I agree with everything you've said here. Let me point out one thing - the reason I did this "test" was to see if ABS might work as a substitute for Tomahawk. I liked Tomahawk. Again, the test results surprised me - ABS seemed relatively indestructable. I can tell I'm treading on thin ice here, perhaps I should not have mentioned the Tomahawk result, only the ABS result.
Low deflection ferrule material for Carbon shafts.
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I respect your input but, believe me, you don't need to freeze Tomahawk in nitrogen to shatter it. I'm talking about a cylindrical section, not a rod section. You probably have some Tomahawk, you can, in a matter of moments, do what I did, rather than surmise.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
You aren't really trading on thin ice, other than calling j2's integrity into question.
I haven't called anyone's integrity into question. Quite the opposite: j2pak words "I HIGHLY doubt that Tomahawk "shattered" bud. . . . you will have to forgive me if I am just a bit more than skeptical with regards to your claim." DD, your claim I called j2's integrity into question surprises me, it's like fake news. I just did a simple, informal test to see if ABS might be a good material for me to work with. I concluded it is a good material. It far surpassed my expectations. I said I also like Tomahawk, but that doesn't seem to satisfy anyone. Since I'm being pounced on, I'll point out some other qualities of ABS that I like: ABS is far less expensive, ABS comes in black and WHITE (not off white, some people prefer white), ABS comes in many sizes of rod and tube. These are simple facts, hope the roof doesn't cave in.
You are not treading on thin ice with me. We have no personal beef. I am simply pointing out a few observations based on my intimate knowledge of the product, including physical characteristic sheets from the manufacturer, and some rather "unscientific" tests that I performed on the material myself.
The material is not brittle. All of this being said, ANY material put under enough stress, can certainly experience failure, even catastrophic failure. My issue is the use of the word "shatter." Based on my knowledge of the material, I believe that is highly unlikely, and I stand by that statement.
Best regards
j2
dendweller
Well-known member
So are we ignoring the bigger story here, is abs really the same density of maple?
I bought ferrules from cueman years ago, that he sold as high action ferrules, good for replacing mucci ferrules.
I think we're saying that for the purpose of lower defection, they are pretty low.
I bought ferrules from cueman years ago, that he sold as high action ferrules, good for replacing mucci ferrules.
I think we're saying that for the purpose of lower defection, they are pretty low.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
What is a robogrip?
Pliers
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
dendweller
Well-known member
If that's true shouldn't be on the list?
After this morning's flak session, I went to my shop and repeated the informal test discussed above. Today I hammered on Tomahawk and ABS, only. The test results are different. Today I used threaded joint collars of similar size, made of black ABS and white Tomahawk (I have no more black). I first put ABS on the anvil, held it steady with a wooden dowel thru its id, and smacked it good with the large end of a 26 oz ball peen hammer. The hammer bounced off. I smacked it a couple more times and got the same result. Next I repeated that process with Tomahawk and got the same result. Then I smacked the Tomahawk several more time, firmly, and it did not fail. I then attacked the ABS again and smacked it repeatedly. The ABS did fail after about 7 or 8 blows I then smacked the Tomahawk collar several more times and it still didn't fail. I then repeated this test using a new threaded ABS joint collar and it similarly failed after about 7-8 impacts. So, allow me to clarify any misconceptions I may have created this morning. Tomahawk is strong as hell, stronger than ABS. I turn 79 in June and been around a lot of blocks; don't wish to be viewed as a bullshit*er at this stage in life. I don't know why the first test produced different results. I can only say that test was quickly done and done for the sole purpose of confirming the utility of ABS for cues, which it did to my satisfaction.
That is a mistake on my part. At that time I thought DZ's chart depicted measurements of density, and I posted what the density of ABS is. But, DZ's chart is not a density chart, it is a like a specific-gravity chart with a value of 1 assigned to maple. ABS is absent in DZ's chart but I believe we can fit it in by comparing it with PVC which does appear in DZ's chart. Specific gravity and density are similar, and I believe they're linearly related. In other words if a material's density is altered by a certain percentage, it's specific gravity would also be altered by that percentage. Hopefully someone with more brains than me will chime in on this. (The density of high impact ABS is about 1.0 gm/cm3, and the density of PVC is about 1.38 g/cm3, so the density of ABS is about 60% of the density of PVC. Assuming linearity, if PVC is assigned a value of 1.89 in DZ's chart, ABS would assume a value of 1.134 on DZ's chart (60% of the PVC value).
Let me just say I like ABS for reasons I stated above, and avoid more pissing matches. You were quick in another thread to identify the butt cap on a Mali cue as being ABS so you're not ignorant about its appropriateness for use in cues. Also you have cue building experience. How do you assess the machinability, scratch resistance, and finish adhesion of ABS? What? No answer?
I don't like them.
The question was: How do you assess the machinability, scratch resistance, and finish adhesion of ABS? Your answer is "I don't like them." Do you think anyone profited from that (non)answer? Here's where we are: ABS might be a great low deflection ferule material, based on it's density. I believe ABS might be valued at about 1.134 in DZ's chart (linked below), which is close to maple itself. True, that's guesswork on my part, and if no one clarifies that issue I'll send measurement and weight info to DZ that will allow him to fit ABS into his chart. You've aptly pointed out there's other ferule qualities which merit consideration - machinability, scratch resistance, finish adhesion - why not share some knowledge beyond "I don't like them."
https://dzcues.com/ferrules_4.html
You tested a joint collar , didn't you ?
For ferrules, I won't use them because I feel Hydex 202 and mason micarta are better .
Harder, better machinability as in higher melting temp .
Hydex polishes better and doesn't shows sanding marks as bad as ABS.
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