and drawing back and scratching in the corner right below his body, he got the action(draw/screw) on the CB every shot and usually scratched, Shane has a great stroke and can get alot of spin with very little power, This happens to be my road shot, I'm very good at it. so Shane and were trading shots back and forth just having fun, Shane obviously plays MUCH MUCH stronger than me, i'm not suggesting I'm anyway near his speed at all.

But I can shoot the shot with even 6 diamonds of space between the 2 balls and draw my rock, dead straight back. What I couldnt do that Shane was doing as hitting it so soft and getting alot of action on the CB, when I wanted to draw it back as fast/far as Shane I had to shoot it harder than him, because he has a much better stroke, he has paid his dues more than me, It all comes down to practice, you dont have to shoot hard to draw your ball you have to spin the CB with the cue, that takes touch, the right cue and practice, shoooting it harder does help to a certain extent, I have seen Shane draw the ball around 3 rails and scratch-when he loade it up, I cant do that either. He gets more spin than I do no matter what speed he hits the CB, why? he has a better stroke, want a better stroke? go practice.


my point is you dont have to be a champion to draw your rock, you dont have to hit it real hard either, Shane was barely hitting it and was drawing his rock like there was a magnent there or something, I dont have his stroke and to get the action on the CB he did I needed to hit the ball somewhat harder(i didnt have to blast the ball) someone who dosent have my stroke mught have to hit it harder yet(there is some corrlation between how hard you hit the ball and spin but not much as you think) hitting the CB pure will give you more spin than power will ever give you, which shows my weakness comapired to him on that shot(and any other shot i can think of),

so I'm now working on a soft power draw shot, it works best on new cloth. maximum spin for minumum power,


at father distances you do have to hit the ball harder to carry the back spin, on new slippery cloth thats not a issue as much, on well worn cloth then you do have to muscle it down table a bit to get it to draw, but not as much as you might think,
 
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I am not bragging but i need to talk about this one.
I can draw the cue ball back the length of the table on 8 foot or longer shot. As best as i can explain because i don't think about what i'm doing is this. I grip the cue about 2 inches farther back then normal and on the last stroke i lower my bridge hand slightly and raise the butt slightly and use a long follow thru and flick my wrist about a half inch forward at the end of the stroke. Also i chaulk up real good before this shot.
 
Keep on practicing...

Keep pluggin away. It will happen eventually. Don't frustrate yourself by trying those long ones. Start short and gradually lenghten till you can draw straight back to the rail 10 times in a row with consistency. Draw a straight line on the table (chalk line works, diagonal between corner pockets) and practice keeping your cue straight when shooting these. Look where the tip ends up. Concentrate on drawing straight back. Start your forward stroke slow. Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. You might be amazed. You are probably trying too hard. If you miscue, you are hitting the table first.

Do that a while (couple of years). You'll get a lot more out of it than you know. Then go find some new cloth and impress yourself.
 
Any chance that the 'harder' you're trying to hit it, the more you grip your cue?

I've seen a lot of people try to power draw, but they tense up their grip hands and that robs the cue of power and speed.

Something to look at. Try to keep the grip hand totally relaxed, even on power shots. One trick I use is, 1. relax my hand before taking a slow, deliberate back stoke, then let it go. Takes a little practice to not tense up when hitting hard, but it can be done...
 
Ponytail said:
Any chance that the 'harder' you're trying to hit it, the more you grip your cue?

I've seen a lot of people try to power draw, but they tense up their grip hands and that robs the cue of power and speed.

Something to look at. Try to keep the grip hand totally relaxed, even on power shots. One trick I use is, 1. relax my hand before taking a slow, deliberate back stoke, then let it go. Takes a little practice to not tense up when hitting hard, but it can be done...
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YUP, what he said!
 
There's a lot of good advice here. The most relevant to your issue was by woody_968. If you can draw back 8 diamonds when you are two diamonds from the OB, you're getting 10 diamonds of draw. That is, the backspin on the cue ball lasts the entire trip to the OB (2 diamonds) and then the length of travel back from the OB (8 diamonds).

When you go back two more diamonds, so the CB is 4 diamonds from the OB, you can only get 1 diamond's distance backward. That means you're only getting a total of 5 diamonds worth of backspin. It's almost always the case that when this happens it's because you've changed your stroke, probably because subconsciously you think you need to hit it much harder, and you inadvertently hit the CB too high. Woody_968's demo will prove it to you.

To start the process of fixing it, you'll need to force yourself to hit the two shots exactly the same; same speed and same cueing. Do NOT hit it harder just because you're further away. If you do hit it with the same stroke, you'll get the same number of diamonds, so you should get 4 to the OB and then 6 more in reverse after the collision.

If you can't make yourself do it at 4 diamonds separation, try 3. Or, try to close your eyes after your preshot routine, but before you start your final stroke at the ball. That may help you hit the stokes the same, and thus get the same result. Once you see this a couple times, and begin to believe that it's possible to get more draw with less power, you're well on your way. Maybe someday you'll be up there with fatboy, or even SVB. Don't expect that kind of stroke for at least a couple weeks. :smile:
 
Fatboy said:
I was at the BCA trade show the other day and Shane was sooting long straigh it draw shots with about 5 diamonds between the CB and OB on brand new cloth and he was hitting is super soft ...
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Is there any noticeable difference in playing draw shots with soft tips or hard tips? I've only ever used medium to hard tips.
 
I have a problem with drawing the ball too far and i mean way too far. I have to concentrate on my draw shots not to get the action but to not over-stroke (if thats a term) the ball. I often scratch in the corners when I get too straight and have to come back down table for shape. I also wish I didn't have this problem.
 
Buddy Hall has a article on AZ Billiards addressing the long draw. His advice is to shorten your bridge to ensure you're hitting the cue ball.
 
I was having problems drawing like I use too when I came back to the game after 5 years off for health reasons. Cory Harper told me I probably wasn't following through the shot from what I told him. He was right. Now I'm a drawing artist LOL. He helped me with the jump shot also from behind his PC. If he doesn't give lessons...he should. I know he would or is good at it. Johnnyt
 
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measureman said:
I am not bragging but i need to talk about this one.
I can draw the cue ball back the length of the table on 8 foot or longer shot. As best as i can explain because i don't think about what i'm doing is this. I grip the cue about 2 inches farther back then normal and on the last stroke i lower my bridge hand slightly and raise the butt slightly and use a long follow thru and flick my wrist about a half inch forward at the end of the stroke. Also i chaulk up real good before this shot.
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you just woke up the dummy here "ME" you bring up one hell of a point with wrist movment-That I forgot about, Alex does that, so does shane. Its dancing with fire because it can cause alot of problems too, JA and Earl have their wrists turned in a slight bit and more so at he end of the stroke.

There are other wrist movments on "pop" shots when you need to create a angle, I remeber useing that on draw long ago, I wasnt the player I am now thats how long its been, Man I got to get to a box in a hurry, thanks for reminding me of that.
 
Rethunk said:
Is there any noticeable difference in playing draw shots with soft tips or hard tips? I've only ever used medium to hard tips.
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my friend Mike Mitchell can draw the ball as good as Shane and he uses tips so hard they squeek when you chalk them, we been playing together since 85, I cant draw my rock like him, he has a beatiful long natural stroke, he is a very gifted player. Thats him. I'm not gifted and I need a med tip to get max spin/draw on the CB, but again I dont have his stroke, Shane uses worn out tips(the side of his tip is 1MM or less above the ferrruel) I dont know how he does it, well I do know-He has a better stroke.


It all boils down to how good you stroke the ball, to compensate for my "less than perfect" stroke I do need a softer tip(at least I think I do). But Efren uses softer tips than me. There is no real/right answere here, its preferance. To put it into perspective I have a above average stroke for a player my speed, I knocked more of my own action because of that, all show and no go.:frown:

just use what works the best, try everything, i still try new things
 
All of these replies make a valid point, rather than repeating what others said consider a couple of other options... lenghten your bridge hand somewhat and try to snap your wrist (yes, keep the wrist loose). Once you do this a couple of times you will know exactly what I mean. In addition make sure your tip is shaped to an ideal condition... use a lathe to get the edges as sharp as possible, if not a quality shaper/scuffer such as an ultimate tip tool works too.
 
Jallan said:
I have a problem with drawing the ball too far and i mean way too far. I have to concentrate on my draw shots not to get the action but to not over-stroke (if thats a term) the ball. I often scratch in the corners when I get too straight and have to come back down table for shape. I also wish I didn't have this problem.
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Well, if you have trouble with draw distance try changing where you strike the cue ball. If you tend to draw too far, take some off, or just hit a little higher on the cue ball.

You can hit almost center ball with a draw stroke and still pull the rock back.
 
Not being know for my drawing prowess.....there are two things that I find that really help when I need it.....

regardless of the type of tip, you still need a pretty decent crown on it. Making sure that your tip isn't "flat" is a must.

The other thing is to make sure that it is a smooth stroke - not a jab or a poke. Watch Buddy a few times.....smoooooththhhhh. It can be a fast stroke, without being a jab.

Tammie
 
ArizonaPete said:
If the cue ball is within 2 diamonds of the object ball, I can draw the length of the table very easily. At about 4 diamonds distance, I'll get maybe a foot or so of draw. At over that, I'll get a nice stop shot. I've tried using a little more power, keeping the cue as level as possible, and shooting very low on the cue ball with smooth follow thru but those long draws are just not happening. I'm thinking it might be my stroke but I don't know. It's the same with a Medium Moori or a hard Super Pro tip. On TV I see those little Asian girls shoot the length of the table and draw straight back 9 feet. That's embarassing because I'm a pretty big guy. Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
A few more.

Playing conditions make a world of difference. It's very hard to get much draw, if any, on old chalky cloth when the balls are separated by a large distance.

If you're facing a situation where the balls are, say, six diamonds apart, and any draw, even a few inches, would be better than no draw at all, the following might apply. If you can hit a stop from that distance by striking the cueball near the miscue limit, striking a little higher (same cue speed) will likely get you that few inches.

You may not be as far from a testosterone-fueled monster draw as you think, and maybe even the equivalent of what the Asian ladies can do. If the cueball has just a slight amount of backspin as it arrives at the object ball (i.e., very nearly a stop shot), it will lose 35% of that spin during the collision. This translates to almost a 60% reduction in draw distance (which is proportional to the square of the retained spin, and .65 squared is equal to .42). If it has a little more backspin, it will still lose 35%. With enough spin, however, a threshold is reached where the losses begin to diminish, and fairly rapidly. At this point you begin earning compound interest. Not only does the cueball have more spin to begin with, it loses less during the collision (much less with enough backspin), and the gain is squared. The downside is that it becomes correspondingly more difficult to control the draw distance with precision.

As another poster suggested, if you're using a pendulum stroke (elbow stationary), you should probably see more draw by moving your grip hand back toward the rear of the cue, if there's room. This can help to produce more cue speed. Alternately, you might try moving your grip hand forward and dropping your elbow before impact (ala Mike Massey). By doing this you bring more powerful muscles into play. The more forward grip is needed to compensate for the descending elbow and keeps the tip on a truer trajectory, more or less. But it is harder to coordinate everything.

Simply put, you either need to hit lower (with the noted exception), more cue speed, or maybe, newer cloth.

Jim
 
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