Looking at Shafts
- Thread starter ace911
- Start date
I look at shafts all through the cutting process, and very early throw away the shafts I know I won't use. In this order, I look for straightness of grain, major color defects, tightness of grain. Straightness of grain is number one. Next is color defects. I don't mind sugar lines but hate mineral spots, and don't care for sap/heart variations. I let things near the joint by with no problem, but anything near the tip is bad. Next would be tightness of grain, which is a general indication of stiffness, but not a lock down sure teller. Tight grain looks nice, too.
I might add that I also pay very close attention to the way the wood cuts. Sometimes the grain will fray & fuzz up, generally indicating crappy wood. Sometimes it cuts like wax, indicating great wood. This has nothing to do with color, grain straightness or grain count. It's the quality of the wood on a molecular level, and in my opinion is the most important grading aspect of all.
I might add that I also pay very close attention to the way the wood cuts. Sometimes the grain will fray & fuzz up, generally indicating crappy wood. Sometimes it cuts like wax, indicating great wood. This has nothing to do with color, grain straightness or grain count. It's the quality of the wood on a molecular level, and in my opinion is the most important grading aspect of all.
You are going to get about as many different answers on this question as there are CMs. You can also add weight, and tone to your list of qualifying characteristics.ace911 said:
This might make a nice poll. Ask which is the most important quality, or group up some of them up and ask which are the top three, or something like that.
Mr H
dave sutton
Banned
weight is important but almost last on the list. grain runout is #1. you can have a nice color 4oz+ shaft that is cut wrong and it will play like crap.
i also dont mind some matks as long and its not in the top 12 inches by the ferrule. weight also dpends on the taper. my skip weston is 13mm very long taper only weight 3.6oz each. normally i wouldnt consider them GREAT shafts but when you hit with them they are the best shafts ive ever seen.
so heres my list
1. grain runout
2. grain tightness
3. color/marks
4. weight
i also dont mind some matks as long and its not in the top 12 inches by the ferrule. weight also dpends on the taper. my skip weston is 13mm very long taper only weight 3.6oz each. normally i wouldnt consider them GREAT shafts but when you hit with them they are the best shafts ive ever seen.
so heres my list
1. grain runout
2. grain tightness
3. color/marks
4. weight
i look for straight grain and consistent grain first.i actually think the consistency is the most important then straightness.the straightness is important but lots of shafts with less than prefectly straight grain stay straight.then i look at tightness of grain.i like them to be more than 10 rpi.i don't really use weight as a grading factor unless the shaft is exceptionally light.
i also like to look at the cuts i make on them to see how they look on the cut spot.anything fluffy and airy is no bueno.
obviously you don't want any shafts with large brown or discolored marks near the ferrule.
i do bounce most of my shafts but really i am just making sure they sound the same or like i think they should sound.i do now match them up in categories of 440 tone or 420 tone or whatever nuimbers they use to tone them.i just make sure they sound normal.
looking at weight on finished shafts is pretty useless.as Dave said the taper will dictate the weight as will joint diameter,inserts,etc.
i also like to look at the cuts i make on them to see how they look on the cut spot.anything fluffy and airy is no bueno.
obviously you don't want any shafts with large brown or discolored marks near the ferrule.
i do bounce most of my shafts but really i am just making sure they sound the same or like i think they should sound.i do now match them up in categories of 440 tone or 420 tone or whatever nuimbers they use to tone them.i just make sure they sound normal.
looking at weight on finished shafts is pretty useless.as Dave said the taper will dictate the weight as will joint diameter,inserts,etc.
Looking at shaft weight aids in determining weight & balance of the cue. For instance, if a butt is heavy, i'll use lightweight shafts. If it's light, then i'll use heavier shafts. It's also important in matching shafts, especially for those of us who generally supply two shafts per cue.
dave sutton
Banned
qbilder said:
yes i forgot to add that. weight isnt too important unless very light but i try to match the shafts as best as possible. size and weight ratio. i generally lean twards heavier shafts bc it helps keep the weight up front. i dont change tenons only pin in a joint. SS or aluminum.
heavier shafts play/feel better IMO
dave sutton
Banned
I like to be even closer. No more then 1/4 oz. Very light shafts are break shafts only
How do you determine the straightness of grain, grain runout, and the tightness of grain. Also growth rings, I a bit confused about that... When something has a lot of growth rings, is it considered tight grain becasue you can't see the rings?
Sometimes I see shafts, and there are a lot of waves in it, does that mean it is a bad shaft?
Also I was told that if waves go up on one side of the shaft, and then go down on another side of the shaft, it is no good. What do you think?
Sometimes I see shafts, and there are a lot of waves in it, does that mean it is a bad shaft?
Also I was told that if waves go up on one side of the shaft, and then go down on another side of the shaft, it is no good. What do you think?
The people who think a shaft has to have a certain weight to it to play good crack me up. I mainly weigh my shafts to make sure that ones going with the same cue are the same. I hear all the time that shafts should weigh as close to 4 ounces or more as possible.
I just got a shaft in from somebody to do a tip on. I normally don't do this, but it was for a customer who bought a cue and has another one on order. The shaft had a brass insert in it, so out of curiosity, I put it on the scale. The shaft weighed 3.7 oz. I grabbed a brass insert I had and put it on the scale and it was .4 oz. That means without the brass insert, the shaft would have been around 3.3 oz. This was from a high dollar cue, not some piece of junk. The shaft looked very nice, but I have customers who would reject that based on the weight if there was no brass insert.
I guess what I'm saying is weight can be deceiving.
I just got a shaft in from somebody to do a tip on. I normally don't do this, but it was for a customer who bought a cue and has another one on order. The shaft had a brass insert in it, so out of curiosity, I put it on the scale. The shaft weighed 3.7 oz. I grabbed a brass insert I had and put it on the scale and it was .4 oz. That means without the brass insert, the shaft would have been around 3.3 oz. This was from a high dollar cue, not some piece of junk. The shaft looked very nice, but I have customers who would reject that based on the weight if there was no brass insert.
I guess what I'm saying is weight can be deceiving.
Shaft weight:taper ratio is a sure fire method of determining density. If you use the same taper & size for every shaft, then you can easily begin to zero in on the weight that most often represents a great playing shaft. For me, I cut all of my shafts with the same taper & cut them down to 13.1-13.15mm before final sand. My shafts range from 3.5oz up to 4.7+ oz. Over the past years & hundreds of shafts, I have found that the 3.9-4.1oz shafts are consistently the greatest playing shafts. So weight does indeed factor in a bit when quality is in question.
Now take my 4oz shaft & retaper it to a long pro taper, and it becomes 3.6oz. It's still a great shaft, just a different shape & weight. But at my size & taper, it would be optimum density at 4.0oz. So the taper shape & diameter factor in to the dynamics. It's up to each builder to find his own "prime" shafts & place importance in what he/she has experienced to be the most determining factors. It's different for each of us because we all have different styles, preferences, sizes, shapes, etc. For me, it's never an exact science, not yet at least. I play it one shaft at a time & depend on experience more than rules to tell me if a shaft is good or not. There are of course basic guidlines to begin with, but nothing is ever set in stone.
Now take my 4oz shaft & retaper it to a long pro taper, and it becomes 3.6oz. It's still a great shaft, just a different shape & weight. But at my size & taper, it would be optimum density at 4.0oz. So the taper shape & diameter factor in to the dynamics. It's up to each builder to find his own "prime" shafts & place importance in what he/she has experienced to be the most determining factors. It's different for each of us because we all have different styles, preferences, sizes, shapes, etc. For me, it's never an exact science, not yet at least. I play it one shaft at a time & depend on experience more than rules to tell me if a shaft is good or not. There are of course basic guidlines to begin with, but nothing is ever set in stone.
I guess to each his own.
Kerry Zeiler matches his shafts by tone. No two shafts go together unless their tone is the same or very very similar.
2/10ths of an ounce here there can still be fixed easily.
I've been doing the same thing since.
You can have two shafts with the same weight and ring count, but might not have the same feel at all.
Kerry Zeiler matches his shafts by tone. No two shafts go together unless their tone is the same or very very similar.
2/10ths of an ounce here there can still be fixed easily.
I've been doing the same thing since.
You can have two shafts with the same weight and ring count, but might not have the same feel at all.
By ear.masonh said:
I believe Harvey Martin was the first one to do it. Harvey was Tad's mentor.
Tad saw Kerry do it once and smiled.