Loree Jon Snooze.............

Icon of Sin said:
It's not cheating regardless of what you think. It's not written anywhere that I have to tell you anything about the match other then "Push" or "you're on two"

The other player should not be rewarded for their ignorance.
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So you don't mind if I crouch down right behind you on every one of your shots to make sure you don't accidently tap the cue ball with your tip on a practice stroke? And if it's ok, I'm going to stand right up next to the table (instead of respectfully in my chair) and police every one of your shots for the slightest hint of a foul. Is that cool? But don't worry, I realize pool was originally termed "a Gentleman's game" by Royals and I have more class, honesty and respect for my opponent than you obviously so feel free to just sit back, relax and have no worries. I don't need to win that way and will ALWAYS and forever call fouls on myself. The Pool Gods love it!
 
garczar said:
Anybody see that last nite? LJH comes from behind to go hill-hill with J. Baretta. JB fails to get a rail, LJH snoozes it and ends up losing when JB makes combo to win. Gotta pay attention when there's no ref. Brutal. Start at 2hr30min point: https://www.facebook.com/UpStateAL/videos/2414378728572168/?fref=mentions
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Intriguing topic - over 100 responses in just 24+ hours since this thread was started. In a match between two very experienced players, in this case both veteran female pro players, there will always be some conflicting opinions as to whether the shooter should call a foul on themselves if their opponent does not call it on them, in the hill-hill game of an elimination match. It's easy for us to say we would do the right thing and call the foul on ourself, but in the heat of the final hill-hill game at 3am in the morning, who really knows for absolute certainty what we'd do? We likely may never know whether or not JB knew she had fouled, so it's not fair to speculate as to this person's character and integrity based on this one incident, unless she has a reputation/history for trying to away with whatever she can in match, which I don't believe she does. It is notable that although both match commentators realized it was a foul, neither one of them ever mentioned that JB should have called the foul on herself. It's kind of impressive to me that of all the remaining diehard spectators still watching that final match of the night, that they all seemed to know it was not appropriate for anyone to yell out that it was a foul - that it's up to the players to call it.

The bottom line is that the seated opponent is ultimately responsible for paying attention while their opponent is shooting, and to call the foul on the shooter if they witness the foul and the shooter fails to call it on themselves. Clearly LJH did not, and I'm guessing she accepts that it was her own fault by not paying close enough attention. You could certainly see at the end of the tape, after the match ended, a couple of spectators approached LJH in her chair and informed her what happened. Her body language indicated she didn't realize it was a foul, but she didn't appear to be upset that JB didn't call it on herself, and likely realizes it was her own fault. I'm curious whether the two players had an opportunity to discuss it since then.
 
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oneshotwiss said:
So you don't mind if I crouch down right behind you on every one of your shots to make sure you don't accidently tap the cue ball with your tip on a practice stroke? And if it's ok, I'm going to stand right up next to the table (instead of respectfully in my chair) and police every one of your shots for the slightest hint of a foul. Is that cool? But don't worry, I realize pool was originally termed "a Gentleman's game" by Royals and I have more class, honesty and respect for my opponent than you obviously so feel free to just sit back, relax and have no worries. I don't need to win that way and will ALWAYS and forever call fouls on myself. The Pool Gods love it!
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You know that's not what I'm implying, but go ahead and take it to extremes. Feel free to do that in a Poolhall. Would make my day seeing that. I even stated that if my opponent wasn't watching and if I was asked I would admit that it was foul.

Keep up your White Knight posting. You do look very Noble.
 
jimmyco said:
I am still fairly new to pool, so please forgive my ignorance in asking; in a hill-hill game where both players are facing two and out, why wasn't a ref available?
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Because pool tournaments are nearly always low-budget operations managed by one or two people with some number of helpers, often volunteers.

To have referees, someone would have to put in the effort of finding them, probably training them, and scheduling them. And the refs might want to be paid. And have a hotel room provided if the location is remote, like Turning Stone.

At Derby City, which is a nine-day event, there are no referees, more or less, and you might have two champions playing with some amount of animosity.

In the past at the US Open 9-ball there were "area" referees who had to cover six or ten tables, but sometimes there was no referee in one of the smaller tournament rooms. I think the new US Open may have refs for every table.

In the old days when 14.1 was the main game, each table at major events would have a ref calling each shot and one or two scorekeepers.
 
Honestly I think they both spaced it and because it wasn't a "bump" and multiple balls moving, they didn't pay close attention.

Intentionally? I don't think so.
 
dnixon said:
I just spoke with Laurie Jon And she said neither one of them I knew it was a bad hit.
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If they discussed it afterwards which it sounds like they did, obviously she is going to deny it - even moreso if the two get along and respect each other, which I assume they do. These are two veteran pro players in a hill-hill game of a huge tournament, and if they both missed it when many observers didn't, that's very strange indeed.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
If they discussed it afterwards which it sounds like they did, obviously she is going to deny it - even moreso if the two get along and respect each other, which I assume they do. These are two veteran pro players in a hill-hill game of a huge tournament, and if they both missed it when many observers didn't, that's very strange.
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I watched it live and missed it.
 
TheLoneSilencer said:
The player chairs are practically lower than the table there, so it is easy for LJJ to have missed the hit.

Your stance though says a lot about your character that is for sure.
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I don't agree with the first sentence of your post. The player's chairs are on the same level the table is on. The table surface is roughly 2-1/2 feet above the carpet and her eye level from her chair had to be at roughly 18" above the table surface. No they are not high spectator chairs, but they are standard chairs located 8-feet from the side of the table and the shooter (shooting from the head end of the table) was not in any way blocking her view of any part of the table surface or any of the rolling balls.
 
us820 said:
I watched it live and missed it.
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In all due respect, you weren't one of the players involved in the match. Did the outcome of winning or losing this hill-hill game affect you in any significant way compared to how it affected either of these two players?
 
ChrisinNC said:
In all due respect, you weren't one of the players involved in the match. Did the outcome of winning or losing this hill-hill game affect you in any significant way compared to how it affected either of these two players?
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With all due respect the outcome of the marc did not affect anyone who has commented in this thread....unless you were gambling on it.
 
I don’t know either player personally but you would have to be fairly brazen to try to get away with not calling that foul on yourself when your match is being streamed and will be posted online later. Especially if you are a sponsored player. For that reason alone I have to assume Barretta didn’t see it.

It’s similar to when Ronnie O’Sullivan didn’t call a foul on himself earlier in the season. Morals or not, you wouldn’t to try to get away with that while you have commentators and spectators at home. Someone will notice it.
 
ChrisinNC said:
In all due respect, you weren't one of the players involved in the match. Did the outcome of winning or losing this hill-hill game affect you in any significant way compared to how it affected either of these two players?
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Then why did LJH miss it? Thanks for proving our point.
Jason
 
Then how does Sossei 3 fouling because Shane forgot to tell him he's on 2 compare with this? No way he didnt know.....or maybe he honestly didnt - but that should never stop all you tough guys that know what's in a person's head from trashing him.
Jason
 
jimmyco said:
Thank you Bob, for that informative response.

I really had no clue.
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To add to what Bob said --- even if there was a ref nearby, they wouldn't just suddenly appear for the last game just because it was a hill-hill match. It would be inappropriate for a ref to suddenly start to referee a match after 99 percent of the match wasn't refereed. Just because it was a hill-hill game doesn't warrant a sudden change in format. It could also have an effect of sharking the players.

The players could have requested a ref for the final game and if one was nearby, then they would have complied.
 
jasonlaus said:
Then how does Sossei 3 fouling because Shane forgot to tell him he's on 2 compare with this? No way he didnt know.....or maybe he honestly didnt - but that should never stop all you tough guys that know what's in a person's head from trashing him.
Jason
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I didn't see what you're referring to but in 3foul if you aren't notified your 3rd foul is not a loss and you still have two on you. At least that's how we've always done it. Don't know what Zuglan does.
 
Jennifer deserves the benefit of the doubt. She is a stand-up player and person. You have to take the player's personality into account when having discussions like this. People don't suddenly turn into cheaters. If they're cheaters, they've cheated before. She is not a cheater.

Gossip like this hurts people and their reputations, particularly with sponsors or potential sponsors.
 
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