Lost a nice post made by a legend/world champ...

lfigueroa said:
Well, I guess there would still be posts from people like you ;-)

Lou Figueroa
sorry I took everyone out of my bitbin
back you go, Petey
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Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!! I will not sleep tonight lol
:killingme: Sorry you cleared your bin also. Gave you a chance to throw
one of your cheap shots
 
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macguy said:
Lets face it, he has been a member for like 4 years and he has only posted a hand full of times with very little to say; most of his posts are one liners. There are tons of interesting threads on here everyday he could comments on and drop a pearl or two of wisdom but he chooses not to.
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He chooses to speak when he wishes to and feels the need instead of attempting to add in 2 cents to every thread. I actually respect that and find it prefferable to know that when you see one if his posts it is something he chose to post instead of habitual clicking of the "reply" button.
 
Celtic said:
He chooses to speak when he wishes to and feels the need instead of attempting to add in 2 cents to every thread. I actually respect that and find it prefferable to know that when you see one if his posts it is something he chose to post instead of habitual clicking of the "reply" button.
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Pull up his history of postings and they are mostly one liners with not much to say about pool. A lot of "Hi how are you stuff".

http://forums.azbilliards.com/search.php?searchid=6623065&pp=25
 
can't we just get along? i have really enjoyed 98% of the threads and even the best thread ever posted on any forum, that being the "funny/pic" thread. look at the number of PAGES! besides having a "funny" for the day, look at all the knowledge of the game passed around on a daily basis. just because of one or two people that march to a different drum is no reason to let this forum slide all the way down the slope. for my entire life (and i am an old guy), i always remembered, "there is always one in the crowd". let's leave it at that and continue with what is the best pool forum ever, IMO.......everyone have a great day! :thumbup:
 
OK I am going to take a different spin on Ray's post, one that will probably get me flamed.

Though I agree with the general idea of his statement, if you review his book (99 critical shots in pool) he covers the basics of stance, bridging ect.

So I ask, if he truly has this opinion of the basics, why does he cover it in his book?




PoolSharkAllen said:
Here's the comment made by Ray Martin:

Originally Posted by ghostball
Well it is about time someone woke up,i agree, over a period of 50 yrs i have seen champions and great players stand differant they do not tilt there heads the same and arms some straight down some out a little and some in a little, the only thing that counts is how he or she strikes the cue ball. there is no magic bullet to playing better pool it is work.
Ray Martin​
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I agree 100%!!!!!!!

lfigueroa said:
Deleting threads should be a very last resort and used as a rare exception. Unfortunately, AZ does appear to be on the exact slippery slope you alluded to and losing traction, as we speak.

Speaking just for myself, I have found myself with less desire to post here lately. I won't go so far as to ascribe that to the increasing gay abandon with which threads are getting deleted, but it has had an impact -- I mean, why bother posting if what you write can just be whacked at someones whim (and whacked without explanation, at that).

I believe that it would be a poor, poor choice to try and keep every post and discussion on this board at the level of pablum. For the most part, people here are adults, contributors, and members of a community -- they are passionate about every aspect of pool and will disagree about shots, strategy, equipment, fundamentals, instruction, and anything else related to the game you can think of. And that is as it should be.

Lou Figueroa
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Very well stated and I'm in total agreement, hopefully the right people are reading what you wrote and give it some thought.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
... if you review his book (99 critical shots in pool) he covers the basics of stance, bridging ect.

So I ask, if he truly has this opinion of the basics, why does he cover it in his book?
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I took a lesson from Ray many years ago. One of my questions was whether he would now (as of the time of the lesson) want to change anything in the book (which was at least a dozen years old at that point). His answer was that he would no longer present what is a "proper" stance in the same way. He had come to the belief that it should be more open to personal variation.
 
Thanks for the clarification.

You asked him a great question.

AtLarge said:
I took a lesson from Ray many years ago. One of my questions was whether he would now (as of the time of the lesson) want to change anything in the book (which was at least a dozen years old at that point). His answer was that he would no longer present what is a "proper" stance in the same way. He had come to the belief that it should be more open to personal variation.
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AtLarge said:
I took a lesson from Ray many years ago. One of my questions was whether he would now (as of the time of the lesson) want to change anything in the book (which was at least a dozen years old at that point). His answer was that he would no longer present what is a "proper" stance in the same way. He had come to the belief that it should be more open to personal variation.
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I was STUNNED at that section of the book. Perhaps it's because I come from a snooker background, but I found recommending not getting low on the shoot to be, well, controversial.

I found the book disappointing tbh.
 
lfigueroa said:
Deleting threads should be a very last resort and used as a rare exception. Unfortunately, AZ does appear to be on the exact slippery slope you alluded to and losing traction, as we speak.

Speaking just for myself, I have found myself with less desire to post here lately. I won't go so far as to ascribe that to the increasing gay abandon with which threads are getting deleted, but it has had an impact -- I mean, why bother posting if what you write can just be whacked at someones whim (and whacked without explanation, at that).

I believe that it would be a poor, poor choice to try and keep every post and discussion on this board at the level of pablum. For the most part, people here are adults, contributors, and members of a community -- they are passionate about every aspect of pool and will disagree about shots, strategy, equipment, fundamentals, instruction, and anything else related to the game you can think of. And that is as it should be.

Lou Figueroa
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Couldn't agree more.
 
mosconiac said:
I said in a recent thread that deleting threads & posts is a slippery slope...once you start, you don't know where to stop. It can become vindictive & abused by popular posters. This "tool" has been the death of many boards...I've seen it several times.

Once people get tired of seeing their posts (that take time & effort to draft & submit) being deleted frivolously...they leave.

Wake up Mods...we are on that trail into the sunset.

BTW, AZB web traffic is down 14% over the last month!
Also, time spent on the site is down 66%!!
Page views are down 56%!!!
Think that's just coincidence?!?!?
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I'd noticed the board becoming quieter recently - it seemed like there were a dearth of good quality threads, and not related to any of PP's posts. Boards NEED argument and disagreement, at least to an extent.

I'd never noticed the mods on here before - which can only be a good thing. I've used boards in the past that are so modded they become unusable. One is actually quite sinister.
 
While Ray may have posted this, he says the exact opposite in his own book, 99 Critical Shots. The first chapter speaks to the importance of good fundamentals. People who don't believe fundamentals are important will likely struggle with consistency...unless perhaps you play 8-10 hrs a day...FOR YEARS...and even then you may or may not play well. Good mechanics are a stepping stone to a better game, and imo are the first step towards a confident stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

PoolSharkAllen said:
Here's the comment made by Ray Martin:

Originally Posted by ghostball
Well it is about time someone woke up,i agree, over a period of 50 yrs i have seen champions and great players stand differant they do not tilt there heads the same and arms some straight down some out a little and some in a little, the only thing that counts is how he or she strikes the cue ball. there is no magic bullet to playing better pool it is work.
Ray Martin​
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AtLarge...Just FYI, we have been teaching "nontraditional" (or what we choose to call "natural stances") for more than 25 years. As all good instructors know...there is no one "right" stance for everyone. A good stance is balanced, comfortable, a tripod, with free movement of the cue along your range of motion. Nice to see Ray come to our side of the fence! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

AtLarge said:
I took a lesson from Ray many years ago. One of my questions was whether he would now (as of the time of the lesson) want to change anything in the book (which was at least a dozen years old at that point). His answer was that he would no longer present what is a "proper" stance in the same way. He had come to the belief that it should be more open to personal variation.
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We know who Ray is...he doesn't hide his identity. What we want to know is WHO ARE YOU? Why are you so afraid to come out from hiding behind your internet anonymity? Most of us here still don't think you even play pool.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

PocketPoint5 said:
Well I guess I should have seen that coming, considering they deleted his post like they didn't even care who he was.
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What is wrong with having somebody who shakes it up now and then, and some controversy can be fun, as long as it’s not attacking somebody or being mean.

The problem is, if you just ban and get rid of everyone that disagrees or does not go along with the main core group, then everyone there, thinks and posts the same way. That then becomes an incest group and the gene pool will eventually die of its own boredom and stagnation.

Mark Twain said, if we all think alike, then there cannot be a horse race.
 
Scott Lee said:
While Ray may have posted this, he says the exact opposite in his own book, 99 Critical Shots. The first chapter speaks to the importance of good fundamentals. People who don't believe fundamentals are important will likely struggle with consistency...unless perhaps you play 8-10 hrs a day...FOR YEARS...and even then you may or may not play well. Good mechanics are a stepping stone to a better game, and imo are the first step towards a confident stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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IMO, people like PocketPoint have completely misinterpreted Ray Martin's comment.

Ray is not advocating that players not learn the proper fundamentals from qualified instructors. Ray is simply saying that over time some players and even champion players have modified their stroke or stance or grip in a way that uniquely suits them.

I think Fran Crimi's post from another thread says it best on why good fundamentals are so important:
Sure, anybody can learn to play with bad form with repetition. They can also learn to deal with body aches resulting from shooting with their little 'quirks,' and fatigue from standing for so many hours off-balance in a tournament. Sure, anyone can teach themselves to play well like that.

But why? Is torture and fatigue the smarter way to go than efficiency and balance?

Anyone ever take golf or tennis lessons? Ever listen to the commentary during a golf or tennis tournament? It's all about form. Not only does good form maximize your performance level, but your body will thank you for it in later years.​
 
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Curly Howard said:
What is wrong with having somebody who shakes it up now and then, and some controversy can be fun, as long as it’s not attacking somebody or being mean.

The problem is, if you just ban and get rid of everyone that disagrees or does not go along with the main core group, then everyone there, thinks and posts the same way. That then becomes an incest group and the gene pool will eventually die of its own boredom and stagnation.
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That's a rather apt metaphor for what's happening with the game in general...
 
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