Looking at the pocket

jasonlaus

jasonlaus

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How many of you do not have to look at the pocket to make a ball? I mean walk up and only look at the OB and pocket it.

Give it a try and report back, I think you'll be amazed as far as good players APA 7's(8 ball) and above(cause we all know theres about 25 gears above the basic APA 7) will be able to pocket balls without looking at the pocket.
Jason
 
yeah it's possible to do this. Many people can do it. All of us have had those whack balls in sessions where we don't bother to measure anything or think long about it.

Put a curtain up and try it though and you might find that it alters the situation and reduces the pocketing percentage considerably.

Meaning that perhaps the pocket is in the equation for "feel" players but it's just that their brain makes the needed decisions in a millisecond when in whack-em-in mode.

Whereas for some players having a system lets them line up without looking at the pocket as a conscious choice and they can pocket balls under a curtain to a higher level than a feel player can.

I think....would need to do some comparisons on video to see if that holds up.
 
jasonlaus said:
How many of you do not have to look at the pocket to make a ball? I mean walk up and only look at the OB and pocket it.

Give it a try and report back, I think you'll be amazed as far as good players APA 7's(8 ball) and above(cause we all know theres about 25 gears above the basic APA 7) will be able to pocket balls without looking at the pocket.
Jason
Click to expand...

Well, you could always visualize a ghost pocket like Efren says.
You should know where the pocket is .
Often you need to decide where to hit it for cue ball control reasons.
Or in CJ Wiley's case, to apply TOI?
 
JB Cases said:
yeah it's possible to do this. Many people can do it. All of us have had those whack balls in sessions where we don't bother to measure anything or think long about it.
Put a curtain up and try it though and you might find that it alters the situation and reduces the pocketing percentage considerably.
Meaning that perhaps the pocket is in the equation for "feel" players but it's just that their brain makes the needed decisions in a millisecond when in whack-em-in mode.
Whereas for some players having a system lets them line up without looking at the pocket as a conscious choice and they can pocket balls under a curtain to a higher level than a feel player can.
I think....would need to do some comparisons on video to see if that holds up.
Click to expand...
If a shooter is using CTE angles....15, 30, 45, 60 and lining up properly there is no need to look at or "aim at" any pocket.
A judgment can be quickly made in a second, mentally, on which angle to use.
I thought you were a CTE student...am I missing something important here?
Stan promotes four angles that are all we need to get the job done. (Having a decent stroke in all this is a given....or no method of aiming works very good.)
That's the simplicity of the system that I admire the most. It gives me pretty good odds and a slightly favorable edge over the guesswork player. Since I'm not all that good at the game anyway.
Before I put this CTE thing into use, I always said I shoot just as bad for fun as I do for money...never worried about 'pressure' since I never made bets I couldn't afford to lose. Things have started changing for the better, now.
The naysayers, as usual, won't have a clue.
Your comments, por favor....?
 
GoldenFlash said:
If a shooter is using CTE angles....15, 30, 45, 60 and lining up properly there is no need to look at or "aim at" any pocket.
A judgment can be quickly made in a second, mentally, on which angle to use.
I thought you were a CTE student...am I missing something important here?
Stan promotes four angles that are all we need to get the job done. (Having a decent stroke in all this is a given....or no method of aiming works very good.)
That's the simplicity of the system that I admire the most. It gives me pretty good odds and a slightly favorable edge over the guesswork player. Since I'm not all that good at the game anyway.
Before I put this CTE thing into use, I always said I shoot just as bad for fun as I do for money...never worried about 'pressure' since I never made bets I couldn't afford to lose. Things have started changing for the better, now.
The naysayers, as usual, won't have a clue.
Your comments, por favor....?
Click to expand...

Yes you are missing that it's POSSIBLE for anyone to make shots without looking at the pocket - just walk up and shoot. But how consistent is it for most people?

Jason asked who does this. Many do. Some do it very well and consistently and others miss a lot trying to "aim" without actually consciously aiming.

I think just about decent players have had times where they walk up to a table and throw balls out and just start shooting them in with no "effort" expended on lining up anything. Just one stroking with no hesitation. Kind of like driving home with no real recollection of how you got there, just letting the brain do it's thing without the ego getting in the way.

My point was that while this obviously can be done and works for some it doesn't mean that it works for everyone. CTE players don't need to look at pocket as we know but they do need to consciously align themselves according to the thickness of the shot angle. Over time this process becomes automatic as well or it should. The brain, once trained, develops an autopilot for every learned process so that the conscious mind need not actually think and go through the steps one by one every time. But there is literally nothing wrong with consciously and deliberately going through the steps each time if that's what it takes to get the results.

I watched a PAINFUL match between Johny Archer and Ronnie O' Sullivan yesterday. An IPT 8 Ball match. Anyone who watches Ronnie play snooker knows he steps up and fires and makes decisions in split seconds with seemingly no need to ever stop and think over a shot once he gets going in a rack (frame). Johnny on the other hand, as we all could hear through the fact that he was miked up, literally talks himself through every single shot in painful detail. To the point where the viewer is screaming at the TV - shoot already SHOOT. (btw painful only in terms of listening to the deliberation but instructive because of the deliberation)

But Johnny ran the first four racks and pretty much every rack after that in which he got a shot. Ronnie was not awed by anything Johnny did in terms of thinking Johnny did anything he could not do. He was however very respectful of the fact that Johnny ran out when he had the opportunity to do so in a masterful way. Ronnie was clear to say that regardless of how one gets there clearing the racks is what happens at that level.

I hope that elaborates on my point a bit more clearly.
 
jasonlaus said:
How many of you do not have to look at the pocket to make a ball? I mean walk up and only look at the OB and pocket it.

Give it a try and report back, I think you'll be amazed as far as good players APA 7's(8 ball) and above(cause we all know theres about 25 gears above the basic APA 7) will be able to pocket balls without looking at the pocket.
Jason
Click to expand...

I happen to use CTE. So, I only use the pocket when standing to establish the correct CTE visual for the shot. (A/B/C, inside,outside). Once I've stablished that, the execution of the shot itself does not technically need to involve the pocket. I don't look at the pocket when I shoot, I'm looking at the CB/OB. Now that said, it is nice to have the pocket in my peripheral vision when I'm down on the shot. This is a reassurance that I did everything correctly. If something doesn't look right, or even way off, say I chose an incorrect visual, or I did not come down into the shot cleanly, the pocket will help me identify this so I can stand up and start over. This is most useful for newcomers to the system/game, as this happens less and less as your proficiency gets better.
 
jasonlaus said:
How many of you do not have to look at the pocket to make a ball? I mean walk up and only look at the OB and pocket it.

Give it a try and report back, I think you'll be amazed as far as good players APA 7's(8 ball) and above(cause we all know theres about 25 gears above the basic APA 7) will be able to pocket balls without looking at the pocket.
Jason
Click to expand...

You still see the direction of the needed cut. The(seeing the) pocket being in the background allows this to happen. With a curtain this wont happen, the rails kinda help and the ball positioning on the table helps but wont give exactness like the pocket in the background. I do several types of pocketing and one requires no aiming of the ball to the pocket. My(the cb) body to the ob is a straight line, then i branch off that line to desired angle will the ob. Sending ob down the branched line. Dont need to see the pocket, its in my peripheral vision , just send ob down the line to it.
I know, it dont make sense.
 
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If you had laser beams coming out of your pupils, you would notice they would hit the cloth long before the pocket on a shot where the object ball is mid-table and the cue ball at the first diamond. Your line of vision does not allow you to see the pocket, but you know the contact point you want to hit on the object ball. Of course you look at the pocket in order to establish the contact point on the object ball.
 
jasonlaus said:
How many of you do not have to look at the pocket to make a ball? I mean walk up and only look at the OB and pocket it.



Give it a try and report back, I think you'll be amazed as far as good players APA 7's(8 ball) and above(cause we all know theres about 25 gears above the basic APA 7) will be able to pocket balls without looking at the pocket.

Jason
Click to expand...



Yea I'm with Jb I'm sure many people can do it...I don't and have done the whole blind half the table thing....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mohrt said:
I happen to use CTE. So, I only use the pocket when standing to establish the correct CTE visual for the shot. (A/B/C, inside,outside). Once I've stablished that, the execution of the shot itself does not technically need to involve the pocket. I don't look at the pocket when I shoot, I'm looking at the CB/OB. Now that said, it is nice to have the pocket in my peripheral vision when I'm down on the shot. This is a reassurance that I did everything correctly. If something doesn't look right, or even way off, say I chose an incorrect visual, or I did not come down into the shot cleanly, the pocket will help me identify this so I can stand up and start over. This is most useful for newcomers to the system/game, as this happens less and less as your proficiency gets better.
Click to expand...

Hmm. You sound an awful lot like a feel player, mohrt. :p
 
Dan White said:
Hmm. You sound an awful lot like a feel player, mohrt. :p
Click to expand...


We are human, we make errors. It's what makes pool a game. Even with a perfect way to get on a shot, it isn't always perfect.

[edit] a feel player would use the pocket to line up the shot. I made a clear distinction of using it as a second check on an already lined up shot. quite different IMHO.
 
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mohrt said:
We are human, we make errors. It's what makes pool a game. Even with a perfect way to get on a shot, it isn't always perfect.

[edit] a feel player would use the pocket to line up the shot. I made a clear distinction of using it as a second check on an already lined up shot. quite different IMHO.
Click to expand...

If you are not a feel player, how do you know what a feel players does?

This is just your perception of what a feel player does.

The are very few shots where the pocket is not in ones field of view. Because of this, it is not necessary to look at the pocket in order to use it on the subconscious level.

Field of view and depth of field are greatly overlooked when discussing the use of vision.
 
duckie said:
If you are not a feel player, how do you know what a feel players does?



This is just your perception of what a feel player does.



The are very few shots where the pocket is not in ones field of view. Because of this, it is not necessary to look at the pocket in order to use it on the subconscious level.



Field of view and depth of field are greatly overlooked when discussing the use of vision.
Click to expand...



Yes I'd agree, even if we couldn't see the pocket we can see the rest of the table and it wouldn't take our subconscious much to fig out where the pocket is without seeing it....we generally can point pretty close to where other objects are in day out home without seeing them at all and be pretty accurate.....same idea


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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