Loree Jon Snooze.............

[PoolBum]

Proof? lol there’s a video of every second of it.

When there's no referee and it's an obvious foul I think the player at the table should be responsible for knowing they fouled. So, even if JB somehow didn't know that she fouled, I think she should have been paying attention and should have known that she fouled.

If LJ had asked JB after the shot, for example, whether or not it was a foul, I think it would be JB's responsibility to tell her that she did foul, which of course would require knowing that she fouled, and so paying attention during the shot. The player not at the table simply may not be in a position to see whether or not it was a foul.

 

[ShootingArts]

watching the shot

My slow net connection finally let me watch the shot so I am addressing that shot instead of theory now.

This was a shot with things taking place over a fairly wide area of the table after the hit, three and a half or four feet. Jennifer was of course at the table where she had a fairly small field of view.

All of us have locked onto the balls rolling that we were interested in to see if we got a safety or pocketed a ball, not seeing what was happening that we weren't focused on. Only Jennifer knows if she knew she had fouled. Body language from what I can see on the video isn't conclusive. No telltale signs indicating she saw that no ball hit a rail in half a dozen replays, then again maybe she is just smooth.

In over half a century watching sports I have yet to see even paid referees call fouls they didn't at least think they saw. Here the lack of a call seems likely to be an error where both the shooter and their opponent slept the call. Had either player noticed the foul I think it would have been accepted politely. Obviously the shooter gets the benefit of a mistaken no call. Without further proof, that is what this seems to be, an error rather than malicious intent.

If anyone can find repeated circumstances of unethical behavior on JB's part then we can at least speculate she knew she had fouled. Otherwise over two-hundred posts seem to be much ado about nothing. Not that I mind, at least we are talking about pool!

Hu

 

[NINEBALLART]

There are a couple of players in our BCA league that when they foul, they walk away from the table, keeping their back to you and go start talking to another player...You look their way and see them talking and their back to you..If you yell out their name and they turn around and you say, "So is it ball in hand"? They will say, "Oh yeah..Ball in hand"...
If you don't ask they will just stay talking to that person until you shot and miss , without you knowing it was ball in hand...That's how some people play.....

 

[ShootingArts]

yep!

There are a couple of players in our BCA league that when they foul, they walk away from the table, keeping their back to you and go start talking to another player...You look their way and see them talking and their back to you..If you yell out their name and they turn around and you say, "So is it ball in hand"? They will say, "Oh yeah..Ball in hand"...
If you don't ask they will just stay talking to that person until you shot and miss , without you knowing it was ball in hand...That's how some people play.....

Yep, I think we have all encountered this kind of people. If we haven't, we will. Get over artists that might not cheat but they will crowd the limits! If I give up ball in hand and the other player isn't around for a minute I usually find a place the cue ball will sit on the rail. I sometimes get distracted myself and don't want there to be any doubt. This keeps someone from having to search around for the cue ball.

Hu

 

[spartan]

Zero possibility she was unaware of her foul. Her body language said it all.

JC

Agree. Not sure that her body language says it though.
Folks who say JB did not know it was foul either (a) did not watch the video or (b) are big JB fans or (c) are blind as bats.

It starts at 2hr 41 min
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php&_rdr

JB is looking right down area of table where the balls are moving. LJ on other hand is seated and may not have clear view of CB when it comes to rest so it is possible she may have missed the foul.

IMHO, I would roughly quantify % probability as follows:
JB
Scenario A (95%) She saw the foul but preferred to keep quiet or leave it to LJ to decide whether to take BIH
Scenario B- (5%) She did not see the foul

LJ
Scenario A (20%) She did not see foul from her seated view
Scenario B (80%) She saw the foul but did not want to take BIH because
(a) she is too nice to her friend and did not want the match to end with BIH out and/or
(b) JB did not call the foul and is too nice to ask JB and/or
(c) she is confident she can win without BIH

I would think cushion fouls are hardest to get away with especially when it is on video with bunch of spectators eyeing the balls ( though probably most were eyeing other things other than the balls ). Shirt fouls, object ball contact, double hit probably easier to get away with.

 

[PoolBum]

If anyone can find repeated circumstances of unethical behavior on JB's part then we can at least speculate she knew she had fouled. Otherwise over two-hundred posts seem to be much ado about nothing. Not that I mind, at least we are talking about pool!

Hu

I would disagree that there's no issue if she didn't realize she had fouled. When there's no referee I think the player at the table has a responsibility to know whether she has fouled or not, especially in an obvious case.

If you're in a major tournament kicking at a ball in a hill-hill elimination match, and there's no referee, you have to make sure that you make a legal shot. If you commit a foul and your opponent does not realize this, you have a responsibility to let your opponent know. Not paying attention does not relieve you of that responsibility.

 

[jasonlaus]

Agree. Not sure that her body language says it though.
Folks who say JB did not know it was foul either (a) did not watch the video or (b) are big JB fans or (c) are blind as bats.

It starts at 2hr 41 min
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php&_rdr

JB is looking right down area of table where the balls are moving. LJ on other hand is seated and may not have clear view of CB when it comes to rest so it is possible she may have missed the foul.

IMHO, I would roughly quantify % probability as follows:
JB
Scenario A (95%) She saw the foul but preferred to keep quiet or leave it to LJ to decide whether to take BIH
Scenario B- (5%) She did not see the foul

LJ
Scenario A (20%) She did not see foul from her seated view
Scenario B (80%) She saw the foul but did not want to take BIH because
(a) she is too nice to her friend and did not want the match to end with BIH out and/or
(b) JB did not call the foul and is too nice to ask JB and/or
(c) she is confident she can win without BIH

I would think cushion fouls are hardest to get away with especially when it is on video with bunch of spectators eyeing the balls ( though probably most were eyeing other things other than the balls ). Shirt fouls, object ball contact, double hit probably easier to get away with.

Not a soul in the audience said a word about a foul before or after the match finished.
Jason

 

[ChrisinNC]

Not a soul in the audience said a word about a foul before or after the match finished.
Jason

I disagree. While the tape is still running, it is pretty clear that a couple guys, one sitting right next to her during the match and another in an orange shirt came up to LJH while still in her chair after the match ended and informed her that she missed calling the foul. She looked completely puzzled, but not overly upset. She knew she had screwed up. Stuff happens, life goes on.

 

[shinobi]

I don't think your laser sighting is on, to be a ref you cannot be unemployed but what ever i don't expect any real responses from the banger crowd. See u in the peanut gallery. You joke about the state of pool and i don't find it funny. If u play me one pocket for $200.00 u can tell jokes till yer blue in the face, u would walk lighter - I promise. Konee-chi-wha?

1) "to be a ref you cannot be unemployed". Allow me to explain that concept to you. Someone has a job as a referee. Then they lose that job. And then, no wait, that's ... pretty much all there is to the explanation.

2) I wasn't joking about the "state of pool"

3) I responded to your absurd conspiracy theory, while referencing an even more absurd conspiracy theory of yours from the past. I'm not surprised you "don't find it funny"

4) I'm not Japanese, but even I know that "Konee-chi-wha?" means you are asking me "Hello/Good afternoon?". Thanks for asking.

5) Yes, you'd take my money if you played pool for money. I should hope that's true for you versus 99.9% of the AZ Billiards membership, but thanks for pointing it out.

 

[jasonlaus]

I disagree. While the tape is still running, it is pretty clear that a couple guys, one sitting right next to her during the match and another in an orange shirt came up to LJH while still in her chair after the match ended and informed her that she missed calling the foul. She looked completely puzzled, but not overly upset. She knew she had screwed up. Stuff happens, life goes on.

If you f'ing missed it, you f'ing missed it. Keep calling us scum bags. I'd love to play all of you.
Jason<---probably the most honest m'f'er 9n here.

 

[garczar]

If you f'ing missed it, you f'ing missed it. Keep calling us scum bags. I'd love to play all of you.
Jason<---probably the most honest m'f'er 9n here.

What was the phrase you hit me with 203 posts ago? Oh yeah, 'love crush'. What's with the "us"? You JB's brother/boyfriend/daddy/stalker? Get over it. She's been a polarizing figure in pool ever since she's showed up. Slowwwwwwww play, ENDLESS rack checking,etc. This foul/no foul episode will do nothing to help that. I'm done here. Enjoy your JB "love crush".

 

[canwin]

What was the phrase you hit me with 203 posts ago? Oh yeah, 'love crush'. What's with the "us"? You JB's brother/boyfriend/daddy/stalker? Get over it. She's been a polarizing figure in pool ever since she's showed up. Slowwwwwwww play, ENDLESS rack checking,etc. This foul/no foul episode will do nothing to help that. I'm done here. Enjoy your JB "love crush".

A winning at any cost mentality has cast a light on a dark subject. You can see, even if you win, you lose. If Baretta had lost by handing cueball to Loree without anybody telling her to, she'd have won more admiration, respect and trust from public opinion win or lose. The constant distracting dramatic rack checking also conveys a silent issue of mistrust.. look who cant be trusted! She'll learn unfortunately now the hard way. This to me just gives others of like mind the green light ..these blonde moments have been brought to you by. Canwin

 

[Quesports]

Not a soul in the audience said a word about a foul before or after the match finished.
Jason

I politely disagree with you here.
The bystander in a red shirt or sweater went right over to Loree and looks like he explained the foul to her. She raises her arms and shrugs her shoulders like she understood him. Her body actions look like she's saying, it's too late now. She then packed up cause it was all over at that point.

I should have said the spectator spoke to Loree after the match had ended not during or at the time of the foul..

 

[BRussell]

The only spectators we heard in real time were the commentators, and they immediately said "foul."

 

[ChrisinNC]

A winning at any cost mentality has cast a light on a dark subject. You can see, even if you win, you lose. If Baretta had lost by handing cueball to Loree without anybody telling her to, she'd have won more admiration, respect and trust from public opinion win or lose. The constant distracting dramatic rack checking also conveys a silent issue of mistrust.. look who cant be trusted! She'll learn unfortunately now the hard way. This to me just gives others of like mind the green light ..these blonde moments have been brought to you by. Canwin

I get your point, but honestly, her doing what you suggest she should have done in the first place, is absolutely nothing above or beyond what any pro player or any amateur tournament pool player should have automatically done in that situation - and certainly would not (as you suggest) have garnered her any special admiration for.

 

[canwin]

I get your point, but honestly, her doing what you suggest she should have done in the first place, is absolutely nothing above or beyond what any pro player or any amateur tournament pool player should have automatically done in that situation - and certainly would not (as you suggest) have garnered her any special admiration for.

To be fair, I worded the sentence as an IF situation as we know you must let your opponent be aware they failed to make a good shot IF you expect to get BIH. The realities of what you say are true tho. You cant rely on your opponent to make the calls for you no matter what catagory event you're in. Bettter call it on them while they're still at the table too. All this aside, it does stir the spectators up to see this on a streamed match in an unrefereed prof. event. I still think the ladies have shown alot of class reguardless!

 

[ChrisinNC]

To be fair, I worded the sentence as an IF situation as we know you must let your opponent be aware they failed to make a good shot IF you expect to get BIH. The realities of what you say are true tho. You cant rely on your opponent to make the calls for you no matter what catagory event you're in. Bettter call it on them while they're still at the table too. All this aside, it does stir the spectators up to see this on a streamed match in an unrefereed prof. event. I still think the ladies have shown alot of class reguardless!

Shown a lot of class - are you referring to the pro women players as a whole (which I would agree with) or the two players involved in this match? One of them clearly had about a 30 second lapse of class in which she had the opportunity to do the right thing, and didn't.

 

[canwin]

Shown a lot of class - are you referring to the pro women players as a whole (which I would agree with) or the two players involved in this match? One of them clearly had about a 30 second lapse of class in which she had the opportunity to do the right thing, and didn't.

I meant pro women players as a whole and as far as class goes. Baretta missed her opportunity to show some class.

 

[SBC]

Not holding your opponent's hand and pointing out an obvious foul on a shot they were looking right at, is considered "pulling a move" ? "Hey fellow professional player who's been playing this game forever, I just want to make sure you know that when a ball doesn't contact a rail, that's a foul. Make sure you take ball in hand. Would you like assistance with choosing where to put the cue ball?"

Gambling on the road you wouldn't get paid...
No way she didn't see it.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Gambling on the road you wouldn't get paid...
No way she didn't see it.

In a money match between two strangers, regardless of whether you're the homeroom player or the road player, if an opponent sleeps on a no rail foul like this and shooter doesn't tell them, they'll never know what they missed so how do you figure there's going to be an issue? If a railbird notices the foul and the homeroom player has missed it, they are likely to get the word out to him before he shoots anyway. If it's the road player that sleeps on the foul, the railbird is not likely to ever get involved. If there are stakehorses involved who are paying attention and notice the foul, you can be quite sure they'll let their player know in time to take the ball-in-hand, if by chance they miss it.