long straight-in near pocket

PKM

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
At the risk of asking a dumb question, I wanted to see what you think about this shot, say it's perfectly straight-in. I know for a lot of you this would be trivially easy, but would you shoot a stop shot or use a drag draw shot to slow roll it? I'd be less worried about the scratch with a stop shot, but you've got to hit it pretty hard so if you're slightly off you might rattle it (or I should say, I might rattle it)

And yes, I know, avoid getting into this position!

CueTable Help

 
If the game is 8 ball, and this is your money ball, a shot diagrammed like this leaves worlds of room to cheat the pocket. IMHO, it actually takes a better stroke, and is more difficult to follow scratch on a shot like this unless the money ball is deep into the jaws. I realize that when the nerves are juiced, and the heartbeat can be felt in your throat, it's hard to find confidence in cheating a pocket, but to be honestly brute...............it's an ability that must be learned.
dave
 
PKM said:
At the risk of asking a dumb question, I wanted to see what you think about this shot, say it's perfectly straight-in. I know for a lot of you this would be trivially easy, but would you shoot a stop shot or use a drag draw shot to slow roll it? I'd be less worried about the scratch with a stop shot, but you've got to hit it pretty hard so if you're slightly off you might rattle it (or I should say, I might rattle it)

And yes, I know, avoid getting into this position!

CueTable Help

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Would I shoot a stop shot or a drag draw shot? Yes ?. Would I slow roll it? More than likely, no.

I'd hit with draw to stop the cueball. I certainly wouldn't slow roll it. Drag draw doesn't necesssarily equal slow. And stop shot isn't opposite to drag draw.

Fred
 
depends...

on what you say? the table, pocket size, cloth, balls, weather (!).

on the other hand, if i have limited knowledge of these factors, it's a big bangin' stop shot.

-s
 
no fear

If you slow roll the shot the cue ball might roll off,depending on the equipment.I would do a stop shot!!THe shot itsn't that hard and it would help your nerves in the long,I've tried to roll balls in many times and had something happen be it me or the table.
 
I don't think you ever draw drag or slow roll this ball when you can stop shot.

It might feel like you shoot with more accuracy if you don't hit the CB as hard, but you don't - the straightness of your stroke is the same, and shooting it slower (even draw-drag speed) just increases the odds that some small flaw in the table will steer the cue ball off course.

This is a medium-firm shot if you hit low on the CB, and I don't think you start losing significant accuracy unless you're shooting very firm, or very firm + adding english.
 
I'd pop that in with medium force and stop the cb right there. BTW, a lot of time on shots like this, I find a spot beyond the ob on the pocket and aim the cue tip at it rather than at a point on the ob.
 
acedotcom said:
I'd pop that in with medium force and stop the cb right there. BTW, a lot of time on shots like this, I find a spot beyond the ob on the pocket and aim the cue tip at it rather than at a point on the ob.
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Plus one.:D
 
In the shot you have diagramed it would be best to cheat the pocket and shoot a medium to firm stroke.
You definitely want to aim the 8 ball at a specific point off center from the pocket and if you stoke it straight you will NOT follow it in.

To see for your self what this is like....TRY to follow it in with the cue ball.
Following the 8 into the pocket requires a perfectly straight stroke and dead on contact with the 8 ball.
Most people can not do it on purpose...they can only do it by accident in which case there is always that possibility.
To avoid following the cue ball into the pocket ONLY requires you hit the 8 a hair off center which will deflect the cue ball away from the pocket.

Cheat the pocket and put it in with your normal medium firm stroke!
Forget the draw, the stop or the slow roll shots they just will increase the odds of you missing the shot!
 
This isn't a dumb question AT ALL. In fact, this is one of the more intelligent questions ever asked in this forum. It's a standard shot and it's one that many people do not shoot correctly.

As for your answer, you have to play the stop-shot here which requires a firm stroke. Yes, there is an added element of risk when you hit a shot hard BUT there is also risk in hitting it soft. It could roll off. By hitting it firm, you can at least eliminate the scatch possibility.

You should practice shots like these routinely and do what you can to make sure you're comfortable them. Being comfortable with long and straight in shots can really help your nine-ball game and simplifying your position play.
 
Unless you've got a really bad stroke that totally falls apart when hitting the CB with speed, this is a real no-brainer. Hit that shot firmly and confidently with low english (low enough to make sure the CB's not rolling forward at all at contact, not low enough to risk miscue), making sure to stay down and freeze on the finish of your stroke. If you can't consistently pocket that ball and stop the CB or draw back a little (which is quite harmless from that angle) using that method, then you really need to examine your stroke. If you roll it or use a soft draw-drag, anything can happen. If you shoot it firm, your stroke controls the outcome of the shot.

-Andrew
 
PKM said:
At the risk of asking a dumb question, I wanted to see what you think about this shot, say it's perfectly straight-in. I know for a lot of you this would be trivially easy, but would you shoot a stop shot or use a drag draw shot to slow roll it? I'd be less worried about the scratch with a stop shot, but you've got to hit it pretty hard so if you're slightly off you might rattle it (or I should say, I might rattle it)
Click to expand...
If you watch the pros play, they very seldom slow roll anything, even on routine shots or "easy" shots. Check out your accustats tapes or ESPN and pay particular attention to how the pros shoot the 9 - virtually no slow rolls. This is a result of many of factors, but most importantly, a firm stoke is more accurate. NOT a HARD stroke, but a firm one. This is commonly referred to as "stroke speed" -> and is the speed that you are most comfortable with. I've also heard it referred to as a medium stroke, cinch stroke, pop shot, etc.

As diagrammed, a stop shot can be executed without much force. You really don't have to hit it hard to get the ball to stop.

Another reason not to slow roll is that the cue ball (or object ball) can roll off if the table is slightly uneven. A firm stroke will cure that.


-td
 
There is no reason to slow roll, drag draw, or cheat the pocket on this shot, all of which unnecessarily complicate the shot and just make it more likely that you'll miss. The most accurate way to make this shot is just to shoot a firm straight-in stop shot.
 
Everyone keeps recommending a stop shot! That is fine if you can execute it at will with confidence and if you stop the cue ball you don't have to worry about a possible scratch by following or getting a weird bounce off the rail into a side pocket!

A good long controlled stop shot is dependent on a straight dependable stroke. It is also important to hit the center of the 8 ball on a long straight in stop shot attempt.....that is tougher than it sound!

I deduce from the question that you are not comfortable with a long straight in stop shot....most people are not so that doesn't make you different.

I stick with my original recommendation....medium firm stroke and cheat the pocket slightly, be sure to aim at a specific point so that the cue ball contacts the 8 ball VERY slightly off center and you CAN NOT follow it in....try if if you don't believe me, set the shot up and try to follow the 8 into the pocket on purpose. If you can do that consistently then you should be able to execute the stop shot you are looking for, if not cheat the pocket and do that with confidence that you will NOT follow the 8 into the pocket.
 
Thanks for the replies, I figured the stop shot would be the recommendation. One reason I asked is I botched a similar shot recently, and also on poor cloth you've got to whack it a little harder to get the necessary draw. And BigRig you make a good point, you'll probably end up cheating the pocket even if you're not trying.

I've been practicing my straight-ins, they're getting better!
 
Even for a ball banger like me that's easy, shoot a stop shot. If the cue ball was on the rail then you would consider slow rolling it or cheating the pocket.
 
BigRigTom said:
... I stick with my original recommendation....medium firm stroke and cheat the pocket slightly, be sure to aim at a specific point so that the cue ball contacts the 8 ball VERY slightly off center and you CAN NOT follow it in.... ..
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Except in special cases, I think it is a very bad idea to recommend cheating the pocket. Each of us shoots with some errors, and if you aim to one side of the pocket and make an error in that same direction, you will miss a shot you would not have missed if you had been shooting for the center of the pocket.

I think the argument for playing to the center of the pocket goes double for long shots unless the ball is hanging in the jaws.

As for players being unable to make a stop shot on the long diagonal, if anyone reading this has that problem, they need to develop their stroke to the point they can do that reliably. Only if they can't get to that point in a few practice sessions should they consider the risky alternative of cheating the pocket on a long shot and only with the realization that they are trying to run with crutches.
 
PKM said:
At the risk of asking a dumb question, I wanted to see what you think about this shot, say it's perfectly straight-in. ...
Click to expand...
A factor that hasn't been considered yet is whether the shooter has a problem with unintended side spin on the cue ball. If that's the case, a stop shot will cause the most throw from that unintended spin (if it happens). Such a player is probably better off shooting either a slight run-through or a slight draw shot. In the position shown, the run-through risks a scratch.

Of course, such a player should work on his fundamentals and find the center of the cue ball and get rid of the unintended side spin, but if he has not yet completed that process, and is facing such a shot in a game, I think he is better off playing the shot with at least a few inches of draw.
 
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