Low-Ballers Need Not Apply!

ridewiththewind said:
. . . . But I am allowed to my view point....and I am also allowed NOT to be insulted for having it.

Lisa

Absolutely. Speaking for myself , I have no intention of insulting you for it. Appologies if taken that way.

I guess my opinion is one more of suggestion to you. I've been dealing online both personally and in business for maybe 15-20 years now. And while the interent has offered huge potential for commercial gains and exposure , it conversely exposes you to wider range of people and opinions. Sometimes for good , some for naught.

I suppose what I'm saying is , especially for those who think their time is ever so valueable ;) , it isn't worth your time to feel so emotionally attacked by a bad offer. Your probably spending more time thinking about it than the person who made it. :D It's just not worth any mental anguish you may be feeling over it. It's just part of internet trading. Really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things so don;t let it bring you down.

Jay. :)
 
RRfireblade said:
Absolutely. Speaking for myself , I have no intention of insulting you for it. Appologies if taken that way.

I guess my opinion is one more of suggestion to you. I've been dealing online both personally and in business for maybe 15-20 years now. And while the interent has offered huge potential for commercial gains and exposure , it conversely exposes you to wider range of people and opinions. Sometimes for good , some for naught.

I suppose what I'm saying is , especially for those who think their time is ever so valueable ;) , it isn't worth your time to feel so emotionally attacked by a bad offer. Your probably spending more time thinking about it than the person who made it. :D It's just not worth any mental anguish you may be feeling over it. It's just part of internet trading. Really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things so don;t let it bring you down.

Jay. :)


It was actually not your post that I found insulting. It's all good. :)

Lisa
 
I have only had dealings with one person on this forum so far, KOINNKID, Troy, and that was on ebay and it was an excellent transaction.
What is starting to worry me is that way that things seem to be goin here who the hell is going to give somebody a shot at something they have no prior dealings with. I fully understand the reasons why. I read them on here almost every other day.
It sickens me that its turning out to be the same as anywhere else in life, a few assholes ruin it for everyone.

Had to vent..sorry, I feel better now.
 
stuffs

If you’re a real buyer/collector of fine cues, then you would know what a realistic offer would be, ie, that number that would be worthy of consideration. By real, I mean, you’ve done your homework, bought, sold, and traded with your collection. Chances are, that guy or gal would come with say 10 below your asking price. If on the other hand, the
Offer is 20-30 and upward percent below asking price, this is from a person that is unfamiliar with the world of fine cues, and should be viewed as such. He himself, were he a legitimate buyer, would realize the ridiculous offer would be viewed as just that, and would not want to harm his rep with such an offer, even to that single seller, whom may or may not know (has no relevance to the serious collector, he would not want to insult).
It’s like the folks who see, say your high end Gina, and say, gee, that must have cost you
A thousand bucks! Get my drift? Side note: Lisa… view those low ball offers as just that, unfamiliar to the world, and use that as an opportunity to reply in a kind matter, and perhaps that person will gain from your immense knowledge, and perhaps will soon be actually buying those correctly priced cues.. no harm, no foul. Brett
 
Why would someone ever be insulted at something someone said to them over the internet, be it name calling or a offer on a cue?

This thread gets the big LOL.
 
Low ball offers...no biggy. I don't begrudge anyone for trying to get a great deal on something. When I have something for sale and recieve a "low ball offer" I usually counter that offer and see what happens. It's all part of buying and selling. I have gotten some amazing deals over the years and at times I have given some amazing deals, timing is real important.

The worst thing in selling is having no offers at all, without offers there is no potential sale or purchase. If one choses to buy and sell one should enjoy the negotiation process.
 
The idea of "fair market price" is obscure in the pool cue industry. There aren't enough transactions in custom cues to determine a reliable market price. Ask any five people here on AZ to value a specific custom cue and you'll get five different answers that vary by 10% to 15% or more. So, when I come and offer 25% below asking price, I'm not actually expecting to get it at that price; I'm just sending a signal that I value the cue below the seller's asking price. At this point, if the seller doesn't want mess around with a deal, then by all means just say no... However, in most cases, I would expect a counter offer, of say, 10% off. Depending on the situation, this very well might be sufficient for the buyer. But it wouldn't be prudent for the buyer to initially request a 10% price concession because the buyer would counter with a significantly lower discount, like 5%....

It's just a game. I really cannot believe that people are getting upset by this. Our culture is built upon values of self-interest and expediency. This is the way business is conducted. If the cue industry were efficient and perfectly competitive, then I would definitely agree that it would be out of line to try and move prices around. But when there are only a couple buyers and sellers, then there is plenty of room for negotiation.

I don't even want to touch on the other side of this issue. But, I wouldn't have to "low ball" if the seller had his/her prices reasonable to begin with... But, I'm not going to condemn anyone here.

Come on people. Is it really that unfashionably tiresome to just say NO to a deal that appears to be unfavorable?

-Shane
 
Wow did I insult you? that was not my intention! I had no idea you could give as good as you get!



then you want me to kiss ya?

your idea of a low end offer?

maybe you should try and relax - take a couple of deep breathes.
 
kvinbrwr said:
I really only got one offer with a dollar amount, that was early Sunday night before the bidding began to take off, that offer was 18K and it was from an AZ member. What I really got was a lot of was people that were convinced that I wouldn't let the auction run it's course and wanted to argue with me when I told them I wouldn't. One AZ member was very insistant that I was going to end the auction early and deprive him from his right to buy it, got quite angry at me when I kept telling him the way it was going to go, and he dropped out of the bidding at about 20K. This auction got to 20K so fast, that the low-ballers really didn't get a chance. An interesting thing was that until the auction reached 20K, all my contacts were about the authenticity of the cue, from people that doubted (and didn't have the knowledge to know for themselves) that the stick was a real Gus. After the bidding took off, the majority of my questions had to do with the procedures of paying and delivery, security, etc. Interestingly, I spoke at length with both of my top 2 bidders, and neither really had one question about the cue itself, they were very secure in what they were seeing. I don't have a hit counter on my auctions, I wish I had one on the Szam auction, I had over 1000 "watchers" at the end, and Earthlink charged me $256 extra dollars for going way over my quota for web traffic on the pictures, I had never come close to that limit before. I think had the bidding gone slower early, I would have had more "buy-it-now" offers, by Monday, with 6 days left in the auction, the bidding was already well past what the "buy-it-now" folks would have offered anyway.

My 2 cents on this sellers expectation of buyer's behavior thread. Tate weighed in with the take the "personal" out and I think that is a great advice. Disney (used to be better at it) indoctrinates their employees that they are ALL cast members with a role to play, so when they interact with a customer it is their character interacting and they should react like their character reacts, rather than how they personally would react. I'll admit, sometimes its hard, like when someone has just sent you their 15 eMail in a row claiming that you are a liar and you will end your auction early. Every offer is an opportunity to do business, why be offended?

Kevin,
If that offer of 18k was from an AZ dealer, he thought you were green and I hope he offered a can of K-Y with the 18k. (don't say who, I don't want to know) If you had seen the talk here you would have seen that the experienced more honest people were guessing 40-50-60k.
Also with all the ebaying of higher end cues, all of the auctions seem to end early. That particular individual probably thought your cue would do the same.

JV
 
classiccues said:
Kevin,
If that offer of 18k was from an AZ dealer, he thought you were green and I hope he offered a can of K-Y with the 18k. (don't say who, I don't want to know) If you had seen the talk here you would have seen that the experienced more honest people were guessing 40-50-60k.
Also with all the ebaying of higher end cues, all of the auctions seem to end early. That particular individual probably thought your cue would do the same.

JV

JV

It was from an AZ dealer, and, as we are discussing in this thread, he was under no obligation to offer me retail, wholesale, fair-market or anything else. In the case of my auctions, it's easy, offer me what you want, the auction is going to run to the end. I think in this particular case, the dealer would of course been delighted if I accepted, but was looking for a counter and some negotiations, and was somewhat frustrated by my response to offers while my auctions are running, "if it that number wins the auction, I'll be happy to sell it for that. I invite you to bid and win". That particular person thought I was green, as I am to the cue collecting world, lucily for me and my consignor, I'm not so green at the auction business, and what his 18K offer told me was I had a cue that would go for at least double that. Discovering AZ and the Szam thread during the auction process just added a dimension for us sellers. I've sold collectibles that have no doubt caused a stir in the community that collected that item, but seeing that stir discussed was new for me, and fun.

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating I think. When we contemplated selling this cue on eBay, we were in agreement that the auction would be the easy part, and the hassle would start as soon as the auction ended. Dealing with Will Prout on a transaction of this size was totally comfortable, safe and easy, and for that I'll always be grateful and respect that man.

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
JV

It was from an AZ dealer, and, as we are discussing in this thread, he was under no obligation to offer me retail, wholesale, fair-market or anything else. In the case of my auctions, it's easy, offer me what you want, the auction is going to run to the end. I think in this particular case, the dealer would of course been delighted if I accepted, but was looking for a counter and some negotiations, and was somewhat frustrated by my response to offers while my auctions are running, "if it that number wins the auction, I'll be happy to sell it for that. I invite you to bid and win". That particular person thought I was green, as I am to the cue collecting world, lucily for me and my consignor, I'm not so green at the auction business, and what his 18K offer told me was I had a cue that would go for at least double that. Discovering AZ and the Szam thread during the auction process just added a dimension for us sellers. I've sold collectibles that have no doubt caused a stir in the community that collected that item, but seeing that stir discussed was new for me, and fun.

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating I think. When we contemplated selling this cue on eBay, we were in agreement that the auction would be the easy part, and the hassle would start as soon as the auction ended. Dealing with Will Prout on a transaction of this size was totally comfortable, safe and easy, and for that I'll always be grateful and respect that man.

Kevin

Kevin,
While I agree in principle to your first statement, you need to be more familiar with the business and practices of cue dealing to know how low that offer was. You are a better man than I, it's refreshing to see someone with the integrity to run an auction to close. Like I mentioned those big cues hardly ever run till the end. It was alot of fun for us watching.
You won't get a better collector than Will. If the ACA or ICA ever puts in a collector to the Hall of Fame, I hope Will is the first.

JV
 
The Beginner said:
Hey guys i heard efren reyes will be retiring this year..is that true?

Well if thats true, then in the spirit of the thread, I'll give'em a hundred for his cue and case... :D

JV
 
That's Funny

classiccues said:
Well if thats true, then in the spirit of the thread, I'll give'em a hundred for his cue and case... :D

JV

LOL LOL

I didn't know the 18K was low until he made it. I only know from auction experience that they reason they are offering now is they think it will go higher if it runs its course, and so no matter how tempting, you have to say no. I know from experience that the early offers will be low balls and was thrilled, knowing that, when we were offered 18K.

Kevin
 
"some of us (most) will list a cue at a price that leaves built-in room for negotiation....that is often part of the fun"

That's just BS! Your selling anything to either make, or recover money. Not have fun! Jesus, go write a Hallmark card or something.

I do agree with absurdly low offers are just a nuisance, but it's that 'built in room' that invites that crap. For whatever reason you are selling a cue (or most things) pick a price and stick with it. If it doesn't sell (because of lack of demand, or more often, an overly optimistic idea of it's value), be prepared to meet the market.

Again, if you are the one leaving room for hagglers, don't whine when they come knockin'. That's the other 'part of the fun'...
 
half fast bankr said:
"some of us (most) will list a cue at a price that leaves built-in room for negotiation....that is often part of the fun"

That's just BS! Your selling anything to either make, or recover money. Not have fun! Jesus, go write a Hallmark card or something.

I do agree with absurdly low offers are just a nuisance, but it's that 'built in room' that invites that crap. For whatever reason you are selling a cue (or most things) pick a price and stick with it. If it doesn't sell (because of lack of demand, or more often, an overly optimistic idea of it's value), be prepared to meet the market.

Again, if you are the one leaving room for hagglers, don't whine when they come knockin'. That's the other 'part of the fun'...

It might seem like BS to you, but I can assure you that to a large number of collectors, dealers and users, buying and selling, collecting, and trading cues is a hobby exactly because it is fun. Sorry but I'm having trouble seeing the sense of telling folks that they aren't having fun at what they do for fun. If it's not fun for you, enough said, but that's on you. My return on investment of my time in the cue game is meager compared to my other pursuits, I'm here doing it, precisely because I think it is fun.
 
Collecting & trading is a blast for me too! You went off the point of my post just a weeee bit there, partner. Try to stick with the topic. Here's a hint, it's in quotation marks....
 
Sorry about that, I was responding to the person who said this

"That's just BS! Your selling anything to either make, or recover money. Not have fun! Jesus, go write a Hallmark card or something."

As I (and I think many others) are selling and buying cues exactly to have fun. As I said, maybe not fun for you, and that's OK.
 
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