Losing The Auidence From Missed Shots

[8-ball bernie]

here is what i see when i look into the future for the i.p.t. i see the greatest, most professional, incredibley fantastically run tournament ever. i see mr. trudue as a complete success and deno andrews as the best director in billiard history. now, with that said, i think there needs to be one BIG change.
that change is the size of the pockets. it is a known fact that people who do not like pool, who will be tuning in, and people who love pool, who have paid $75 a ticket, not including air fare to get there, will be highly bored and dissapointed in many, many ,many, many, missed shots. mark my words, that as sure as i'm typing this now, the excitment will be gone, due to the fact that the pockets are tightened. people say, "if you want skill, then tighten up the pockets" this may be true, however, if you want SHEER BORDEOM tighten up the pockets as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! let us not forget that entertainment is part of sports, and if there is no entertainment, it will be dull and die. if you want to make this only about skill, i suggest a table that is 10x20 feet with 2 and a half inch pockets, although a game of 8-ball may take 7 hours, the one who wins it will have a lot of skill, are you getting my point?????? straight pool went off the air for one reason, IT'S BORING TO WATCH! 5x10 tables ceased to exist for one reason, SHOOTERS WERE MISSING, and then games went TOO SLOW. i must say it again, open the pockets. this will not only speed up the game, but the shotmaking from bustamante,duel,friend, and strickland will amaze, and get ratings up, and tons of applause from the live auidence, with heads shaking in disbelief from celebritys in attendence. i will rest my case, while everyone discusses this VERY important issue. i feel it is extremly important for the long run of the I.PT. i would hate, for people in 2007 say "hey, does anyone know why the I.P.T. failed?" and someone writing back, "yes, the pockets were so small, that each game took 15 mins. thus the auidence tuned out. and as a final thought, if the pockets were big, everyone would have the SAME advantage, so make e'm big, it's all even for anyone, let the fantastically amazing shots overwhelm the world, and may the I.P.T. make pool serious and thrilling.

 

[macguy]

here is what i see when i look into the future for the i.p.t. i see the greatest, most professional, incredibley fantastically run tournament ever. i see mr. trudue as a complete success and deno andrews as the best director in billiard history. now, with that said, i think there needs to be one BIG change.
that change is the size of the pockets. it is a known fact that people who do not like pool, who will be tuning in, and people who love pool, who have paid $75 a ticket, not including air fare to get there, will be highly bored and dissapointed in many, many ,many, many, missed shots. mark my words, that as sure as i'm typing this now, the excitment will be gone, due to the fact that the pockets are tightened. people say, "if you want skill, then tighten up the pockets" this may be true, however, if you want SHEER BORDEOM tighten up the pockets as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! let us not forget that entertainment is part of sports, and if there is no entertainment, it will be dull and die. if you want to make this only about skill, i suggest a table that is 10x20 feet with 2 and a half inch pockets, although a game of 8-ball may take 7 hours, the one who wins it will have a lot of skill, are you getting my point?????? straight pool went off the air for one reason, IT'S BORING TO WATCH! 5x10 tables ceased to exist for one reason, SHOOTERS WERE MISSING, and then games went TOO SLOW. i must say it again, open the pockets. this will not only speed up the game, but the shotmaking from bustamante,duel,friend, and strickland will amaze, and get ratings up, and tons of applause from the live auidence, with heads shaking in disbelief from celebritys in attendence. i will rest my case, while everyone discusses this VERY important issue. i feel it is extremly important for the long run of the I.PT. i would hate, for people in 2007 say "hey, does anyone know why the I.P.T. failed?" and someone writing back, "yes, the pockets were so small, that each game took 15 mins. thus the auidence tuned out. and as a final thought, if the pockets were big, everyone would have the SAME advantage, so make e'm big, it's all even for anyone, let the fantastically amazing shots overwhelm the world, and may the I.P.T. make pool serious and thrilling.

I think it may be the opposite. Missed balls makes the game more exciting it creates a level of tension. The most common comment you hear from non players is it looks so easy when you watch, adding to the boring factor. In fact even in the matches on ESPN there will be 4 or 5 balls still on the table and the commentator will say "They should get out from here" and the player does. The game looks like nothing and unimpressive as they never seem to miss. The shot on the day highlight is often something like a 9 on the break, everything else is so uneventful. Easy pockets are good for the local pool room to increase the enjoyment of the amateur player who just wants to have a beer and hit a few balls but not for the pro's.

 

[onepocketchump]

I am going to call BS on this one Bernie. I watched the World Championships on 4.25" pockets and while it was clear that the pockets were TOUGH it was equally clear that running out was that more exciting to watch.

Watching Wu run out the last five racks, knowing how tight the pockets were, was one of the most exciting things I have seen in pool in a LONG time.

Here is what I envision.

I see people watching raptly to see who is going to miss under the tough conditions and the pressure. I see those same people going to the pool rooms and bars and playing on looser equipment and missing and therefore appreciating how tough the PROS have it even more.

They don't make the cup bigger in golf so you see more shots going in. The net isn't lowered in tennis, and the fence isn't brought in in pro baseball for more homeruns. The professional game in sports is supposed to be the toughest conditions against the best competitors.

I guarantee you that if the game is presented correctly then the audience will certainly appreciate it. Couple that with do or die shots where a hundred grand is on the line and you will certainly see the public watching.

In the old days, pool players regularly ran hundreds on 5x10 tables with tight pockets. The matches were standing room only and the match reports were front page news.

I don't agree that big pockets make it even for everyone. If I am a better shotmaker than you are then I get rewarded with smaller pockets and you get punished. With big pockets you get rewarded for sloppy play and I get punished because it's easier for you. Tight pockets will seperate the players according to who has the most skill. And the most skilled players will definitely RUN OUT enough to keep the audiences in the game. You are NOT going to see 15 minute games because of players missing balls. You may see them because of safety battles but I suspect that good' ole editing will take care of that.

John

John

 

[shoutout33]

Ditto...

I agree with John and Mac on this one too. In 9-ball tourneys, its nothing for the pros to run out, so when they actually miss, it's like, "How in the world did they miss that shot?!?" This is going to be the toughest level of pool conditions on the planet and the best players are and or will shine for a reason. Yes. So far, the IPT seems to be geared towards the HOF's, but it's not like today's pros are a pushover either. It's really going to show you whose the best. And we might get some suprises along the way too.

 

[rackmsuckr]

I agree with John and Mac on this one too. In 9-ball tourneys, its nothing for the pros to run out, so when they actually miss, it's like, "How in the world did they miss that shot?!?" This is going to be the toughest level of pool conditions on the planet and the best players are and or will shine for a reason. Yes. So far, the IPT seems to be geared towards the HOF's, but it's not like today's pros are a pushover either. It's really going to show you whose the best. And we might get some suprises along the way too.

I have to agree too. 4 1/2" just isn't that tight. If they have Diamonds, they could seem tighter and hang more balls because of the shelf. Most of us are used to NORMAL sized pockets, not the 4 3/4" - 5" like in the WPBA, which when combined with new cloth makes them seem like buckets. Tight would be 4" which are the case in a lot of spots, especially in CA. You will have to be careful, but don't psych yourself out over it - you should still be able to run out.

Linda

 

[Bob Jewett]

... (I) think there needs to be one BIG change.
(That) change is the size of the pockets....

C'mon, Bernie. You must be jossing us. Or maybe you're afraid of the pockets. There's no shame in fear as long as you meet it and defeat it. Good luck at the tournament.

 

[rackmsuckr]

but the shotmaking from bustamante,duel,friend, and strickland will amaze, and get ratings up, and tons of applause from the live auidence, with heads shaking in disbelief from celebritys in attendence.

Bernie,

I thought you were more in my league when you first started posting, but now I see you are in Bustamante's and Strickland's. I don't think they are worrying about tighter pockets.

Linda

 

[SlimShafty]

I agree with all the others, some of the most exciting matches I have seen are with local league players that miss a heck of lot more then pros. I also like watching players get into a tight chess match with safeties and incredible hits after safeties, it's not all about the run out.

Missed shots can only lead to more drama and more excitement and make the better shooters look like heroes, run outs become more thrilling and really mean something. If it's to easy it's boring to me.

I would have went with 4" pockets, Many of the worlds best players will always take palying on tight pockets, you have 4" pockets and the same 10 guys will always find there way to the top.

Missed shots don't bore me, I kind of enjoy seeing the ball rattle out, ok especially when it's my opponent

 

[LastTwo]

LOL Bernie, what size pockets do your normally play on? 5"??? 4.5 inch pockets are huge. But pocket size doesn't matter so much as how the pockets are cut. There are some tables at my poolroom that have 5" pockets but they are cut so funny they play like 4" pockets when you shoot a shot on or near the rail. Anyways, 4.5 inch pockets should NOT have any negative effect on good players. Anyone who struggles with that pocket size playing 8-ball most definately does not belong in the IPT, I will guarantee you that.

 

[vagabond]

Most of us are used to NORMAL sized pockets, not the 4 3/4" - 5" like in the WPBA, which when combined with new cloth makes them seem like buckets.

Linda

That issue has been a confusion to me for many years.I heard similar things before .Many people said that the pockets will be tighter by the third day.I thought that first 2 days on a new cloth u have the cue ball & object ball sliding, there by missing the pocket.Once the cloth gets old the `sliders `will not happen and the balls go into the pockets.My experience was different from others.It is very confusing to me.Cheers

 

[JustPlay]

4.5 inch pocket are not that small. Only one ball has to go in it. Correct me if I am wrong, but are pool balls only 2 1/4 inches in width. If so, that leaves about an additional 2+ inches to get into the pocket. If the pockets were shaped like the pockets on a snooker table, then we would have something to be worried about. Besides were not talking about rank amatures here, these are top pool players in the country and in the world.

When was the last time on tv or at any event that pro pool players missed like a bunch of amatures? Yea, I can't remember either.

 

[AuntyDan]

4.5 inch pocket are not that small. Only one ball has to go in it.

Interestingly the game you are playing makes a difference as to whether "only one ball has to go in". For 9 Ball, One Pocket or Straight Pool this is fine, as you can always combo in a ball hanging over a pocket blocking the path of the object ball you want to hit, but in 8 Ball if the hanging ball is your opponent's you have more limited options. In USA/BCA rules you can make an opponent's ball with your own ball, but unless you make your own ball in the same shot or get the cue ball into lock-up safety position in the same stroke you risk selling out.

 

[JustPlay]

Interestingly the game you are playing makes a difference as to whether "only one ball has to go in". For 9 Ball, One Pocket or Straight Pool this is fine, as you can always combo in a ball hanging over a pocket blocking the path of the object ball you want to hit, but in 8 Ball if the hanging ball is your opponent's you have more limited options. In USA/BCA rules you can make an opponent's ball with your own ball, but unless you make your own ball in the same shot or get the cue ball into lock-up safety position in the same stroke you risk selling out.

As far as stratagty goes, your correct. I just talking about the original thread in relation to missed shots because of small pockets.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Even if the pockets were 4" the players would learn to make a high percentage of outs.

Having learned 8-ball on English pool style tables with 3.5" and smaller rounded pockets which have about 1mm margin for error on rail shots, 4.5" still seem like buckets.

However, it requires playing more for straighter shot position, and so a lot more pressure on making good shape.

 

[sjm]

I strongly disagree with the argument presented in the initial post.

In individual sports, it is well understood that when it's time to detemine who the most elite are, tougher conditions befit the occasion.

That why the US Open golf is always played on a very tough course and the winning score tends to be near par. Nobody says "man, these guys can't make birdies to save their lives." It's just the opposite, viewers know that only the great ones are able to survive the regorous test. The US Open tennis has a field of 128 and you have to win three sets out of five in each of seven matches. Tall order? You bet, but the fans understand this and admire the one that is up to the challenge even more. It's why the 2005 WPC was contested on tight equipment, too, and, at least for me, was the greatest world championship pool event of the nine ball era.

In all individual sports, fans are smart enough to understand that the elite are the ones that pass the stiffest tests. Making the runout special again is exactly what pool needs.

 

[Lupo]

I was out of pool for a number of years. Boy was I surprised...and disappointed...when I returned to find the rule changes designed to make pool more interesting to lay people and also to make pool better for television. I guess it was well meant. But do you have to ruin something to save it? I hope we can reclaim the great game pool in the future. Moving to tighter pockets is a step in that direction. People who are "educated" in pool will not get bored. I predict that as people (and some players) become educated they will even find one-pocket interesting to watch. I also predict that some day in the not too distant future large purses ($500,000 or more) will become commonplace. I hope at the same time that we'll drop "ball-in-hand" and other rules misguidedly designed to make the game more exciting and interesting. Pool was the perfect game already...let's not ruin it by catering to the lowest common denominator. ..in the end that will only destroy pool.

 

[Cornerman]

that change is the size of the pockets. it is a known fact that people who do not like pool, who will be tuning in, and people who love pool, who have paid $75 a ticket, not including air fare to get there, will be highly bored and dissapointed in many, many ,many, many, missed shots. .

I have to believe that the professionals will get used to the pockets quickly and will have enough runouts to satisfy everyone.

From my own pitiful experience, I recently played a tournament on what I felt was unfair equipment. The pockets were extremely tight, and they spit balls back when you hit the leather tang/apron protecting the pocket iron. And, there were a lot of missed shots by us amateurs. But, in the end, the last four players standing were getting plenty of runouts. And for some reason, there were more people watching this late in an amateur event then I'd ever seen at any amateur event (except nationals and such). The people who were watching were a mix of pool players and non-players. That is, I think the general public was represented. And the common feedback was that they had never seen pool played so well. That was because most players couldn't make balls on the the tables, but here we were dominating those tough tables in the end, after we had a good opportunity to get used to them.

So, I think that if this IPT goes off, maybe tougher standards will be seen in the rec. rooms as a result, less sloppy tables will be seen, and the general pool playing public and the general public (in general) will finally see just how good a great player can be.

Fred <~~~ wants all bar tables "tightened up"

 

[T411]

I strongly disagree with the argument presented in the initial post.

In individual sports, it is well understood that when it's time to detemine who the most elite are, tougher conditions befit the occasion.

In all individual sports, fans are smart enough to understand that the elite are the ones that pass the stiffest tests. Making the runout special again is exactly what pool needs.

I hope we can reclaim the great game pool in the future. Moving to tighter pockets is a step in that direction. People who are "educated" in pool will not get bored. I predict that as people (and some players) become educated they will even find one-pocket interesting to watch. I also predict that some day in the not too distant future large purses ($500,000 or more) will become commonplace. I hope at the same time that we'll drop "ball-in-hand" and other rules misguidedly designed to make the game more exciting and interesting. Pool was the perfect game already...let's not ruin it by catering to the lowest common denominator. ..in the end that will only destroy pool.

Baseball would be the most boring sport ever if you did not know all the games within the game; how the pitch count effects what the hitter and pitcher are trying to do, how it also effects what the base runners are doing, what goes on between the catcher and pitcher, what goes on between base runners and the pitchers, what goes on between the defense and the base runners, ect, ect, ect.

Millions of people in this country watch baseball even though the best batters in the game fail to hit the ball more than 7 out of every 10 times.

I agree with Lupo and sjm "People who are "educated" in pool will not get bored", "fans are smart enough to understand that the elite are the ones that pass the stiffest tests".