Long Draw Shots
- Thread starter ArizonaPete
- Start date
Guys, ArizonaPete says he can draw just fine when the CB is close to the OB. But he can't get anywhere near that much draw when further away. It's not his equipment that's at fault, since he can get a full table length of draw some of the time!
Fixing the problem will require finding out what he's changing/doing differently when the CB gets further away, and not doing that. Looked at another way, he has to learn to stroke the CB the same when it's 4 spots away as he does when it's only 2 spots away.
It's a psychological issue causing him to stroke differently. He doesn't need to change his stroke with a longer or shorter bridge, or with a wrist snap. For him to get the same draw he can already do, he just needs to use the same stroke he's already using.
He was getting 10 spots of draw already. If he needs to get more than that he may need to change, but right now he can't get more than half that when 4 spots away. When he has worked out how to always use the same stroke for draw, whether 2 or 4 spots away, then (maybe) he'll be ready to try some of the techniques you mention to extend that to 12 or 15 or 20 spots worth.
Fixing the problem will require finding out what he's changing/doing differently when the CB gets further away, and not doing that. Looked at another way, he has to learn to stroke the CB the same when it's 4 spots away as he does when it's only 2 spots away.
It's a psychological issue causing him to stroke differently. He doesn't need to change his stroke with a longer or shorter bridge, or with a wrist snap. For him to get the same draw he can already do, he just needs to use the same stroke he's already using.
He was getting 10 spots of draw already. If he needs to get more than that he may need to change, but right now he can't get more than half that when 4 spots away. When he has worked out how to always use the same stroke for draw, whether 2 or 4 spots away, then (maybe) he'll be ready to try some of the techniques you mention to extend that to 12 or 15 or 20 spots worth.
This is really a great forum with very helpful and interested players. I really appreciate all the fine suggestions, observations and recommendations. I had a couple of minutes this afternoon to shoot a few balls. I hit lower on the cue ball than I usually do (I thought I might jump the cue - but didn't) and got some better draw action. Shortening my bridge also helped. Now all I have to do is practice, practice and more practice to keep that consistency. Many thanks for all the help.
real practice.
This is a video of me hitting a 15 or 16 diamond draw shot starting with the balls 5 diamonds apart. (2:07 into the video) I don't know of any 100lb Asian girls hitting this shot . Shaft size is about 12.6mm and the tip is med/hard. Just keep practicing man. It isn't easy and does require some serious timing and coordination. I remember slamming draw shots until I was sweating and my arm and shoulder were on fire. Keep trying.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqCPqYJ30zo
This is a video of me hitting a 15 or 16 diamond draw shot starting with the balls 5 diamonds apart. (2:07 into the video) I don't know of any 100lb Asian girls hitting this shot . Shaft size is about 12.6mm and the tip is med/hard. Just keep practicing man. It isn't easy and does require some serious timing and coordination. I remember slamming draw shots until I was sweating and my arm and shoulder were on fire. Keep trying.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqCPqYJ30zo
Get the operation!
Short answer: spray and wipe the CB with Silicone lubricant. This will simulate slick conditions and probably let you draw like the "little Asian girls" on TV (provided you are hitting the CB low and hard enough).
Long answer: see all of the advice and resources on this topic here:
Regards,
Dave
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What Neil said....you have to have spin on the CB by the time it gets to the OB--- you have to overcome the friction of the cloth.
this is how i know my stroke is working and i'm feeling good is if I can shoot the length of the table and get at least half a table worth of draw.
to reiterate the point about SVB, when I did his clinic he said he would setup the long diagonal straight stroke and hit that for hours a day. He would set up points on the line and draw the CB to that point.
That is, IMO the ultimate stroke trainer and I should be doing it more than I do. Bert Kinister recommends you set it up a bit off the rail to reduce the pocket size... but I disagree... the length is what you want. If you are doing this on a fairly tight 9 footer, you are not going to draw the CB in a straight line unless you are hitting center pocket every time anyways. Take baby steps with this drill, starting with a stop shot and then applying draw in small increments... your speed should never be harder than what you need to do to stop the ball and replace the OB with the cue ball.
The point about focusing your attention to apply english with the top of your tip rather than the middle is a really interesting one and good advice. I'm going to be focusing on this myself today. :thumbup:
to reiterate the point about SVB, when I did his clinic he said he would setup the long diagonal straight stroke and hit that for hours a day. He would set up points on the line and draw the CB to that point.
That is, IMO the ultimate stroke trainer and I should be doing it more than I do. Bert Kinister recommends you set it up a bit off the rail to reduce the pocket size... but I disagree... the length is what you want. If you are doing this on a fairly tight 9 footer, you are not going to draw the CB in a straight line unless you are hitting center pocket every time anyways. Take baby steps with this drill, starting with a stop shot and then applying draw in small increments... your speed should never be harder than what you need to do to stop the ball and replace the OB with the cue ball.
The point about focusing your attention to apply english with the top of your tip rather than the middle is a really interesting one and good advice. I'm going to be focusing on this myself today. :thumbup:
I was taught by an instructor that the area on an average "stripped" OB where the color and white of the ball separate is the exact maximum tip position (when that OB has the stripe running parallel to the table). Sure you can put more draw/follow/english then that but if stroked properly that should be all you need. If you use a dark ball then set the OB up to replace the CB you will know just where to strike that ball for maximum draw. And you can then use the chalk residue left on the ball as a marker to see if you are indeed striking where you intended. It may be like you said a stroke issue. You may have the same problem a friend of mine has; he's inadvertently raising the tip up at address. Thus making you draw less.
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
Bumpypickle,
I can draw the rock pretty good but i watched your video and you are a sick puppy ! The amount of flex on the shaft is unreal. Have you ever broken a shaft ?
I can draw the rock pretty good but i watched your video and you are a sick puppy ! The amount of flex on the shaft is unreal. Have you ever broken a shaft ?
Yep, what he said. Some very good advice already offered.
Loose ( actually, I would say relaxed) grip is a big help. Make a nice long stroke with a pause.
One thing that Neil was hitting on is SPEED! The way I like to describe it is that YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CUE STICK IS ACCELERATING THROUGH THE CUE BALL. This is not done by shooting hard. It is a relaxed smooth stroke with ACCELERATION that gives a great draw result. This is why a good follow through can help, as well as some wrist movement. You will find it is not necessary to shoot as hard as you think.
If you are trying to hit harder, you will tense up, and you will be anticipating the hard contact of the cue stick on the cueball. This can make your stroke stop short of a good follow through with ACCELERATION. You will be "punching" the ball and your cue stick will not be accelerating through the cue ball.
Try to imagine that your cue ball is sitting in front of where it really is (meaning closer to the object ball). Mentally stroke a draw stroke on the imaginary cue ball with a relaxed stroke and a very low hit ( and a mostly level cue). Try it a little bit, and you will see what I mean.
Jw
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one of the problems a lot of players have is thinking that they have to hit the ballsl harder to draw it back further, which is false, this usually leads to stabbing at the ball. the key lies in accellerating through the ball in a smooth fashion and not letting the tip slide on the cueball. the harder you hit the cueball at contact the more difficult it will be for you to maintain contact with the cueball through your stroke (accellerating during your stroke to keep up with the cueball) . plus the harder you hit the ball, the faster it travels forward = the harder it is for the spin to get it to come back. what had helped me with this was watching and mimicing players with long fluid, powerful, strokes (strickland, hatch, the miz, nevel) they all seem to share the same type of tempo when hitting the ball.
Phenolic draw
Sometimes I practice shots using my break cue with the phenolic tip. I do this as a 'back to basics' center ball-hit reminder of the versatility of no english 'stun'. (Usually after losing again and again trying to hit the dreaded inside english cut to the corner allowing the CB to travel 3 rails for shape.)
I find that I can draw the CB with the phenolic tip using an accelerating smooth, level stroke. But not as well as when using a 'roughed up' Moori Medium- using the same stroke.
In fact-I must hit the phenolic with more pace than I like to get a similar draw distance. For me the feel-of a well delivered draw stroke with the Moori is almost as if the ball is being 'pushed' rather being 'struck' as you cut through the bottom of the ball.
For me it is a 'feel' thing. I don't feel it often enough-I don't play enough.
BTW I believe the acceleration (rate af change) can be from '15 to 25', '25 to 40' etc using that smooth level stroke to change how much draw you get while still stroking at a speed that's in your accuracy comfort zone.
I really don't know how to explain it-Just my opinion. I'm lucky to get it to work 40% of the time.
3railkick (no cure for stupid)
Sometimes I practice shots using my break cue with the phenolic tip. I do this as a 'back to basics' center ball-hit reminder of the versatility of no english 'stun'. (Usually after losing again and again trying to hit the dreaded inside english cut to the corner allowing the CB to travel 3 rails for shape.)
I find that I can draw the CB with the phenolic tip using an accelerating smooth, level stroke. But not as well as when using a 'roughed up' Moori Medium- using the same stroke.
In fact-I must hit the phenolic with more pace than I like to get a similar draw distance. For me the feel-of a well delivered draw stroke with the Moori is almost as if the ball is being 'pushed' rather being 'struck' as you cut through the bottom of the ball.
For me it is a 'feel' thing. I don't feel it often enough-I don't play enough.
BTW I believe the acceleration (rate af change) can be from '15 to 25', '25 to 40' etc using that smooth level stroke to change how much draw you get while still stroking at a speed that's in your accuracy comfort zone.
I really don't know how to explain it-Just my opinion. I'm lucky to get it to work 40% of the time.
3railkick (no cure for stupid)
Thank you everyone...
This thread has been great for me today...been having some difficulty getting my draw stroke back...the advice in this thread, in all honesty, tripled my drawing distance after about 6 shots.
The flicking of the wrist and making sure I kept my back hand relaxed did it. Now I'll spend the rest of the day making sure I keep it consistent.
Thanks again and best regards,
Mattie
PS...Pickle you're a monster sir.
This thread has been great for me today...been having some difficulty getting my draw stroke back...the advice in this thread, in all honesty, tripled my drawing distance after about 6 shots.
The flicking of the wrist and making sure I kept my back hand relaxed did it. Now I'll spend the rest of the day making sure I keep it consistent.
Thanks again and best regards,
Mattie
PS...Pickle you're a monster sir.
The weight of the cue-ball, is also a huge factor, in determining the amount of draw you get on the cue-ball. Light cue-ball= easier to draw. The nap in the cloth, is also a factor. Newer cloth= easier to draw.
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http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
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http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
First off Pickle can draw the rock, very nice buddy.
Here are my tips first, read this entire thread lots of good ideas and hit a lot of balls.
I would suggest slooooowww back and at least slight but definite pause at back.
After stroke when checking the tip to see if it is online (earlier suggestion) check the shooting hands knuckles they should point up at end of stroke (thanks Scott Lee).
Tip radius is important you need a decent radius closer to the dime, definitely not flat and good chalk Masters or better is important too.
I agree on the accel versus per speed at impact.
Draw on buddy
Here are my tips first, read this entire thread lots of good ideas and hit a lot of balls.
I would suggest slooooowww back and at least slight but definite pause at back.
After stroke when checking the tip to see if it is online (earlier suggestion) check the shooting hands knuckles they should point up at end of stroke (thanks Scott Lee).
Tip radius is important you need a decent radius closer to the dime, definitely not flat and good chalk Masters or better is important too.
I agree on the accel versus per speed at impact.
Draw on buddy
I think one of the biggest things that helps is a little visualization (very basic only) of what really needs to be done when hitting the cue ball. I ve helped quite a few people get a grip on draw shots by simply putting a pack of smokes on the table, standing the pack upright, and telling them to shoot it like it was the cue ball, hitting it low in such a way as to "Push the bottom out from under the top of the pack" AMAZING the results after trying that an then moving back to a cue ball. something about using that phrase/explanation and a square-ish object as the example really hits home. no matter how hard or soft you hit it, basically understanding that you are not just hitting it low(and crisp,pure,whatever) that if you are pushing the bottom of the ball out from under the top you will draw the ball better. any other tweaks/adjustments to stroke/angle etc are secodary to overcoming the prevailing thought that just low = draw.
